May I guess that your froum registration date is close to the date you started playing Raid? You are an early game player and you, sorry that I have to say so, talk about things you don't understand (yet).

You don't even understand, what a speed team is. Balltazer wanted to explain, that the nuker of his speed team with only 159 is exeptionally slow - but it still works. A speed team is not "use 4 attacking champs and make all of them as fast as possible, so they all get a turn before your opponents". A speed team is a team where one certain champ, like High Khatun or Apothecary, or Lyssandra, or Arbiter, or Gorgorab, or Seeker, or whoever has an ability like this, uses her speed and turnmeter buff onto the other teammembers, so they can go before the enemy even if they are as slow as 159 speed.

A speed team can be built from free champs. 

1. Khatun as speed buffer, free day 30 log-in reward. Or Diabolist, campaign farmable in stage 12.
2. Decrease def on all enemies before you attack. Warmaiden, farmable in campaign stage "the Deadlands"
3. Starter champ, obviously free obtainable by everybody

P.S. You still did not tell us wich champ, easily obtainable from green shards, would be better than the starter champs as first lvl 60.

There are too many people to respond to.   I have been playing a little over 2 months and I was soloing 12-6 a long time ago.   You don't need starter champs to do it.   I just tested it, all 3 of my level 60's can solo it.   I suspect a lot of my level 50's could as well.    1 farmable rare, 1 epic, 1 legendary.

You go for 12-3 for a slight improvement in silver.   But experience gives you energy which gives you more silver as well as everything esle so it seems to me that the clear choice is 12-6 rather than 12-3.

But if you want to aim for silver.  That is great.  You be you.  Do it for your reasons not just to be a clone of everyone else.

I don't think you understand what a speed team is, bud. 

I don't have a 159 speed team, I have a nuker with 159 speed. My TM booster is 347.

"Easiest to build with farmable champs?   That makes no sense." It does if you know what a speed team is....again, you seem to be stuck on gear thinking that every champion in a speed team needs speed.

A speed team is NOT a team full of fast champions....it is a team that goes first and in specific order. How does that happen? 

1. Fast TM booster (Diabolist, High Khatun....free champs, easy to get). They boost everybody else's turn meter.

2. Control Champ (Templar, Gnarlhorn, Graybeard), goes second, needs to be slightly slower than TM booster and with good accuracy. Makes sure enemy champs lose a turn.

If those two do their jobs, your enemy team is contained at least partially. They will be wasting their turn, throwing off the tune.

Then, your debuffer can focus on landing Decrease Defense (Warmaiden) and your nuker can focus on damage (Starter champ). 

Give me good farmable go-second champions for early arena.  In fact, let me see your lineup and their builds, if you don't mind. Also, please define a go-second team, just so we are on the same page. 

I am not going to tell you "which champ" when you should already be able to look at the vast number of rare possibilities.   I am not going to do your thinking FOR YOU.   Doing your thinking for you would be bad for you.   You, and everyone else on the planet needs to learn to think for themselves!

This discussion is not about 12.3 or 12.6. You can clear that stage (on brutal, I hope) or the other. 

Other champs than the starter champs are able to clear this stages as well. Nobody ever said something else. The starter champs, for their AoE attacks with fast cooldown are able to do so fast. Fast in matters of real life time. If you do the stage 50 times in a row, it's better when it's done in 30 seconds than in 2 minutes. Starter champs are able to clear any campaign stage in this game that has a reason to farm in acceptable time. There are champs that can clear it even faster. I've made an 8 seconds per stage campaign farmer out of Saurus. But this needs exeptional good gear and can't be done by an early game player. The starter champs can clear 12.3 or 12.6 in less than a minute even with mediocre gear.

You can learn from your own mistakes or from the mistakes others allready made.

funny you should say that. see, i have taken the time to go over just about every rare in the game. i've looked at their stats, i've looked at their abilities, i've looked at their damage multipliers and i've come to the conclusion that there really are no better alternatives for a new account's first 60. the other veterans on the forum have expressed similar beliefs. those content creators you've been denigrating? same result.

so i'm sure you'll understand why i and others might have trouble believing someone shouting down a widely held belief while simultaneously refusing to provide a shred of evidence.

This isn't about thinking for yourself, this is about you making claims you're not willing to back up....that's it.

Lol, dude. Just lol.

A new player, the wise old man, with 2 months of experience in the game comes in and says: "you are all doing it wrong. The starter champs are bad, level up the better rares first."

The experienced players ask as a rhetorical question "wich better rares are that?"

The wise old man openes his fortune cookie and says : "You have to find the answers to your questions by yourselves. This is the only way to achieve wisdom."

funny you should say that because you are completely missing the point.

The point is, everyone else is using starter champs so if you want to be better than them you should use champs that kill starter champs (in arena)

I was annoyed by all of the starter speed champs in arena because I felt it forced me to train champions to beat them rather than train whatever I wanted to succeed in the rest of the game.   My early game top upgrade champions were all red(force) because that is what I needed to beat the waves of starter champs in arena.

After I had sufficient reds I found greens that could survive the level 60 starters because once I could kill lvl 60 starters I needed to start killing level 60 UDKs.    I have only recently filled out my blue teams.

I also have tested many champions and I think I have at least 100 who I will rank to level 60 before any of my starters.

I killed the starter teams/udk escorts in the beginning with sister militant.    I only stopped upgrading her once I realized she could never ascend, wear amulet or banner.

for starters, your theory is only applicable to arena which is not where a new player should be focusing their efforts. even in arena though, it fails to hold water. it's wonderful that you were able to kill champions in arena using sister militant, but you know who would have been able to do a much better job of that? all four starter champions (and a good number of others as well. sister militant is awful). your whole premise of raising champions that can beat starter champions falls apart because the best champions to do that are still the starter champions.

On one side, if you were killing Starter + Udk with Sister militant.....those were some weaaaak starters and weak UDKs. Especially if they couldn't kill her first. What arena tier is that?

On the other side, I'm glad lower tier arenas are so weak that Sister Militant can be the answer. Now, you just need to prove to the crybabies that Sister Militant can take on Bronze Arena UDK. 

And content creators have made videos about her. She's just not worth it. 

At this point, let him do his thing, it's pointless. 

At least he's gone looking for solutions instead of crying about OP UDK....I can respect that. 

i'm under no illusions that i might be able to change their mind. my responses are more to ensure that no inexperienced players are suckered into following their "advice".

besides, this is hilarious. i'm not sure we've seen such an entertaining forum member since Warthog finally made good on their threats to leave.

I appreciate the adventurous spirit. I remember using Preserver in Arena (her A1 multipliers are NUTS). Lifesteal Nia is also a project I plan on doing someday. 

I just hope he tones it down with the attitude. 

not where new players should focus their efforts?   new players have little energy!   Arena requires none.   Faction wars requires none and gives really important stuff (enchantments, equip, credits (from selling equip))

So once my energy was spent I had nothing better to do than fight in arena, hopefully during tournaments so I could get more energy to go back to campaigning.

I chose sister not just because I liked her and she happened to be the right affinity.   I hoped they would see what just beat them so they would see their mistake.   I wanted to add insult to injury.

You say sister is awfull but I have seen her swat whole teams of starters in one shot.   Starters are fragile.  Maybe you had a bad build when you formed that opinion?   It seems to me the champion does not matter nearly as much as the equipment/skills/masteries on it.

I was afraid sister might get nerfed if I used her too much.

I wouldn't use her in arena defense because I didn't want anyone seeing what she was capable of.

I have played other games where I used unconventional tactics and assets to beat ubers badly enough they complained to the devs to get those tactics/assets nerfed.

"the best thing to beat starters is starters"  LMAO  You don't beat superior forces with their own tactics!   To beat starters with starters I would need to be better equipped.   I was beating them with inferior equip.

I'll even tell you my starter team just because your opinions annoy me so much.

I used UDK, Valerie, Sister and Sorceress.    I hadn't yet figured out that defensive toons damage comes from DEF so my UDK did very little damage.   I was equipping him with attack stuff.    I made sorceress tanky and basically only used her to debuff because she was on the fragile side.  Valerie and UDK sheilded and healed.   Valerie cleared debuffs and sister did almost all of the damage.   With that I could bring down teams of starters and bad UDKs.   I didn't start beating decent UDKs before I realized how he needed to be equipped.  Valerie was the first rare I skilled.

I tried using warmaiden but decided she was too fragile and would take too much work to make viable.   I wanted to beat the enemies in front of me today, not in 2 weeks. 

i

Really, it would be more akin to: "Here is our hand, flop and stack sizes of which we have hundreds of thousands of hands worth of data on. With that data, we know what our highest EV play is here." You can take other lines in the hand, but they simply won't be as good if not flat out bad.

Anyway, you're entitled to your own opinion and beliefs as to how this game should be approached, @Vigor555. I would ask you try not to be so abrasive about it. I think you are going to run into a whole host of issues as you progress in the game, or try to. Investing - and even worse doing so heavily - in champions that CANNOT scale for long if at all as content gets harder is a huge mistake and drain on accounts. I would go so far as to caution anyone on the newer side not to take this approach. 

On the forum and on the Discord server, I have seen many newer players show up with a whole host of 50s and sometimes 60s that really will do nothing for their account long term, thus wasting progression time. Three of the four champions you have described here fit that bill, in terms of champions invested in that offer you no long term value.

You guys are humoring this guy far too much.

Here are the list of rare champs that can campaign farm Brutal stage 12 in a reasonable amount of time, and without requiring an unreasonable amount of gear for the point in the game at which they are recommended to be used:

[Starter champ]

Bellower

Soulbound Bowyer

Fellhound

That's it. And, before you start being pedantic - there may be one or two others I've missed, but they're surely almost entirely worthless outside of proving a point.

Just quit humoring the guy and let this thread die off :/

Probably a good call. 

i

LMAO...Valerie is a good rare, I'll give you that. But if that is your successful go-second team, if they went first, and they couln't nuke your Valerie and Sister Militant from Orbit.....you have not yet encountered a decent speed team. 

And arena takes tokens. Sure, it's not energy, but it's still not infinite. BTW, if you think new players are short on energy, wait til you're later in the game. You actually get a lot of extra refills from completing objectives early on. At our level, you get maybe 3 a day from doing quests. 

Carpe is right, you are entertaining. I hope you stay on so we can keep up with your progress. I'm curious to see how your view of the game develops with experience.