You may not have a heal reduction champ though. At least not a consistent one, many UDK are built with high resist so landing it can be an issue anyway. Teams are also built around protecting him (and by extension, the rest of the team) as well. Remember, once everyone else is dead, the first hit appears to be completely mitigated (this is probably a bug), only the second hit does damage, so you need multi hitters or AE hitters to do any sort of damage. If you dont have those alive you are not going to kill him. Plus any healing you do to your team heals him as well, that complicates the whole killing part.

That is basically the core of the problem. The issue damaging him once the rest of the team is dead (he is VERY tanky at this point), plus the protection provided by other team members prior to that.

At high levels the approach is to kill him first and hope the rest of the enemy team does not wreck you while doing that, while enemy teams are designed to prevent you killing him first while at he same time wrecking your team. None of this is healthy for the game IMO.

But you are not demonstrating how the average player is going to achieve this. Your thesis is that a strong player can do it, but we are talking about parts of the game where stong players are not common or virtually not present at all.

In that scenario where everyone is given a very strong defensive  champion but not the tools to beat said champion, there is a problem because it is obvious what is going to happen.

UDK is a defensive champ. If you claim it is so easy to beat these teams, beat them without a UDK on your own team.

What you are doing is using your extensive knowledge about the game to breeze through, and incorporating a stong UDK in your team to make it unbeatable while at the same time optimising the makeup of the rest of the team so you can beat the other team.  So, you can't lose, you can only win. This is a skill level that is not representative of players at this level of the game.

You do know that UDK can probably beat all of those teams by himself right? Lmao.

You will need some level 1s on your team to die in order to power him up first of course, but against those teams in your post he should be just about unkillable.

I don't agree with what seems to be your theory.... that people cannot learn how to counter opposing champs, that they are too new or too unskilled to learn how to play. Perhaps I just think more highly of the average player.

Even if I was to think that UDK is some great wall that people can't figure out at all, it is good there's a couple things in people's favor:

1) This forum and the RSL discord, where people are happy to teach new players what they need to compete, and suggest counters and builds

2) The new free login champ that very effectively shuts down all of UDK's passive and active healing, and is uncounterable at that. Hoskarul, the easiest fusion ever, also happens to be Strong Affinity versus UDK and hits like a truck, and comes with Crowd Control to help kill him.

3) UDK isn't all that common once you move up... so once you hit Gold, you can rank up using 1 champ teams and start avoiding that all together.

4) Learning how to deal with 100 speed UDKs is just like learning how to deal with Tormin, or Rotos/Siphi, or whomever else is terrible if you don't know their skills.

Although @Carpe_Piscis explained some of the above in the other thread. :)

Not going to lie. I'm actually surprised people are STILL going on about UDK likes he's just broke the game.

time is a flat circle :)

there will always be those who aren't prone to solving problems and go in other directions with their energy. fortunately, there's lots of the opposite on here on the forum.

time is a flat circle :) 

Same as the earth. 😜

Have to disagree with you there.

i

I suspect the biggest problem people have with killing UDK is their choice of champions.   For instance, starter champs.   It seems the low arena tiers are filled with people who bothered to level their starter champs to 60.  I've been playing a little over 2 months, kill UDKs all day if I want and I hardly used my starter champ.   I think I had made up my mind after about 2 weeks that I hated starter champs (mine and theirs).  

I think people get a lot of bad advice from youtubers too.

Starter champs can be very viable nukers for early arena and early-mid game in general, so they're a sound choice for the first maxed champ, unless you are lucky enough to pull a great nuker. They tend to struggle with the following:

- Understanding basic game mechanics 

- Understanding champion roles 

- Understanding stat priorities in builds

"can be" but aren't.

So many people are trying to build speed teams with those champions due to youtube advice that those champions are amongst the least viable.   Instead of a battle you have a race.   And to win the race, you would have to have squandered your energy trying to build speed suits.

"can be" = has the potential to be.   yes, your kael does have the potential to be faster than the other guy's kael.

The first thing that you really need is something that beats kael while not being as well equipped.    Then you will rise above all of the people who dutifully followed youtube advice and ascend to where you need to beat UDKs, then you need to beat good UDKs, then good UDKs + Delianas.    At that point you start needing to be able to beat full teams of badly equipped Legos.

I have about 100 champions I would rather begin with than a starter champ.   But because so many people focus on their starter champs, nearly all greens are off the table.   They aren't viable due to the game climate.  The game climate is set on bad advice. 

no one claims that the starter champions are amazing (well no one who actually knows anything about the game, anyway). what they are is convenient. sure, there are hundreds of better champions in the game but that's useless unless you actually have them.

the reason starter champions are emphasized so heavily is threefold. first, as i mentioned, is that they're convenient. every new player starts with one of them so they don't have to send up a quick prayer to RNJesus in the hopes of getting one. second is that the first thing every new player should do is make a campaign grinder, which all 4 starter champions are perfectly capable of doing. third, as rares go the starters are quite good. there are plenty of epic and lego champions that overshadow them but that's not an option thats available to someone just starting out. unless the player is extremely lucky, their starter will be one of their best champions available to them for the time being.

so no, i don't think the problem is the advice you're currently criticizing.

are you kidding?   Have you heard anyone (besides me) advise people to start with anything besides their starter champions?  What about chat.   Have you ever heard some newb ask what to do and someone DIDN'T respond with "level your starter champ to 60".   

Some people use full teams of starter champs.  Some people use multiple Kaels!   It is crazy but.... there it is.

How many green shards do you have to use before you get some better option than a starter champ?   Not many.    Yet I have frequently been told to not only rank my starter to 60 but also GEM them!   What a waste.  

If we were playing rock paper scissors, and a newb asked "which should i choose" the entire community would scream paper whcn scissors is the correct choice.

LMAO speed team doesn't mean your Kael has to be faster than their Kael. That's not how speed teams work. In fact, Kael should be the slowest on your speed team. The nuker in my speed team right now is 159 speed, doing just fine. 

Speed teams are the easiest to build with farmable champs. You think grinding for speed gear is hard, try building a go-second team. 

Speed team also have a lot of overlap with early game content, so you can use the same champions in other content, like Dungeons, Campaign farming, even Clan Boss. 

Ok, give us a good alternative, then. And present an argument as to why? Who do you suggest they level?

i have heard numerous people advise new players to not use their starter champions over the years. i've also heard numerous people advise using legendary champions as food, but the fact that multiple people were saying it didn't change the fact that it's absolutely terrible advice.

using four starters in one team is certainly bad, but that's just bad team composition, not the champion's fault. running four copies of any champion, no matter how good, will almost certainly be a bad team.

regarding the green shards, i'm really curious as to who you're pulling at all, let alone so quickly, that's so much better than your starter. you can't pull anything better than a rare from a mystery shard and the few rares i would consider objectively better than the starters (at least athel and kael) are all void affinity and only available from void shards.

to your closing analogy, i'm going to have to ask for clarification. i get that 'level your starter to 60' is paper, which is in your opinion wrong. you seem to feel that the correct advice would be scissors but i'm not totally clear as to what exactly that is. so if you could, please expand on what you feel is the best advice to give to starting players.

That's ridiculous! Starter champs are able to solo 12.3 brutal. That alone is reason enough to bring them to lvl 60. 

In addition to that, starter champs are the best non-void rare AoE damage dealers and therefore the best arena nukers at the start. If you think another non-void rare (or lower rarity) champ could outperform them as AoE damage dealers, please make your claim wich champ that is. 

So, I would never suggest anyone use multiple starters champions up, and most experienced players wouldn't either. It's just redundant because more or less all the starters serve to do the same thing: be a reasonable dungeon nuker/wave clearer/arena nuker, farm 12-3 brutal ASAP and function as a strong early Clan Boss DPS. Kael brings poisons and Athel brings weaken, which makes both of them quite viable in Clan Boss.

In terms of overall coverage of content, there isn't a single rare that functions better than the starters (especially Kael/Athel/Elhain.) That's what we're looking for early, taking our first champion to 60 that's going to allow us to bring up more champs to 60 in a timely fashion. 

In this instance, there is a very good reason why almost every single player is told to take their starter to 60 before any other champion: it's the best option because it offers the fastest progression while also being incredibly easy to invest in due to being a rare.

I do just fine with a go 2nd team and that gear is far easier to farm.   You need to farm a lot of equipment pieces to get good speed without using speed primary stat boots.    To get high speed you also need a lot of credits even if you use speed boots.   I had a few speed champions early on but they have been refitted.   I got to 154 speed with level 12 speed boots.

A 159 speed team is really not all that fast either.    That is achievable with 1 set of speed boots to level 12.

Easiest to build with farmable champs?   That makes no sense.   Are you referring to the 3 speed from faction guardians?   That bonus applies to every rare in the faction.   I am referring to going to dungeons to farm, which requires an awful lot of energy a newb can't afford to spend.   Without getting high rarity equipment you can't possibly get a lot of speed from substats.   If a newb spends his energy farming dungeons he is going to permanently delay his progression.

No matter what champions you use they can be useful in other content.

This is like a card game.   The game deals you a hand and you play it as well as you can.   If we were playing poker, the advice in this game would be equivalent to, "always go for the flush" regardless of the cards in your hand. 

The alternative depends on the hand you are dealt.   It takes very little time to have a whole lot of options to choose from.   But there is one glaring option that will always be way better than the starter.   After 7 days of play the game gives you some lego.   When I started it was UDK, now it would be Ronda.

I find it extremely annoying that this should be a dynamic game but it isn't because everyone elses beliefs and actions are so similar I feel like I am fighting a bunch of clones.   I suspect as I rise in ranks there will be a bit more diversity as people's hands will force them to diverge a bit.

I think people should figure out who to level not ask everyone else for the answer to their test.    If people played diverse styles, one champion might not work well with one player but would work great with another.

I think everyone copying each other is really poisonous for humanity.