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UDK is unbeatable...

UDK is unbeatable...

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Dec 7, 2022, 18:0612/07/22
10/15/20
2046
Vigor555

I'll even tell you my starter team just because your opinions annoy me so much.

I used UDK, Valerie, Sister and Sorceress.    I hadn't yet figured out that defensive toons damage comes from DEF so my UDK did very little damage.   I was equipping him with attack stuff.    I made sorceress tanky and basically only used her to debuff because she was on the fragile side.  Valerie and UDK sheilded and healed.   Valerie cleared debuffs and sister did almost all of the damage.   With that I could bring down teams of starters and bad UDKs.   I didn't start beating decent UDKs before I realized how he needed to be equipped.  Valerie was the first rare I skilled.

I tried using warmaiden but decided she was too fragile and would take too much work to make viable.   I wanted to beat the enemies in front of me today, not in 2 weeks. 

I'm sure your team can beat the teams of other players that have as less experience in the game as you have in lower tier arena. In early arena, account level is taken into the matchmaking. Your opponents don't have a plan how arena works. They are as new in the game as you are. Don't think your victories over them show anything. As Ronda Rousey joined the game recently, I will take her for comparison: a twelve year old schoolgirl may beat up a same aged class mate. That does not help if she would have to fight Ronda Rousey. Neither makes beating up a same aged class mate her a good fighter, nore would the tactics she used in that fight work vs. Ronda. And definetly the 12 year old girl should not try to teach Ronda how to fight.

A well built team of High Khatun, Warmaiden, Starter + free champ nukes your team just away before you can act. UDK could survive, but he has a difficult position 1 vs. 4.

You have no champ in your team that pushes speed. You have no strategy of surviving the first hit of an enemy team, exept of hoping your opponent did not build his champions well and therefore just does not enough damage to kill your champs. UDK protects only vs. single target attacks.

Your debuffer, Sorceress, is a bad champ. Only a (booked) 40% chance to land the debuff, only 3 hits at random. Exchanging her with Warmaiden (campaign farmable rare, drops in campaign stage 9) would immediately upgrade your team. Not because I say so, but because of the objective reason that Warmaiden attacks all enemies and has a (booked) 100% chance to land the decrease def debuff. 100% chance to land the debuff on all enemies vs. 40% chance to land the debuff on 3 random enemies.

That's just one point. As somebody who thinks people should make their own experience, you will learn why your arena team is not good early enough.

Dec 10, 2022, 21:5312/10/22
01/10/22
2

You need a champion with HP Burn to beat Ultiate Deathknight ! It is still not easy my regular champions PLUS either Mordecai OR Archbishop Pinthroy he can be beaten!

Dec 10, 2022, 22:1412/10/22
Dec 11, 2022, 00:21(edited)
10/15/20
2046
BRANT

You need a champion with HP Burn to beat Ultiate Deathknight ! It is still not easy my regular champions PLUS either Mordecai OR Archbishop Pinthroy he can be beaten!

You definetly don't need hp-burn to beat him. If UDK stands alone vs. your team, because his teammembers are allready dead, hp-burn deals 3% of his max hp as damage per turn. That's it, no other effect. UDK can heal 15% from a regeneration set (most players built him in regeneration in early arena) and another 15% from his continous heal buff. 3% damage per turn vs. 30% healing.

Archbishop Pintroy doesn't even provide hp-burn, but he has strong affinity and his A2 can place a 100% heal reduction debuff on UDK - what was probably the key to win the fight.

It's not clear why exactly your team can beat UDK if you add Mordecai, but I guess it's because of the turnmeter reduction he brings. UDK doesn't get so many turns and therefore can't heal enough against your hit damage. An Armiger would do the same. The hp-burn debuff is only a correlation, not the causality for your victory - as the fact that Archbishop Pintroy doesn't have hp-burn proves.

Dec 10, 2022, 23:4412/10/22
11/16/20
1076
BRANT

You need a champion with HP Burn to beat Ultiate Deathknight ! It is still not easy my regular champions PLUS either Mordecai OR Archbishop Pinthroy he can be beaten!

No HP burn, udk was in 6 piece stone skin.

6 second fight.

UDK is free wins as 90% of the time he is a wasted spot in arena comps.

i


Dec 12, 2022, 09:2412/12/22
Dec 12, 2022, 10:01(edited)
03/12/21
40
harleQuinn

How much is someone supposed to hamstring themselves to show that UDK versus UDK fights don't last until you hit Quit Match? I think my post clearly shows that winning until you reach Gold is not impossible. All it took was ranking up TWO champs to 6 stars (not even to 60), that the two the game gave me in the first week. I didn't even bother gear farming.

The absolute majority of people complaining do have UDK, since their argument is that UDK versus UDK is a stallout fest. I see it in their screenshots, they are clearly using UDK and have to quit out of fights.

Real talk, when I'm trying to see if arena is just endless UDK versus UDK "quitout fights", who am I allowed to use if not the champs the game handed everyone? No free login champs? So no UDK or High Khatun? Only campaign farmables? No Starters? Only Uncommons? Considering I started and used the champs given to a brand new account at the time, and 60'd only champions everyone else had, what is the problem? 

The screens clearly show I went a combined 134-3 until I made Gold 1. That doesn't seem like I had to quit out a ton of fights.

Your experience is not what the vast majority of players are having.

Here is an example from 30 seconds ago, but in 3v3 silver 4. The enemy team was UDK, Rotos, Rector Drath and Vogoth. UDK was slow, tanky and in full stoneskin, meaning you could not do anything to the team until UDK had dropped his stoneskin, and while you are waiting for that the enemy Rotos (in this case a +2 Rotos) was hammering on your team.  The particular team I was running was Siphi, Leo, my own Rotos and Gorgorab (he is the speed lead on that particular team in 3v3). I eventually managed to get the enemy UDK down by hammering on their Rotos (he was the squishest on the enemy team and consequently that did the most damage to UDK), but by the time that happened I was down to my Rotos. UDK was put down permanently with Rotos's bock revive skill, so he was gone at that point. He is built with high defense in regen gear, and relies on being spun up to work. He was built this way to solo bosses, but it does make him tough to kill in pvp if he stays alive long enough. He almost got the enemy Rotos down, he was one A3 away from that, but he got killed just before. If he had taken Rotos down I would have won. The whole thing took something like 20 minutes.

I have had fights against teams like that which have gone on for much longer, or rather would have except that I usually quit out because I simply don't have time for that nonsense. The strategy of these people is to win by wasting your time, because, unlike them, you are actually at your computer so a 2 hour draw is not going to work. There are a LOT of teams like that in 3v3, not all use UDK though. That is why 3v3 is like having your fingernails pulled out.

Now, I know you can use something like heal reduction or block passive skills (using Ronda), but those wont land while stoneskin is up, and by the time it is down the champs that cast those would be dead.

This is basically the problem with UDK, he can be built around other tanks/ buffers that reduce team damage, along with a single target nuker and you easily have a team that is VERY hard to kill without having your own super tanky (and consequently low damage) team.

This is a problem at all levels, but particularly at low to mid levels. UDK is disproportionately overpowered as a tank with very limited methods of working around that. That may be fine in pve, but it makes for long fights at best in pvp. Remember, once you get to silver 3 or 4 in arena you will be facing 7 to 10 UDK teams with level 60 UDKs in them, and those teams without one will usually by much higher player power with at least one of the conventional OP champs in them.

Dec 12, 2022, 09:2512/12/22
03/12/21
40
evilized6666

No HP burn, udk was in 6 piece stone skin.

6 second fight.

UDK is free wins as 90% of the time he is a wasted spot in arena comps.

i


That UDK team is not built properly though.

Dec 12, 2022, 09:3412/12/22
Dec 12, 2022, 10:01(edited)
03/12/21
40
Skadi

I'm sure your team can beat the teams of other players that have as less experience in the game as you have in lower tier arena. In early arena, account level is taken into the matchmaking. Your opponents don't have a plan how arena works. They are as new in the game as you are. Don't think your victories over them show anything. As Ronda Rousey joined the game recently, I will take her for comparison: a twelve year old schoolgirl may beat up a same aged class mate. That does not help if she would have to fight Ronda Rousey. Neither makes beating up a same aged class mate her a good fighter, nore would the tactics she used in that fight work vs. Ronda. And definetly the 12 year old girl should not try to teach Ronda how to fight.

A well built team of High Khatun, Warmaiden, Starter + free champ nukes your team just away before you can act. UDK could survive, but he has a difficult position 1 vs. 4.

You have no champ in your team that pushes speed. You have no strategy of surviving the first hit of an enemy team, exept of hoping your opponent did not build his champions well and therefore just does not enough damage to kill your champs. UDK protects only vs. single target attacks.

Your debuffer, Sorceress, is a bad champ. Only a (booked) 40% chance to land the debuff, only 3 hits at random. Exchanging her with Warmaiden (campaign farmable rare, drops in campaign stage 9) would immediately upgrade your team. Not because I say so, but because of the objective reason that Warmaiden attacks all enemies and has a (booked) 100% chance to land the decrease def debuff. 100% chance to land the debuff on all enemies vs. 40% chance to land the debuff on 3 random enemies.

That's just one point. As somebody who thinks people should make their own experience, you will learn why your arena team is not good early enough.

The thing is, if UDK is built properly, the rest of the team is not really necessary, they only weaken him, lol.

I have had plenty of fights against higher power teams that quickly kill my other three champs. But once they die UDK gets stronger, plus single target attacks directed at him can't damage him. So he can usually just stands there getting pounded on while he slowly kills off the enemy team. It typically works provided they don't have a big double hitter on their team, and provided they dont have their own UDK or a tanky healer (in which case the match literally goes on to server reset).

Dec 12, 2022, 09:3812/12/22
03/12/21
40
Vigor555

I'll even tell you my starter team just because your opinions annoy me so much.

I used UDK, Valerie, Sister and Sorceress.    I hadn't yet figured out that defensive toons damage comes from DEF so my UDK did very little damage.   I was equipping him with attack stuff.    I made sorceress tanky and basically only used her to debuff because she was on the fragile side.  Valerie and UDK sheilded and healed.   Valerie cleared debuffs and sister did almost all of the damage.   With that I could bring down teams of starters and bad UDKs.   I didn't start beating decent UDKs before I realized how he needed to be equipped.  Valerie was the first rare I skilled.

I tried using warmaiden but decided she was too fragile and would take too much work to make viable.   I wanted to beat the enemies in front of me today, not in 2 weeks. 

That team would be dead other than  before it takes a turn against my team.

Dec 12, 2022, 09:4912/12/22
Dec 12, 2022, 09:59(edited)
03/12/21
40
dthorne04

So, I would never suggest anyone use multiple starters champions up, and most experienced players wouldn't either. It's just redundant because more or less all the starters serve to do the same thing: be a reasonable dungeon nuker/wave clearer/arena nuker, farm 12-3 brutal ASAP and function as a strong early Clan Boss DPS. Kael brings poisons and Athel brings weaken, which makes both of them quite viable in Clan Boss.

In terms of overall coverage of content, there isn't a single rare that functions better than the starters (especially Kael/Athel/Elhain.) That's what we're looking for early, taking our first champion to 60 that's going to allow us to bring up more champs to 60 in a timely fashion. 

In this instance, there is a very good reason why almost every single player is told to take their starter to 60 before any other champion: it's the best option because it offers the fastest progression while also being incredibly easy to invest in due to being a rare.

That is not true. There are some, such as Reliquary Tender, Coldheart, Apothecary, Bellower to name a few, which are useful long after all the starters are gathering dust in the vault.

Dec 12, 2022, 09:5212/12/22
11/16/20
1076
yellamokara

That UDK team is not built properly though.

Neither are the ones anyone in this thread is complaining about.

dthorne04Moderator
Dec 12, 2022, 09:5612/12/22
Dec 12, 2022, 10:00(edited)
12/30/20
5415
yellamokara

That is not true. There are some, such as Reliquary Tender, Coldheart, Apothecary, Bellower to name a few, which are useful long after all the starters are gathering dust in the vault.

Taking any of those up before your starter ranges from a subpar choice to horrible and will just serve to slow your progression. We need a dedicated DPS to farm campaign/dungeons (especially dragon)/Clan Boss efficiently. 

Also please take care in formatting your posts without 9000 empty lines, thank you. 

Dec 12, 2022, 10:0012/12/22
Dec 12, 2022, 10:01(edited)
03/12/21
40
Skadi

The whole point of destroy set vs. UDK is, that his healing from continous heal and Regeneration set is based on his max hp and gets reduced while the set reduces his max hp. UDK with 100k life heals for 30k (15% of max hp from set, 15% from heal buff). UDK with hp reduced to 40k heals 12k per turn if the heal buff is active and only 6k per turn from his Regeneration set alone. The numbers are of course only to show the principle, I don't assume that UDK in Bronze Arena starts with 100k hp.

If you are able to deal more damage per turn than he heals, you can move his hp bar down. So Destroy is good enough to beat him. 


Heal reduction of course works as well. It's just another method. It's good to have deifferent methods of defeating UDK, so people who don't have a champ with heal reduction can still win if they put a damage dealer in destroy set.

UDKs passive heals him when your team heals, that is one of the reasons he is so hard to kill if the enemy team is built tanky.

Destroy sets work, but your team will probably be wrecked long before you can get his hp low enough.

[Edited out the 1,000 lines of blank space causing this one post to take up a full page -Mod Team] 

harleQuinnModerator
Dec 12, 2022, 10:0212/12/22
02/24/19
7272
yellamokara

UDKs passive heals him when your team heals, that is one of the reasons he is so hard to kill if the enemy team is built tanky.

Destroy sets work, but your team will probably be wrecked long before you can get his hp low enough.

[Edited out the 1,000 lines of blank space causing this one post to take up a full page -Mod Team] 

Dude, please check your formatting and stop adding 1,000+ lines of blank spaces at the end of every post.

harleQuinnModerator
Dec 12, 2022, 10:0912/12/22
02/24/19
7272
yellamokara

Your experience is not what the vast majority of players are having.

Here is an example from 30 seconds ago, but in 3v3 silver 4. The enemy team was UDK, Rotos, Rector Drath and Vogoth. UDK was slow, tanky and in full stoneskin, meaning you could not do anything to the team until UDK had dropped his stoneskin, and while you are waiting for that the enemy Rotos (in this case a +2 Rotos) was hammering on your team.  The particular team I was running was Siphi, Leo, my own Rotos and Gorgorab (he is the speed lead on that particular team in 3v3). I eventually managed to get the enemy UDK down by hammering on their Rotos (he was the squishest on the enemy team and consequently that did the most damage to UDK), but by the time that happened I was down to my Rotos. UDK was put down permanently with Rotos's bock revive skill, so he was gone at that point. He is built with high defense in regen gear, and relies on being spun up to work. He was built this way to solo bosses, but it does make him tough to kill in pvp if he stays alive long enough. He almost got the enemy Rotos down, he was one A3 away from that, but he got killed just before. If he had taken Rotos down I would have won. The whole thing took something like 20 minutes.

I have had fights against teams like that which have gone on for much longer, or rather would have except that I usually quit out because I simply don't have time for that nonsense. The strategy of these people is to win by wasting your time, because, unlike them, you are actually at your computer so a 2 hour draw is not going to work. There are a LOT of teams like that in 3v3, not all use UDK though. That is why 3v3 is like having your fingernails pulled out.

Now, I know you can use something like heal reduction or block passive skills (using Ronda), but those wont land while stoneskin is up, and by the time it is down the champs that cast those would be dead.

This is basically the problem with UDK, he can be built around other tanks/ buffers that reduce team damage, along with a single target nuker and you easily have a team that is VERY hard to kill without having your own super tanky (and consequently low damage) team.

This is a problem at all levels, but particularly at low to mid levels. UDK is disproportionately overpowered as a tank with very limited methods of working around that. That may be fine in pve, but it makes for long fights at best in pvp. Remember, once you get to silver 3 or 4 in arena you will be facing 7 to 10 UDK teams with level 60 UDKs in them, and those teams without one will usually by much higher player power with at least one of the conventional OP champs in them.

As you said word for word:

The strategy of these people is to win by wasting your time, because, unlike them, you are actually at your computer so a 2 hour draw is not going to work. There are a LOT of teams like that in 3v3, not all use UDK though. That is why 3v3 is like having your fingernails pulled out. 
Now, I know you can use something like heal reduction or block passive skills (using Ronda), but those wont land while stoneskin is up, and by the time it is down the champs that cast those would be dead.
 

Seems like UDK isn't the only champ or team you find problematic. There are solutions to every champ, and sometimes you're gonna be required to build teams that can handle two turns of being attacked. This would give you time to deal with UDK through the strategies you yourself mentioned. Or you could bring some debuffers, some stronger AoE champs, rather than your single target DPS Rotos, and just nuke everyone else and then click auto while your team finished off the UDK, who would be the only one standing anymore. 

I've played on brand new accounts, as in this post. And I play in G3/G4 Tag, where UDK isn't the problem, it's a variety of other, much better champs.

harleQuinnModerator
Dec 12, 2022, 10:1112/12/22
02/24/19
7272

To put it bluntly even.... why are fighting UDK/Rotos with a Rotos? Of COURSE that is gonna take a long time. Bring in an AoE DPS and get done quicker.

dthorne04Moderator
Dec 12, 2022, 10:1412/12/22
12/30/20
5415
harleQuinn

To put it bluntly even.... why are fighting UDK/Rotos with a Rotos? Of COURSE that is gonna take a long time. Bring in an AoE DPS and get done quicker.

We bring team that is predictably going to take a lot of time against another team that we know is often built in a predictable way.

"Damn these slow fights"

We have to bring more buff strippers to these fights (this is a matchup in which Morrigaine would shine for multiple reasons). 

Dec 12, 2022, 11:5612/12/22
11/19/22
610
yellamokara

UDKs passive heals him when your team heals, that is one of the reasons he is so hard to kill if the enemy team is built tanky.

Destroy sets work, but your team will probably be wrecked long before you can get his hp low enough.

[Edited out the 1,000 lines of blank space causing this one post to take up a full page -Mod Team] 

Have you tried Ronda against UDK yet? Her A2 blocks passives.

Dec 23, 2022, 07:1812/23/22
Dec 23, 2022, 07:41(edited)
03/12/21
40
dthorne04

Taking any of those up before your starter ranges from a subpar choice to horrible and will just serve to slow your progression. We need a dedicated DPS to farm campaign/dungeons (especially dragon)/Clan Boss efficiently. 

Also please take care in formatting your posts without 9000 empty lines, thank you. 

Those empty lines are probably from the stuff you are posting in the quotes. Stop posting random screenshots maybe?

Just as a side note, the editor on this page, at least on my tablet, is really buggy.


Dec 23, 2022, 07:3312/23/22
Dec 23, 2022, 07:37(edited)
03/12/21
40
Fathertron

Have you tried Ronda against UDK yet? Her A2 blocks passives.

Ronda works, but not always. Depending on who is on the other team, she may die first, so once she is down UDK is very hard to kill again. He will get into that state where even though his hp is at zero, multi hits will not kill him.

The other problem is that UDK himself seems to have a bug occasionally, where he just will sit at 0 health and not die at all even with Ronda's debuffs. I have just had a fight like that, with Ronda alive and landing her debuffs. Went on for half an hour before I quit out. Like I said, he was literally at zero hp most of the fight, and nothing would kill him, including multi hits and including when Ronda had her debuffs on him.

There is something seriously wrong with UDKs coding. I am pretty sure that he is not supposed to go into these invulnerable states like that.

It seems to be primarily an issue at the lower end of the game. On my main account, where I play at gold 5 in arena and gold 1 in 3v3 it seems not to be an issue. UDK at those levels is annoying but least he is killable.

dthorne04Moderator
Dec 23, 2022, 07:3612/23/22
Dec 23, 2022, 07:42(edited)
12/30/20
5415
yellamokara

Those empty lines are probably from the stuff you are posting in the quotes. Stop posting random screenshots maybe?

Just as a side note, the editor on this page, at least on my tablet, is really buggy.


Nah, it's on your end and I fixed it again on both posts. Has nothing to do with any screenshots or quotes, or anything I am doing.