On attack i can deal with leorius fine, i just use uugo.
On defence though, if i use uugo in defence it leaves me vulnerable to something else, which i guess is how it should be but the number of hits i get in defence is insane right now. I am sitting at around 3.3k (the middle of g4) and struggling to stay there...and while i am admittedly FTP i have been playing over a year now.
Yes Leo is simple, Counter Uugo or Genbo instakill.
Plarium has absolutely made changes to arena matchmaking since the new patch. I am seeing page after page of OP teams every refresh, where before I could at least stumble across a page with a handful of winnable matchups a few times a day. I could also count on 20 to 30 defensive wins a day to bolster my ranking, but I've only had a handful of those defensive wins TOTAL since the patch. I would really like an explanation on what they have done.
Regarding G5 . . . What they did there was essentially maintain the width of the road while adding another lane, and what's worse, that new lane acts as a private/HOV lane because once teams like me that are not Plat-worthy get to G5, you are opened up to losses again if you had already hit your daily loss limit. So instead of each week many teams like myself floating up to 3700-3800 points when the G4/Plat boundary kept increasing each day, we are capped at 3500 which squeezes the already competitive G4 and pushes many very good teams down to G3 and beyond. Although they've seemingly "fixed" this issue since I will no longer get anywhere close to 3500 under the new arena matchmaking algorithm.
1st: The most problem is, PVE content + Arbiter mission is bonded to PvP content.
2nd : No progression there if cant reach the G1 and G4 leagues. No Gold token, no developments on Great Hall and no plus bonuses for characters.
Plus a more difficult thing, the upper G leagues give another plus bonuses, but the newer players cant reach higher Gold leagues and cant get more bonuses because of the new point system (3-17points). Now at the higher leagues face with it the highest rivalry in the Raid history and there the old players put down to lower leagues which is making the situation more worse for new players.
I have a suspicion that it is neither. My theory is that the real culprit is Stoneskin Cardinal. That is an arena team that requires a lot of end-game stuff, and thus isn't available to many of the newer players. It also absolutely crushes a ton of "normal" teams.
My guess is that G4 and above became much more competitive because of that addition. It just so happened to be at the same-ish time that G5 was added. The meta still hasn't really adjusted to this new team - I still see tons of very easily beatable arena defense teams that, in the past, may have been challenging - teams like Arb + Duchess + Deacon + Trunda. By far the biggest culprit though, are the blender teams - they are 100% countered by Stoneskin Cardinal.
I think we'll need to see the meta shake out a bit, and wait for the dust to settle, before we really get an indication of whether G5 will matter.
The other big problem, though, is there is almost no incentive to actually get into G5. I wouldn't be surprised if the pool of players in G5 is much, much smaller than anticipated.
I think this is a good candidate for everything we are seeing, yes. Stoneskin cardinal teams are ALL over the place. Side note, I am part of the meta changing.... personally I am having to adjust my defense cause Hege/ Maulie lockouts are just not cutting the mustard against such a team, they obviously rez and smack me. This is only on offense, cause of course this team is a gauranteed win when someone puts it on defense. Just block the rez and done.
And yes, I can see how G5 doesn't feel any different reward wise than G4 right now. So I can understand why people don't want to push it. It is serious effort, it feels like what it used to getting set up on a weekend into Plat or the edge so you could try push Plat at reset. And that feeling is on a Monday/Tuesday.
What i find more worrying in the picture is the two level 90's.
That a huge amount spent in this game only to be in gold I.
Edit: Just to clarify the problem with pvp is you cant all be on top. Your strength is relative to other players. And that works fine in alot of games. But when you overall game experience outside pvp is being hampered - here the issues start to show. Not being able to do missions. Not being able to do fusions due to classic arena tournaments etc. Then you will see players leave in frustration. Sadly before that happens a small amount maybe 5% act the wrong way during initial frustration - they start to spend to keep up. My advice to anyone in this world NEVER EVER SPEND MONEY when you reward is determined by other peoples actions you will end up just as dissapointed and frustrated as Hell Hades after he finishes 2nd in champion training event.
I wouldn't put blame on SS Cardinal, for several reasons. First is, i've been abusing her little red hoodie since Hydra came out, poor thing looks like she went through the Korean war. All worn out, raggy, filthy... it's disgusting,really.
Second, people insist on sticking to their old ways. A lot of CCs are OG, and at the time, this was the best strategy: Speed lead, into speed boost, into debuff, into nuke. And this is how they teach new players, who are browsing the internet for ideas and strats. Now, i don't remember that, that was a little before my time (been playing cca 1,5 years) - but based on stories it was a lot easier back then compared to now. ANd yes, that is the easiest way, early on. But after your account progresses a bit more, and you get better and better gear, it's time to move forward. Now - Swift parry is everywhere, Reaction is everywhere, Warlords, Nekreths, and now Stoneskin.
TL:DR: Stop putting speed teams in defense so much.
My defense and often times go-to offense is Candy, Raglin, Riho, Sandlashed and they have a surprisingly high win rate on both defense and offense. They are all top tier champs, no doubt, but others can assume their respective roles as well. Vogoth, Rhotos, Big Mama and Skytouched come to mind.
If the main problem is being nuked by SS Cardinal teams, just avoid putting in AoE nukers, use either Block Revive champions (Fenax, Foli...) or single target snipers like Crue, Rhotos, MK...
Speed team vs speed team is a gamble, you're either faster or you're not. More and more, you're not. That's why you have to invest heavily into teams that can take a hit and live.
Speed alone is simply not viable anymore.
add more tiers
each tier add 10 more tiers
I think the arena became so difficult completely organically, as part of natural progression of the game. And, sadly, as time passes it is likely to become even more difficult. Here's how I think it works:
A lot of Platinum players are OG, they have been playing for 2+ years, some even since the game was released. As such, they had a lot more time to farm god-tier gear, spent more on getting the meta champs, fine-tune the teams, etc. Once they reach certain level, they don't quit the game, but prefer to stay there.
As a result, the top of arena gets filled, saturated, so to speak. As newer players arrive, they occupy slightly lesser positions, but are still competitive for top postions.
Then come even newer players, with less than 2 years worth of playing. As Arena if filled from top down, those players are at a huge disadvantage, because there simply wasn't enough time and gameplay to progress their accounts enough to catch up with the rest. One way, if not the only way, is to spend far more than OG. This is why it becomes more and more difficult and more and more is required to spend money to stay competitive.
The addition of G5 was a great idea - but only on paper. Instead of staying in G5 or pushing for plat, those ''plat dropouts'' as i call them, drop down more or less on purpose, some want to farm more easiliy, others with maxxed or near-maxxed GH simply don't care. They're not in any rush. So they keep dropping to G4, G3, or even further, and are in the way of others who are struggling to reach higher tiers.
The problem is that the arena is saturated from top down, and as time passes, it will completely saturate G5 and eventually G4. SO you will end up with players trying to get to G4 to get Arbiter, and G4 will be filled with people who have been playing several years. And this is what they'll be up against.
One solution to this disaster-in-the-making is to EXPAND. EXPAND EVERYTHING! Plat, G5, even G4. This is absolutely paramount. Otherwise, arena will become completely unplayable for any new player that comes into fray within a matter of months. I'm referring to G4 in particular. It will become impossible to reach, even for high spenders. And when I say ''expand'' I don't mean by 100 or 200 places - but rather 1000 or several thousand.
The other solution is to un-tie game progression (get Arbiter, get Ramantu, get MyLateGrandma...) from reaching G4.
I am pretty sure even the brass and the developers at Plarium are aware of this looming problemm which is only going to get worse with time. The last thing any company, any business needs is to demoralize their potential customers. That's the best way to lose them. For evidence, i present the OP.
I hope i made sense. I would write some more, but i ran out of ink.😁
To me, the hypothesis that this is the organic result of gradual changes is hard to believe . I've been stable at about 3000 points for the last 6 months . I've dropped 400-500 points in the last 48-72 hours despite increasing my spending of gems to refresh the team's . That screams recent and impactful change to me.
To me, the hypothesis that this is the organic result of gradual changes is hard to believe . I've been stable at about 3000 points for the last 6 months . I've dropped 400-500 points in the last 48-72 hours despite increasing my spending of gems to refresh the team's . That screams recent and impactful change to me.
You've brought up spending gems on refreshes a few times, is that how you maintained being in gold the entire time. Refreshing to find free wins?
If that is the case I mean you would obviously know that your team wasn't meant to be as high as you were. There should be no need to waste gems on refreshing to maintain your rank.
I'm still wondering about your arena comp and stats.
You've brought up spending gems on refreshes a few times, is that how you maintained being in gold the entire time. Refreshing to find free wins?
If that is the case I mean you would obviously know that your team wasn't meant to be as high as you were. There should be no need to waste gems on refreshing to maintain your rank.
I'm still wondering about your arena comp and stats.
Agree, and instead of using gems to refresh arena (one of worst ways to use) they could be going to actually improving your arena team.
I don't think plarium intended to make arena more difficult with G5 addition, but for whatever reasons less are setting solo defense part of the week (myself included) resulting in a more challenging arena in the upper gold ranks. I actually find the most frequent solos just below plat, so just get in the 3700s and problem solved.
I agree that a speed nuke team is not sufficient anymore. You need an edge that makes people change their team, a tormin to make them bring in a counter, or a hedgemon, or a leorius making offence trivial, or empowered nehkret/duchess combinations to get extreme tankiness
Thing is- in these sort of games players expect to progress over time. If you have been in G4 for a year or more, and now find yourself in G1 - the frustration of going backwards is likely to make people quit.
I am not sure if that bothers plarium, as long as the person spends before quitting they may not mind.
I think two things need to happen, firstly PVE missions and objectives need to be removed from arena (perhaps with alternative methods to do great hall)
Secondly, a lot more tiers together with raising the points banding.
As things stand the arena must be more frustrating for new players than it was 6 months ago.
You've brought up spending gems on refreshes a few times, is that how you maintained being in gold the entire time. Refreshing to find free wins?
If that is the case I mean you would obviously know that your team wasn't meant to be as high as you were. There should be no need to waste gems on refreshing to maintain your rank.
I'm still wondering about your arena comp and stats.
What I do know is that I've been playing this game daily without fall for two years . I'd need maybe 20-30 gems daily to complete the daily quest up to whatever change they made recently . At the moment, ten times that amount isn't enough to stop me from plummeting down the ranks .
Something suddenly changed, and it wasn't trivial . If they don't want us to spend gems to refresh the roster, they should remove the feature and announce it . If they don't want us to count on bots to stay afloat, they should remove them and announce it. And if they want the arena to be for hardcore/paying players, they should announce it and remove it from the daily quests.
Every time they break the arena, I delay paying for the game (not that they need my money) . They never seem to get it right for very long...
What I do know is that I've been playing this game daily without fall for two years . I'd need maybe 20-30 gems daily to complete the daily quest up to whatever change they made recently . At the moment, ten times that amount isn't enough to stop me from plummeting down the ranks .
Something suddenly changed, and it wasn't trivial . If they don't want us to spend gems to refresh the roster, they should remove the feature and announce it . If they don't want us to count on bots to stay afloat, they should remove them and announce it. And if they want the arena to be for hardcore/paying players, they should announce it and remove it from the daily quests.
Every time they break the arena, I delay paying for the game (not that they need my money) . They never seem to get it right for very long...
If you're plummeting on defense and needing to refresh so much the problem is your team and gear. You have dodged posting it multiple times now. So I'm going to again assume you know your team is to weak and continue to make excuses instead of acknowledging this and asking for help making it better.
I'm not saying arena is in a good spot as it is bad again. Yet you should probably at least have a team capable of competing in G4 if you wish to play in G4.
I have a decent defense that people probably don't want to deal with/risk fighting as you can see from attached SS how often it is being hit on a weekend during a fragment champion arena tournament.
If you're plummeting on defense and needing to refresh so much the problem is your team and gear. You have dodged posting it multiple times now. So I'm going to again assume you know your team is to weak and continue to make excuses instead of acknowledging this and asking for help making it better.
I'm not saying arena is in a good spot as it is bad again. Yet you should probably at least have a team capable of competing in G4 if you wish to play in G4.
I have a decent defense that people probably don't want to deal with/risk fighting as you can see from attached SS how often it is being hit on a weekend during a fragment champion arena tournament.
A canary may have no place in a coal mine, but if it dies in the mine, what do you do?
"Oh, silly canary, you shouldn't be in the mine."
Kinda missing the point.
I am in G4 still, but several clan members who have been in G4 a long time have found themselves struggling especially at this reset, it just gets rougher every week it seems.
I think it is time to stop telling people 'farm dragon 20 a lot' as this is not sufficient anymore. The teams i am picking on are all speed nuke teams since the rest of the teams currently in lower G4 are pretty awful to go for.
I dont know if the addition of G5 was intended to make things harder, but the arena is more difficult now than it was 6 months ago when everyone was complaining. A speed nuke team is no longer sufficient, no matter how fast you are..you need some of the 'cheat sheet' champs to be secure now.
A canary may have no place in a coal mine, but if it dies in the mine, what do you do?
"Oh, silly canary, you shouldn't be in the mine."
Kinda missing the point.
I don't think we're missing the point. I think *you* are. You were able to stay in G4 before by spending gems to refresh until you got the pages of free wins. Now that those pages are gone, you can't stay in G4 with your team.
The solution is to fix your team. The arena system isn't changing.
Arena has been creeping to greater difficulty for a long long time. It definitly got much harder to farm medals in G4 when G5 was added. This week it got much much more difficult. I'm wondering if a lot of players were neglecting arena this week, due to the champion tourny, and staying lower in G4 than they normally do?
Arena has been creeping to greater difficulty for a long long time. It definitly got much harder to farm medals in G4 when G5 was added. This week it got much much more difficult. I'm wondering if a lot of players were neglecting arena this week, due to the champion tourny, and staying lower in G4 than they normally do?
i think these blips are too specific to put much value in. we'd need to see the data smoothed out over a much larger sample size to confirm, and unfortunately, people will only post to say "it's harder", they won't really be saying much if it is easy.
personally, I haven't noticed any difference at all - in classic arena. 3v3 however, has been *way* easier lately than usual, not in terms of the difficulty of teams, but in terms of how many points necessary to remain at my current rank.
a few weeks ago, I needed around 1500 points just to get into silver 3. lately, i can remain in silver 3 with as little as 900 points, and i can climb to silver 4 with as few as 1200.
i think these blips are too specific to put much value in. we'd need to see the data smoothed out over a much larger sample size to confirm, and unfortunately, people will only post to say "it's harder", they won't really be saying much if it is easy.
personally, I haven't noticed any difference at all - in classic arena. 3v3 however, has been *way* easier lately than usual, not in terms of the difficulty of teams, but in terms of how many points necessary to remain at my current rank.
a few weeks ago, I needed around 1500 points just to get into silver 3. lately, i can remain in silver 3 with as little as 900 points, and i can climb to silver 4 with as few as 1200.
I agree with what you're saying. I was just wondering if anyone else's anectodal experience was similar.
I think everything you said makes sense, but from Plarium's perspective it's a difficult pill to swallow, I'd imagine. In the short term, possibly even in the medium term, having the system as-is encourages spending. If they made the arena system "easier", especially to reach the few rewards that are worth getting (Arb, Ramantu, etc), people would spend less. Conversely, making it as hard as possible makes people spend more to reach that level.
They burn their player bank in the process, but that's the nature of the game. The fact this game even exists after 3+ years is probably well beyond their expectation, and I'm sure there are quite a few people over at Plarium that are simply saying "well, let's milk this game for all we can before people move on to other things". By making it easier to get those rewards, they are quite probably going to just lower their overall earnings from the game.
For my part, I'd say the arena is the thing that least encourages me to spend.
What encourages me to spend are (1) prizes/progress lying just out of reach, and (2) saving time.
Gold IV is about as "within reach" as the Moon, and arena progress doesn't save much time anyway, at least for those of us who prefer PVE content and are participating in arena play mainly for Great Hall purposes. The Great Hall takes tens of thousands of wins to fully upgrade even if you're in Gold IV, so it doesn't feel like getting there is a big time saver.
