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Live Arena Matchmaking is extremely unfair and stupid

Live Arena Matchmaking is extremely unfair and stupid

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harleQuinnModerator
May 4, 2023, 21:3205/04/23
02/24/19
7218
Trips

Yes, I am stuck at 149x / 150y

Win one, get smashed. Repeat. Lol. Hoping my new SS warlord helps, but want to glyph during cvc 

I am only moving up like 15 points a day. Losing at least one match a day to disconnection errors isn't helping me.

Although it seems you understand that losing in Live Arena is just gonna be a thing that happens, and you have to improve or lose. Eventually ALL of us will find our home somewhere in the ranking system and get stuck unless we grow. 

Unfortunately for folks used to winning 90% of their pick and choose easy fights in Classic with their defense loss limits, Live Arena is gonna be closer to 50% for everyone. SMH.

dthorne04Moderator
May 4, 2023, 21:3705/04/23
12/30/20
5343
harleQuinn

I am only moving up like 15 points a day. Losing at least one match a day to disconnection errors isn't helping me.

Although it seems you understand that losing in Live Arena is just gonna be a thing that happens, and you have to improve or lose. Eventually ALL of us will find our home somewhere in the ranking system and get stuck unless we grow. 

Unfortunately for folks used to winning 90% of their pick and choose easy fights in Classic with their defense loss limits, Live Arena is gonna be closer to 50% for everyone. SMH.

"Unfortunately for folks used to winning 90% of their pick and choose easy fights in Classic with their defense loss limits, Live Arena is gonna be closer to 50% for everyone. SMH."

I'm fairly certain at this point that this is leading to massive misconceptions about what a competitive PvP environment can and should look like.

Live arena matchmaking getting to a better place via stronger accounts making their way to Silver and easy fights are two different things, though I think these ideas are getting mixed up. Folks still need to do the things necessary to excel.

May 4, 2023, 21:3805/04/23
12/19/19
5972
harleQuinn

I am only moving up like 15 points a day. Losing at least one match a day to disconnection errors isn't helping me.

Although it seems you understand that losing in Live Arena is just gonna be a thing that happens, and you have to improve or lose. Eventually ALL of us will find our home somewhere in the ranking system and get stuck unless we grow. 

Unfortunately for folks used to winning 90% of their pick and choose easy fights in Classic with their defense loss limits, Live Arena is gonna be closer to 50% for everyone. SMH.

Definitely, I know I can't compete with the top. Where my 50% ends up being... who knows.  But my strengths in tag arena have 0 translation here 😆. My shield set sandlashed doesn't cut it.


harleQuinnModerator
May 4, 2023, 21:4105/04/23
02/24/19
7218
Trips

Definitely, I know I can't compete with the top. Where my 50% ends up being... who knows.  But my strengths in tag arena have 0 translation here 😆. My shield set sandlashed doesn't cut it.


I'm with you there. I've just regeared four champs this week after a full 15k energy in Sand Devil. Happy with where they are going, but they're nowhere near good enough for Live.

Good enough for G3 Tag with CvC pushes into G4 Tag... good enough to sneak a Plat finish. Nowhere near good enough for better than a 60% WR in Silver 1 Live. It is REALLY tough to deal with +3 Siphi/ +4 Rotos/ Taras/ Marichka /+2 Warlord lmao

May 4, 2023, 22:2805/04/23
06/25/20
6185
oblivion01332

why are you being matched against them? because your account is high enough level to deal with most compositions that are put against you, you have a fair chance even if the odds are against you slightly, which can change on every team setup people put against you, also the "advancment" you refer to here is based on rng, you are at roughly the same skill level as them they just got better pulls. when we see a level 50-60-70-80 being faced off on an average base against level 100s even to this day in bronze and silver this is a completely diferent matter, this is a huge progression difference that should not be facing each other, and yes i understand advancement through ranks but as iv said in previous posts this will take months to even its self out, a poor launched update caused this.


also i dont recall asking to me put into gold and be given a free ticket? or being asked to get into the top 100? im just asking you why lvl 50-60s still have to frequently fight level 100s in a virtually 1 sided fight in bronze and silver ranks which is literally what level bracket this was intended for.


all you do is talk about ur own account progression which has no relevence in my eyes as you are you are high enough level with a big enough roster to work around it, you have a fair chance in most of ur fights as a higher level player unlike most other lower levels here which are going through something completely different to what you experience, but you seem unable to view it from any other concept but ur own.

You want to have your cake and eat it too? Fine.

If you want to be able to climb ranks at your own pace, and not have to face what you consider unfair fights, then give me enough free tokens to automatically clear all of the bronze-level arena tier reward ranks. If you do, then sure, I have no problem starting at silver and continuing from there.

If not, why should you get to earn those rewards faster than me?

May 5, 2023, 02:3205/05/23
10/01/22
463
harleQuinn

It definitely sounds to me like a want a free ticket. Patience is the key here. Patience.

I am not winning as much in Live Arena as I wish I was. My response was to play Live Arena significantly less, giving me more time to farm Iron Twins and Sand Devil. I've regeared all the major nukers and arena champs on my account. The only way I'm going to keep advancing in Live Arena is 1) Strengthening my account 2) Giving the tiers more time and space to separate.

All you do is talk about your own account progression which has no relevance in my eyes as you are in a position where you should be focusing on PvE content rather than complaining about Live Arena in the first few weeks of the system. Unfortunately you don't have the experience in Arena yet to know that as good as my account is, it has less than 1% chance of winning against the uber krakens I am discussing here, and shows you are yet unable to fully see the arena system as a whole... that I am at as much a disadvantage against them as you are against me. The difference is that I know it's a competitive, ranked system, and until those folks move up, I'm gonna have to fight them. I know you likely won't fight me though. I have seen a single opponent below level 80 this whole time, and less than 5 below 90. 95% of my opponents or more are level 100.

again you ignored all my key points (no where did i ask for a free ticket, as a mod on this forum u should read what people are typing instead of forcing words into their mouth) bronze and silver is designed or lower levels period, plarium screwed the launch and the entire tier system has gone to shit until it corrects its self.


i wont respond to any of ur future comments as ur opinion is biased and 1 sided, if you cant see a problem with lvl 50s fighting level 100s then there is no hope.

May 5, 2023, 02:3505/05/23
10/01/22
463
kramaswamy.kr

You want to have your cake and eat it too? Fine.

If you want to be able to climb ranks at your own pace, and not have to face what you consider unfair fights, then give me enough free tokens to automatically clear all of the bronze-level arena tier reward ranks. If you do, then sure, I have no problem starting at silver and continuing from there.

If not, why should you get to earn those rewards faster than me?

WHERE? am i asking for my cake or anyone elses slices cake and eat it? where do i say i should rank faster than easier than you? what i am saying is a lvl 50 vs 100 is unfair, not hard to process

dthorne04Moderator
May 5, 2023, 03:2505/05/23
May 5, 2023, 03:54(edited)
12/30/20
5343
oblivion01332

again you ignored all my key points (no where did i ask for a free ticket, as a mod on this forum u should read what people are typing instead of forcing words into their mouth) bronze and silver is designed or lower levels period, plarium screwed the launch and the entire tier system has gone to shit until it corrects its self.


i wont respond to any of ur future comments as ur opinion is biased and 1 sided, if you cant see a problem with lvl 50s fighting level 100s then there is no hope.

By asking for any sort of alteration to matchups in a competitive PvP environment where winners reap the benefits you are quite literally asking for a free ticket or some iteration of it. Simple logic there.

Furthermore, perhaps you should chill with the accusations there and think about what you write before you post, instead. Given you are asking for players who are missing some combination of gear grind, experience and available champions to have an easier time than the rest of us, everyone telling you that you're asking for a free ride is spot on. 

I am rather unsure what being a moderator on the forum has to do anything in this instance given that moderator has given you well reasoned, thought out replies and you continue to perpetually whine in response.

Nowhere has it been said that Bronze and Silver is designed for lower levels and this is an arbitrary take. You need to realize that not every piece of content is meant to be beaten by everyone immediately, and Live Arena is one of those pieces of content. If you aren't beating all 3 Hard Doom Towers, able to make it to Gold Tag, farming D25's at the minimum then I would say expecting success in Live Arena to the degree you seem to be is delusional. There is simply no reason to believe anyone that isn't in that subset of players is going to have the gear, champions and knowledge to do so.

Though you use the most absurd example of the matchmaking disparity for effect, the realistic and much more common ones (80 vs. 100, 90 vs. 100, etc.) tend to be far from the best metric of success or failiure, as well as judging the strength of an account. This is another arbitrary stance as one could get to 100 just by grinding campaign while simultaneously not having done enough gear and masteries grinding to be fully effective in Arena. I was one of those such players and it took me a long, long time to make up that gap in gear. Not all level 100s, 90s, etc. are created equal.

Lastly, I keep seeing you mention that the stabilization of matchmaking in Bronze was a lie. I have seen countless screenshots of matchmaking in Bronze leveling out as better players make it to Silver. Perhaps you are conflating an expectation for free wins with something else, though.

May 5, 2023, 03:5205/05/23
06/25/20
6185
oblivion01332

WHERE? am i asking for my cake or anyone elses slices cake and eat it? where do i say i should rank faster than easier than you? what i am saying is a lvl 50 vs 100 is unfair, not hard to process

I'm not sure how I could make this more clear.

If you and I are playing people who are each roughly equivalent to our capabilities, then we are each going to progress at roughly the same rate.

Why do you think that is fair?

May 5, 2023, 05:3905/05/23
10/01/22
463
dthorne04

By asking for any sort of alteration to matchups in a competitive PvP environment where winners reap the benefits you are quite literally asking for a free ticket or some iteration of it. Simple logic there.

Furthermore, perhaps you should chill with the accusations there and think about what you write before you post, instead. Given you are asking for players who are missing some combination of gear grind, experience and available champions to have an easier time than the rest of us, everyone telling you that you're asking for a free ride is spot on. 

I am rather unsure what being a moderator on the forum has to do anything in this instance given that moderator has given you well reasoned, thought out replies and you continue to perpetually whine in response.

Nowhere has it been said that Bronze and Silver is designed for lower levels and this is an arbitrary take. You need to realize that not every piece of content is meant to be beaten by everyone immediately, and Live Arena is one of those pieces of content. If you aren't beating all 3 Hard Doom Towers, able to make it to Gold Tag, farming D25's at the minimum then I would say expecting success in Live Arena to the degree you seem to be is delusional. There is simply no reason to believe anyone that isn't in that subset of players is going to have the gear, champions and knowledge to do so.

Though you use the most absurd example of the matchmaking disparity for effect, the realistic and much more common ones (80 vs. 100, 90 vs. 100, etc.) tend to be far from the best metric of success or failiure, as well as judging the strength of an account. This is another arbitrary stance as one could get to 100 just by grinding campaign while simultaneously not having done enough gear and masteries grinding to be fully effective in Arena. I was one of those such players and it took me a long, long time to make up that gap in gear. Not all level 100s, 90s, etc. are created equal.

Lastly, I keep seeing you mention that the stabilization of matchmaking in Bronze was a lie. I have seen countless screenshots of matchmaking in Bronze leveling out as better players make it to Silver. Perhaps you are conflating an expectation for free wins with something else, though.

well before i go through this i want to point out for the 5th time, im not asking for a free ride, feel free to quote me if i did? infact the question i asked is 5 worlds apart from this, so kindly like the moderator before you stop putting words in my mouth. and my words are not accusations, you can read them in clear text before ur own eyes, because im not saying the things you are claiming me to say. also me disagreeing with someones biased opinion is not whining, glad we cleared the first part up.


now on to ur next point ur right, no where does it say silver and bronze should be for level 50s and 60s, but lets take a look at classic arena for example, do i see it flooded with unwinnable compositions of level 70-100s that cannot be progressed through? strangely enough i do not because when does it start to get tough? once you hit the top of gold and plat, because the ranking has played out with classic arena, but lets be honest and not kid our self here, bronze and silver ranking is for lower levels, this is why a ranked system exists so that characters of all levels can participate in content at a fair extent of there own abilities, also you are implying people want to "beat this content straight away" no one is saying this, they just want to participate in content that is available for all in a fair manner, why should they not be able to do this just so you and other high levels can get some free food wins?


also you seem to think when i say the things i do im talking from a personal perpective, im reletively high level and in all the examples i have given i have used lower level players as the example, not my self, like you are doing with all ur own anaology. also ur arguement for player level is absurb, ur using the most extreme example you can of a guy being level 100 without ever having stepped foot in the arena, even if this near impossible scenario did happen this person would most likely be stocked with the godliest 6 star items on the planet giving them an advantage over a significantly lower level. and again, you would have higher strengths in 1 area than the other level 100 would have in other areas, works out being "fair" regardless, a level 50 vs a 100 is not fair.

and for ur last statement yes, it was a lie, they told us it would fix it self within days, were nearing a month, again im not talking out my ass i talk with fact, they lied, they knew with opening times of arena, the average person getting 10 arena coins per day etc that it would not "play out" in a few days,they could have known/figured this out before hand, which is why my original suggestion was to increase arena coins dramatically to help the ranked system play out in a much faster and more realistic time frame, not to "give me a free ride all the way to plat so i can get all the rewards as fast as u" as you seem to keep shoving into my mouth. also i dont think you looking at screenshots of a few of examples is justification for what ur trying to base this off if were still seeing heavy numbers of level 80-100s in bronze/silver beating the crap out of poor level 50-60s who have just as much right to partake in content as you or anyone else does, if anything you seem to think you have more of a right to partake in this content than a lower level does, i believe EVERYONE should be able to partake in this content fairly ,not just you.



May 5, 2023, 05:4805/05/23
10/01/22
463
kramaswamy.kr

I'm not sure how I could make this more clear.

If you and I are playing people who are each roughly equivalent to our capabilities, then we are each going to progress at roughly the same rate.

Why do you think that is fair?

i think you misunderstand me because in a way im agreeing with you, my original suggestion days ater this launched was to give everyone way more arena refills so we could see ranked play out faster, instead were a month in using lower levels as food still, again no where am i asking for faster progression than anyone else, i just want a realistic ranked system.

May 5, 2023, 06:0505/05/23
09/14/20
937
oblivion01332

well before i go through this i want to point out for the 5th time, im not asking for a free ride, feel free to quote me if i did? infact the question i asked is 5 worlds apart from this, so kindly like the moderator before you stop putting words in my mouth. and my words are not accusations, you can read them in clear text before ur own eyes, because im not saying the things you are claiming me to say. also me disagreeing with someones biased opinion is not whining, glad we cleared the first part up.


now on to ur next point ur right, no where does it say silver and bronze should be for level 50s and 60s, but lets take a look at classic arena for example, do i see it flooded with unwinnable compositions of level 70-100s that cannot be progressed through? strangely enough i do not because when does it start to get tough? once you hit the top of gold and plat, because the ranking has played out with classic arena, but lets be honest and not kid our self here, bronze and silver ranking is for lower levels, this is why a ranked system exists so that characters of all levels can participate in content at a fair extent of there own abilities, also you are implying people want to "beat this content straight away" no one is saying this, they just want to participate in content that is available for all in a fair manner, why should they not be able to do this just so you and other high levels can get some free food wins?


also you seem to think when i say the things i do im talking from a personal perpective, im reletively high level and in all the examples i have given i have used lower level players as the example, not my self, like you are doing with all ur own anaology. also ur arguement for player level is absurb, ur using the most extreme example you can of a guy being level 100 without ever having stepped foot in the arena, even if this near impossible scenario did happen this person would most likely be stocked with the godliest 6 star items on the planet giving them an advantage over a significantly lower level. and again, you would have higher strengths in 1 area than the other level 100 would have in other areas, works out being "fair" regardless, a level 50 vs a 100 is not fair.

and for ur last statement yes, it was a lie, they told us it would fix it self within days, were nearing a month, again im not talking out my ass i talk with fact, they lied, they knew with opening times of arena, the average person getting 10 arena coins per day etc that it would not "play out" in a few days,they could have known/figured this out before hand, which is why my original suggestion was to increase arena coins dramatically to help the ranked system play out in a much faster and more realistic time frame, not to "give me a free ride all the way to plat so i can get all the rewards as fast as u" as you seem to keep shoving into my mouth. also i dont think you looking at screenshots of a few of examples is justification for what ur trying to base this off if were still seeing heavy numbers of level 80-100s in bronze/silver beating the crap out of poor level 50-60s who have just as much right to partake in content as you or anyone else does, if anything you seem to think you have more of a right to partake in this content than a lower level does, i believe EVERYONE should be able to partake in this content fairly ,not just you.



One of the main issues is that you have a very individual concept of what is fair and what is not fair. That mixes badly with what I would call impatience. You have been told time and time again (and you mention it yourself) that it takes time to sort out...but you want it immediately and now. Some systems just take time to sort themselves out inherently. At the same time, the majority of responders seem to think along the line of 'he wants to have kind of free tickets'. Perhaps you should reread your posts and wonder why most people think this way instead of accusing all those responders of not comprehending what you wrote. Perhaps the source of the difference lies with your texts and not with the responses.

You are also comparing Classic arena with Life arena, which are two totally different ranking systems...

May 5, 2023, 06:1705/05/23
10/01/22
463
Matrim

One of the main issues is that you have a very individual concept of what is fair and what is not fair. That mixes badly with what I would call impatience. You have been told time and time again (and you mention it yourself) that it takes time to sort out...but you want it immediately and now. Some systems just take time to sort themselves out inherently. At the same time, the majority of responders seem to think along the line of 'he wants to have kind of free tickets'. Perhaps you should reread your posts and wonder why most people think this way instead of accusing all those responders of not comprehending what you wrote. Perhaps the source of the difference lies with your texts and not with the responses.

You are also comparing Classic arena with Life arena, which are two totally different ranking systems...

this is my point, why give people 10 arena coins per day let it play out at a snail pace? and im not asking for it immediatly, infact plarium promised it in their own statement by saying it would take several days to play out? if we saw more arena coins added we would see ranks shift , we would see higher tier players sat in gold + where they belong and noobs sat in bronze/low silver as the ranking system was intended for.


and maybe people should stop assuming things and read the text im writing, im looking for fairness and balance , again no where have i stated i want a free ride, ironically enough the only people that say this to me are the level 100s who are literally getting a free ride :D 

May 5, 2023, 07:2505/05/23
09/14/20
937
oblivion01332

this is my point, why give people 10 arena coins per day let it play out at a snail pace? and im not asking for it immediatly, infact plarium promised it in their own statement by saying it would take several days to play out? if we saw more arena coins added we would see ranks shift , we would see higher tier players sat in gold + where they belong and noobs sat in bronze/low silver as the ranking system was intended for.


and maybe people should stop assuming things and read the text im writing, im looking for fairness and balance , again no where have i stated i want a free ride, ironically enough the only people that say this to me are the level 100s who are literally getting a free ride :D 

Obviously you are not lvl 100 if you are talking about getting free rides. 90% of my matches are against other lvl 100...

May 5, 2023, 09:3705/05/23
May 5, 2023, 09:40(edited)
10/01/22
463
Matrim

Obviously you are not lvl 100 if you are talking about getting free rides. 90% of my matches are against other lvl 100...

ur right im not level 100, im not low level either, now imagine being me and lower level than me and most of ur fights still comes up as level 100? i mean u sound disgruntled ur being put against ur own level bracket? 


in terms of what im saying about "free ride" here which was a joke by the way, was a level 100 cannot be paired against a higher level than him self,you can very easily of course be paired against a lower level..... a lower level on the other hand sits at the other end of that spectrum, 90% of the people they fight will be insanely higher level.... while still being in bronze tier so yes as a level 100 even basing it off simple rng that u cant be put against a higher level will mathematically tell you level 100s are getting a more free ride on this than lower levels. fact.


simple solution, add more arena coins and let ranks ease out like they should have done from the start.

May 5, 2023, 12:5005/05/23
12/19/19
5972
oblivion01332

ur right im not level 100, im not low level either, now imagine being me and lower level than me and most of ur fights still comes up as level 100? i mean u sound disgruntled ur being put against ur own level bracket? 


in terms of what im saying about "free ride" here which was a joke by the way, was a level 100 cannot be paired against a higher level than him self,you can very easily of course be paired against a lower level..... a lower level on the other hand sits at the other end of that spectrum, 90% of the people they fight will be insanely higher level.... while still being in bronze tier so yes as a level 100 even basing it off simple rng that u cant be put against a higher level will mathematically tell you level 100s are getting a more free ride on this than lower levels. fact.


simple solution, add more arena coins and let ranks ease out like they should have done from the start.

"simple solution, add more arena coins and let ranks ease out like they should have done from the start. "

This is the one point you make that is potentially valid.  It is taking longer to spread out, though I don't recall seeing anyone say it would take "days", that would seem unrealilistic if not impossible with the +5/-4 system.

But it is spreading out, the difference between S1 and S2 is drastic and certainly working as intended.  Currently only about 2000 probably in S2 or higher, so everyone else is Bronze or S1.  Unfortunately S1 is going to be where everyone is complaining until the higher ranks fill, and even then will still be complaining because they just plain suck at arena (never had to learn in nerfed/broken classic, and dont do tag because its too hard).

You get 10 free tokens a day, you may have to leave 8 of 10 or get stomped... next week will be 7, then 6.... eventually (not days -- please link this if plarium actually said this.  I would call it an error not a lie if so).  Lack of patience to be able to succeed in content that you afre not ready for is still the primary problem...

We need a new thread:  NON-MATCHMAKING LIVE ARENA suggestions.  Some of which will help make more "fair" -- though this is not an objective imo lol.

1. More free refills for next 30 days

2. Change Live Arena availability from 4 2-hour windows to 8 1-hour windows every 3 hours.

3. ?????


While I think your suggestion #1 will help, the bigger problem likely is lack of participation at all or people actually not using the 10 every day.  I actually thin.k adding "Particpate in Live Arena 5x" to advanced quests will solve this.  NOT win, or use faction only, ... lol

 

harleQuinnModerator
May 5, 2023, 13:0305/05/23
02/24/19
7218
Matrim

Obviously you are not lvl 100 if you are talking about getting free rides. 90% of my matches are against other lvl 100...

90% might be a low estimate.  I only need both hands to count the number of non-level 100 opponents I've faced. lol

May 5, 2023, 13:3705/05/23
12/19/19
5972
harleQuinn

90% might be a low estimate.  I only need both hands to count the number of non-level 100 opponents I've faced. lol

What do you think the actual difference is within level 100 now? Not sure how to state that question lol...

Like are the top top 200 or 300 compared to a brand new 100...


harleQuinnModerator
May 5, 2023, 13:3905/05/23
02/24/19
7218
Trips

What do you think the actual difference is within level 100 now? Not sure how to state that question lol...

Like are the top top 200 or 300 compared to a brand new 100...


I think that gap is bigger than level 20 to a brand new 100.

May 5, 2023, 13:4805/05/23
12/19/19
5972
harleQuinn

I think that gap is bigger than level 20 to a brand new 100.

Leave the exaggeration to me... I wouldn't go that far.  Though even day 1 level 100s can vary from actual level 100 to 300 based on skill, $$$, intelligence not necessarily in that order. 

And yes I am attempting to hijack and derail the matchmaking debacle...