heidenherz said:

(btw. for everyone whining about Hegemon, just get a cleanser in immunity gear and have your peace of mind and start beating those hegemons, it's so easy to counter)

Not necessarily.  For starters, not everyone has a viable cleanse champion.  Even if they did, having to build a composition specifically to counter one single champion is ludicrous.  Makes you strong against Hegemon, but potentially weak against other compositions.  That's not a smart move if you want to be top-tier competitive in arena.

Secondly, there are some players who have instead chosen to focus on pure damage with Hegemon.  So, instead of a ton of accuracy, they put cruel sets on him and load him up with tons of damage.  I once had one that nearly one-shot two of my champions. 

No matter what counters you make, he is still broken and gives a HUGE advantage when geared properly. 

-------

But back to the topic at hand... I have to agree with a previous post that said this is coming off as a bait and switch.  Your company SHOULD have tested this champion in advance, and anyone with even half a brain could've looked at his kit beforehand and saw it was OP.  With previous underhanded actions by this company (ex. Foli), I would not be the least bit surprised if this was intentional - to bait people with a powerful new champion, all to later destroy him after they have started wasting their money.

But anyway, based on the legality and morality of it, it's a bit late to be changing him now.  Roshcard is OP, Hegemon is god-broken, and now Tormin is another addition. 

How about instead of worrying about nerfing the new guy before he even gets fully tested, go put your focus on balancing all the garbage you've pumped out as of late, or even better, the champions that have been around for a year plus now that are garbage?  When you have legendaries (that based on average prices of shards, cost upwards of $400 each, let alone $200+ worth of tomes and other items to max them) that are more worthless than some rares, and your company ignores it for months upon months, something is SERIOUSLY wrong there.

People get bored because they have to play the SAME champions over and over due to a horrible lack of balance.  The only thing that makes people quit more than boredom is the absurd prices.  Your company has all their priorities completely wrong.  Whoever is running things over there needs to be replaced with someone more competent.  Just being honest.  Look around the web or any ALL content creators and you'll see this to be true.

heidenherz said:

(btw. for everyone whining about Hegemon, just get a cleanser in immunity gear and have your peace of mind and start beating those hegemons, it's so easy to counter)

Not necessarily.  For starters, not everyone has a viable cleanse champion.  Even if they did, having to build a composition specifically to counter one single champion is ludicrous.  Makes you strong against Hegemon, but potentially weak against other compositions.  That's not a smart move if you want to be top-tier competitive in arena.

Secondly, there are some players who have instead chosen to focus on pure damage with Hegemon.  So, instead of a ton of accuracy, they put cruel sets on him and load him up with tons of damage.  I once had one that nearly one-shot two of my champions. 

No matter what counters you make, he is still broken and gives a HUGE advantage when geared properly. 

Hi to all!

I have something to say.

Tormin should never be changed. You guys created him, you have tested him and you know what hes capable. And you gave him for very expensive fusion event. So, tons of people pay for that. WE EARN IT, NOW WE CLAM IT! Do not do some stupid things. Here is some good answer for all:

He is very desirable in Arena. So what? He is not unbeatable. Only 300 people can be in arena platinum rank. Lets say it's gonna be more than 1000 people who will got Tormin. So 700 people will not be in platinum Tier anyway. But this is now more interesting because people who cant reach platinum Tier now can be in it and someone who are maybe will be in golden 4. Next week may be different because its skill is randomly. 

Resistance is also answer to his skill. 

Other champions like FOLI have answer to Tormin skills. So instead of changing Tormin in the future you can make more champions who could resisted his skills. 

Arena is only one aspect of the game... There a lot more.. Nightmare campaign, Faction wars, Dungeons and in the future more...

So PLEASE, listen your community and don't change nothing.. More different people will be able to rotate in the Arena. That's good.

Also teams with heroes who not have buffs or healing will get more desirable against him and now are not.

There is so many reasons to not change it.

The last one:

Imagine that some company give you to buy something what is special to you. And now, when you buy that product they decided to change that specification you buy the product. How would you feel? Will be fair? Maybe next time you should better think of a skills. No one force YOU to give all those skills AND you tested him before he's lunched. You can only do other champs better. Never do them weaker because lots of money people giving for specific champs and they even cant get them. He is Legendary... he is a holy GRAIL like every other in their way. He is good in Arena.. So what? What he can do to clan boss? or other bosses who are in the game and are immune to all that stuff?

In the name of your HONOR, leave him like he is and be FAIR to ALL.

Thanks for reading!

Are you kidding me??

Tormin is awesome but, NOT as powerfull as you think really.

What about Valkyrie or Martyr??? <- she is OVERPOWER really.

okay??!!

If you nerf him, you should refund my TIME, MATERIALS, MONEY. AND I will do next game. bye PLARIUM.

His passive is broken as it is. but in my opinion its not fair to just nerf him now.

nerf his passive so it only works only on buffs and not on turn-meter/heals. this way all the random freezes from masteries stop.

but compensate him for the nerf by buffing his other skills.there are lots of good options here like :

-increase chance to freeze from A1 by 10%

-increase damage on A2 so it can nuke

-increase chance to provoke to 100% on A3

maybe do all those things and we get a better champion AND have a lot more ways to effectively counter him. this way not so many people would be disappointed.

Tormin is good as he is. Leave him like he is. Good legendary champion.

Imagine a team like Skullcrown, Hegemon, Big'un and Madame Serries.
What could Tormin do to team like that? Nothing. The point is against him you only should go with debuffers and no with buffers.
I've beat teams with him several times in the arena with team like above so it's not unbeatable.
Most important thing, the game is now perfectly balanced because before him all was about speed, and now we have lots of other combinations, and that is good and that is interesting.
Maybe more focus should be on other legendary champions that should be like you said once "HOLY GRAIL" and some of them are not.
Thank you

I think yon NEED to nerf it's passive. And, Yes, i also crafted this dwarf.

Frost on only one of the 3 perks and once per turn, and no resurrection, it's too OP.

As a compensation u can make his 1-3 skill's more powerfull, so he is played as you wanted with sinergy with burn...

Now all just put the dwarf in their pack with 600 accuracy, and don't give a shit about 1-3 abilities, it wins the gamt only with it's passive, and is totaly broken.

You all cry u'll lose ur money if they nerf the dwarf and u will get not what u paid for.... But what about all those players who bought game resources to make it up for their pack to be in platina or be in G4 by buy buying speed items and etc.? You just shit on them with such a champion, cause in condition as it is, it gives very little chance to beat any Tormin pack with single speed pack, and no chance at all with double speed pack.

Silence from Plarium. What a move, create a purposefully OP champion, big him up for months in advance as being 'The champion to change the meta'

Then within days of release start talking about nerfing him once the sales team are happy with the amount of purchases the player base has put down. Nice bait and switch Plarium. I don't have Tormin, and I probably won't get him - But if I see this guy get nerfed then that once and for all settles that Plarium will really do ANYTHING for a quick bit of cash flow and it should show us all it's time to move on to the next game.

ReaperOz said:

Once again, if the champ can't cause waves in the speed meta, then no one will take any notice of him and continue to play the speed meta.  As soon as people begin to counter him with resistance and reduce accuracy debuffs, people will think twice about using him and the speed meta and lockdown meta will balance out.

Tormin does not need a nerf, at least not until some real time has passed (the event isn't even over!!), and a chance has been given for teams to learn his weaknesses and not just cry about his strengths, before anything is done.  To nerf him now would be a huge mistake and any hope of changing the meta would be lost with him.  Not to mention the thousands of angry players you'll have on your hands!

Regards,

ofc he doesn`t need a nerf he should get a buff! at least 50% change on his passive and what the heck plarium should also release him in a pack for 1000$ so the whales can get him easier.

Hi. Instead nerf of the Tormin will be better to open crafting other hero permanent bases (who can be created without donation). All players who spend their money on crafting Tormin will be disappointed, because nerf of the new hero it is faud and compensation by 2 legendary books it is nothing, because we want that hero, not the books.

It is necessary to test all new heroes in the sandbox. 

Who will play and spend their money on game were developers cheating?

DO NOT nerf this guys or he becomes unplayable. he is not OP with the procs and skills he has. even now the win rates with him is questionable. I had to go back to my previous arena team. 

JimmyandJack said:

nerf his passive so it only works only on buffs and not on turn-meter/heals. this way all the random freezes from masteries stop.

So in other words,  you want to make sure your speed comp continues working, lol.  No, the whole point of this champion was to finally break the meta we see over and over and over in arena.  I think it's a GOOD thing.  I mean seriously, you aren't bored of the speed comp, where it pretty much just boils down to who is faster?  That's boring.  Tormin the Expensive makes things more interesting.

I am torn on nerfing him.  I have encountered him at times where he froze up my entire team again and again.  Other times, he only froze one and I took him out no problem. 

And until time goes by and people adapt to this new meta, it's hard to say how truly OP it will be.

One thing I will say is that it is a VERY good thing he has a chance to freeze before immunity procs.  If that weren't the case, all that would happen is everyone would just get immunity gear and go right back to the speed meta.  Then, Tormin would become worthless.  No, a set should NOT make a champion non-viable.  That's just not right.

heidenherz said:

 Arena is about sloting different champions for different enemy compositions, not about "build one team to fight them all" O.o

Not once you're in Gold IV or Platinum.  At that point, it's all about who goes first.  That's pretty much it.  You're not familiar with speed comps, are you?  Take a look at my vids in my channel.  They'll show you how to get 4-5 sec wins regularly in Gold IV. ;)

And especially in Platinum, you either make a VERY well rounded composition that is hard to take down, or else you pay TONS of money farming arena to keep your level up.

Although now with Tormin the Expensive, we FINALLY have an alternative to speed comps, as he counters them.  At least for now until they nerf him. :P

AscendantGod said:

JimmyandJack said:

nerf his passive so it only works only on buffs and not on turn-meter/heals. this way all the random freezes from masteries stop.

So in other words,  you want to make sure your speed comp continues working, lol.  No, the whole point of this champion was to finally break the meta we see over and over and over in arena.  I think it's a GOOD thing.  I mean seriously, you aren't bored of the speed comp, where it pretty much just boils down to who is faster?  That's boring.  Tormin the Expensive makes things more interesting.

so you want to make sure you either have this one champ or you can forget about winning with someone who has him?

In order to break speed meta it would be enough if DEF would be buffed so much that it would require def down + weaken + atkup + 2x really strong AOE to have hopes to kill in single turn

speed meta started because ATK > DEF - go fast and you will kill, no one to retaliate so no need def at all ...

Deny fast kills and you will stop speed meta - not introducing another broken champion that circumvent game mechanics (looking at you hegemon ..) in hopes to force speed meta out ...

AscendantGod said:

heidenherz said:

 Arena is about sloting different champions for different enemy compositions, not about "build one team to fight them all" O.o

Not once you're in Gold IV or Platinum.  At that point, it's all about who goes first.  That's pretty much it.  You're not familiar with speed comps, are you?  Take a look at my vids in my channel.  They'll show you how to get 4-5 sec wins regularly in Gold IV. ;)

And especially in Platinum, you either make a VERY well rounded composition that is hard to take down, or else you pay TONS of money farming arena to keep your level up.

Although now with Tormin the Expensive, we FINALLY have an alternative to speed comps, as he counters them.  At least for now until they nerf him. :P

You are very presumptuous, huh? Just because something is against your way of thinking, does not mean that it is not correct for other players.

Not everyone is blessed with all purpose super champs that can deal with each and every siuation in the arena. Also, I am gold 4 with a 1 man defense, so that I won't slip into platinum stress zone. No need for shitty rewards, while I still need a ton of medals for the only important part of arena, the great hall.

I do slot different heroes for different enemies and many top players do that too and yes I do mean in Platinum arena too, since it would be pretty stupid to go against all blue with a green nuker, or against Tormin without my Psylar, just 2 quick examples for my specific roster.

I have 0 issues with you having another opinion, but please stop assuming stuff about people you have no idea about. You should also maybe watch some other videos from arena top players, rather than promoting your own so shamelessly. Hellhades would be one example that goes against what you are trying to say here.

Hey, guys! Once again, thank you all for expressing your thoughts and plunging into discussions, which helps us even more to understand the depth of the issue at hand. Our game designers will take your feedback into consideration when reviewing Tormin.

Regarding fixing AI for other champs, we have composed a doc listing the most pressing of these and forwarded it to our game designers, as well. Of course, patching these up will take some time, but the guys are on it. 

I will now proceed with closing this thread as there is another one that is more active right now. It will be easier to keep things in one place. Please feel free to write your further comments here: https://plarium.com/forum/en/raid-shadow-legends/670_news/175682_tormin-the-cold--part-ii/

Thank you!