This topic is closed

Tormin the Cold. Part II

83 Replies
Community Manager
18 December, 2019, 2:06 PM UTC

Hi, guys! Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts on Tormin with us. We have forwarded your feedback to our game designers. They are going to review it thoroughly and make their decision based on that. The champion will definitely remain strong and a meta changer. What we are going to do is review his Passive Skill, most likely, and fix minor bugs in his performance. We want you to understand (and I can't stress it enough) that we will make sure that he does not lose his incredible strength and uniqueness, you will enjoy using him, and he won't become a Vault guard. We guarantee that. Now, we do apologize for the whole rollercoaster with these changes. But we need to go for it to make sure that the future of the game balance does not suffer because of this aspect.

We do understand that you guys have been working very hard on getting him. And even though the changes that we will introduce will be minor, we are going to give compensation for your effort. The players who will have crafted him upon the Fusion end will receive two Legendary Books.

We also know that you have been waiting for other Legendary champions to be re-balanced for a very long time. We are glad to let you know that this re-balance will come out with 1.13 and will include Sethalia, Shamrock, Yannica and others.

We will also release Faction Wars re-balance in the nearest future, before 1.13 patch, together with some improvements for many champions which will help you pass Crypts stages faster and easier.

Guys, last but not least, we hear you, we see you. We hope that we have not lost you and will do our best to prove that you are what we are here for and we do realize that.

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3
User
18 December, 2019, 3:09 PM UTC
Thanks for the update.  It sounds like the nerf was going to happen regardless of what we had to say.  I think the 2 books for free is extremely weak on Plarium's part for compensation considering how brutal this fusion has been.  Great to see your addressing some of the weak champions.  Please prove your listening to us and update the worst Legendary and Epic champs in your game.  Start balancing 2-3 a month, and you'll fix a bunch in no time.
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7
User
18 December, 2019, 3:47 PM UTC

I am so nervous.


1) There are some acknowledged bugs with his passive, where it is freezing through 'block debuffs' buffs. Perhaps simply fixing this bug is enough to address the issue.


2) Maybe I'm being overly paraonid, but reassurance that he won't become a vault guardian doesn't mean that he will still be useful in arena. His skills are good enough to run top-level dungeons. I'm worried about whether he will still be the one to FINALLY balance the arena speed meta after changes. I can tell you right now that a single chance to proc per turn on each character is not going to do anything. Also related, but I'm also worried about the effect this nerf will have on Nightmare campaign against the Valkyrie stages.
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3
User
18 December, 2019, 4:20 PM UTC

please understand that we don't need skill books.

if this topic means a one-sided nerf not a counter balancing

it seems obvious that you didn't consider our opinion.

in that case, i am going to find a way to refund my money .
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6
User
18 December, 2019, 4:23 PM UTC

Hi. Instead nerf of the Tormin will be better to open crafting other hero on the permanent bases (who can be created without donation). All players who spend their money on crafting Tormin will be disappointed, because nerf of the new hero it is faud and compensation by 2 legendary books it is nothing, because we want that hero, not the books.


It is necessary to test all new heroes in the sandbox. 


Who will play and spend their money on game were developers cheating?

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8
User
18 December, 2019, 4:48 PM UTC

Some notes:


  1.  Please do not ask for an opinion on if a character should be changed if you are going to do it anyway. It makes us feel like our voice doesn't matter
  2. Please release champion details at least a week in advance so we can give you feedback and know there are gonna be changes before we invest in the characters fusion.
  3. Please give us more clarity on when we can expect 1.13 (pre 2020, post 2020, way later than that?)
  4. 2 Legendary tomes is awesome, but not enough for something like this. At the vary least, rank 5 chickens and over 10 void shards considering the amount of void effort people put into this character.

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11
User
18 December, 2019, 5:59 PM UTC
Why didn't you compensate people after nerfing Reinbeast or Steel Bowyer? Ppl also invested their time and money in them
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6
User
18 December, 2019, 8:19 PM UTC

thank you. i was looking for a good chance to quit the game. that's the time. GOOD JOB PLARIUM GO ON THIS WAY!!

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4
User
18 December, 2019, 8:27 PM UTC

This will actually be good for the health of the game. Yes there will be a lot of people annoyed that they invested money and time in a character that looked too strong from the outset, but it was clear that it would require a change.


Now hopefully they will go back and look at other ones that are over performing or underperforming and tweak them suitably.

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1
User
18 December, 2019, 8:29 PM UTC

Hi Cirilla. i'm kind of new, about to get my free dark athel kind of new. can you have the people working on tormin test him to make sure he is good/ great but not broken? like if they are going to completely change his passive Ability then you might want to increase his damage output a tad.

sometimes the little change to one ability can be the difference between good and garbage.


since im here. make septimus' AI use his a2 because he doesnt... like ever. and switch lugans a3 from attack base to hp based damage.


thanks.


steelcityguy

Chris White.
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5
User
18 December, 2019, 11:44 PM UTC

Future of the game balance suffers because of Hegemon.

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3
User
19 December, 2019, 1:26 AM UTC

Cirilla said:


Hi, guys! Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts on Tormin with us. We have forwarded your feedback to our game designers. They are going to review it thoroughly and make their decision based on that. The champion will definitely remain strong and a meta changer. What we are going to do is review his Passive Skill, most likely, and fix minor bugs in his performance. We want you to understand (and I can't stress it enough) that we will make sure that he does not lose his incredible strength and uniqueness, you will enjoy using him, and he won't become a Vault guard. We guarantee that. Now, we do apologize for the whole rollercoaster with these changes. But we need to go for it to make sure that the future of the game balance does not suffer because of this aspect.

We do understand that you guys have been working very hard on getting him. And even though the changes that we will introduce will be minor, we are going to give compensation for your effort. The players who will have crafted him upon the Fusion end will receive two Legendary Books.

We also know that you have been waiting for other Legendary champions to be re-balanced for a very long time. We are glad to let you know that this re-balance will come out with 1.13 and will include Sethalia, Shamrock, Yannica and others.

We will also release Faction Wars re-balance in the nearest future, before 1.13 patch, together with some improvements for many champions which will help you pass Crypts stages faster and easier.

Guys, last but not least, we hear you, we see you. We hope that we have not lost you and will do our best to prove that you are what we are here for and we do realize that.

Plarium's predicament right now:


Champion is behind two paywalls, costs literally hundreds of dollars worth of in-game purchases (at least $180 at the bare minimum), and after you guys got people committed to him, now you start paying attention to the fact that he is OP and decide to nerf.  To make it worse, you aren't even telling us exactly what is going to be nerfed.  So, we don't know if we should just stop wasting our time to earn him or not. 

Also note that what your company is doing might be illegal.  It's called "bait and switch."  Your company's negligence could have it looking at a class-action lawsuit in the near future.  I'm not even kidding.  I know at least two lawyers are looking into it currently.


You can assure us all you want that he won't end up in the vault, but that doesn't mean it won't end up being the case.  When your company nerfs, they tend to destroy champions.  And if your company implemented the prior nerfs you proposed in the last post, he would become garbage.  I would have no use for him whatsoever if he got nerfed to that extent, and all the countless hours I'm putting into the training, all the shards I'm going to have to open on both buy shards events, and all other resources would have been a complete waste of my time.

You guys are going to be losing a lot of players over this.  This is Foli revisited right here.  This company just can't stop messing up due to greed.  Not being mean, just being honest.  I mean seriously, you slop together a champion, don't even test him, but then make the consumer have to pay hundreds to get him, all to realize after the fact that you were false advertising.  I really wish you guys would start listening to us rather than destroying this game from the inside out.

I understand that in his current state, he is insanely OP.  I mean I dealt with him two times where my entire team was frozen almost the entire fight.  Skill triggers, mastery triggers, gear triggers, etc.  He freezes people up just for sneezing.  There is at least 8-9 masteries alone that can cause him to freeze your champions.  I get it.  The problem is, this shows that your company made zero effort to test him beforehand and let us be the guinea pigs.  So, we are essentially testing a beta, but instead of getting paid to test it, you are making us pay.

And the biggest insult is offering two tomes as consolation.  That is (at best) 1/6th of what we need to max a legendary.  That's not a consolation, it's a slap in the face.


Check out my Raid: Shadow Legends guides, tips, tricks, and much more on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdt-ZXDVTr0b22kmHmeOXxw/videos
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14
User
19 December, 2019, 3:23 AM UTC

I think the decisions you guys make don't actually have anything to do with our opinions. I just read all of them in part I and 95% say it doesn't need to be nerfed, or just needs to have its bugs fixed. I watched lots of vids of people using him in Platinum tier, and he still does lose, and often time it comes down to gear and great hall development.

It seems like you guys had plans to nerf him regardless, but just decided to ask us what we thought in hopes we would agree to make it look mutual.

Not a vault champ doesn't say a lot, and has different meanings to everyone. If you are in plat league and he isn't amazing, he will be a vault champ for arena. Defense teams can win but require the best of gear, while speed teams with hege can push through with medium gear. This champ helped fix that.


2 Legendary books is a joke. I'm sure that's worth maybe $20 USD? 99% of the people who obtained him spent cash, and a ton more than that.


I feel like I'm being ripped off, as its not just a money waste, but an actual time waste over the holidays. Sure its our choice to spend all this time on the holidays farming him, but if I knew a nerf was coming I wouldn't have wasted all my time. Now that I'm 2 rare champs away from getting him, I still feel the need that I need to continue just for I can sleep at night and tell myself I didn't waste my time and money..

Thanks and Merry Christmas. May we line your pockets with cash and you fill our stockings with trash.
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5
User
19 December, 2019, 3:25 AM UTC

Not really bait and switch, generally that is where you are getting an item at an apparent bargain for an expensive item and them substituting it for an inferior item.  Whilst they are potentially going to substitute this champion for an 'inferior' product there was never a bargain here, and at no point were their specific sales for purely void products (shards and potions), and the company would always fall back on the fact that it was an entirely optional fusion, whilst they released this champion prematurely with little thought on the short or long term game implications, their intentions were to only release it to their existing client pool hence no activity on the sales of void products.  Even the current New Year sales item is voidless.  But good luck on the class action.

I personally think it is a massive cluster fuck, but then I honestly cannot fathom why they would continually bring out new champions when there are so many issues with their existing pool.  Why not fix the known issues first before bringing new imbalanced champions out it just seems to be compounding the already apparent situation.  Am expecting some bullshit from Cirilla here about these new champions not affecting other parts of the game development but this situation would make those statements as clear as mud. 


But yeah the compensation package is shit and purely aimed only at people who have fused him already, what about the wasted resources to get to the point of fusing and then realising it is not practical to fuse him.


They are just pissing everybody off here, so much for a Christmas event 





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1
User
19 December, 2019, 4:28 AM UTC

Why ask us if you are going to ignore what was the obvious majority opinion not to nerf?  Anytime a game gives in to the whingers, it's the downhill slide.  Take WoW for a good example.


Meanwhile, whilst you're 're-balancing' legendaries, please include Black Knight in that list.  He is so trash it is not funny.  In what mode would an A3 where you deal more damage with less HP even be close to beneficial?  Either your healers cover it, or you're dead - there's no real middle-ground there.  
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4
User
19 December, 2019, 6:49 AM UTC

Cirilla,


This is great that you take the initiative to ask for your players opinions. However, I think you could give the developers a few suggestions to go about this without enraging those who put in too much efforts to get this champ.


1. Fix bugs with the champ sounds reasonable enough. Those have been pointed out by others already. Don't touch those skills that work as intended.


2. If you feel that this champ is too op, come out with another champ to counter him. I'm sure you have a lot of ideas. And it's not like you stop making any new champs, but now you shouldn't take your own sweet time to release these new 'fix' champs.


Go this way. After all, you make champs to make money in this game. No one can fault you for releasing new 'balancing' champs, cause that's what you do best (no pun intended). That's what make the game interesting.


Go and get em!

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3
User
19 December, 2019, 7:35 AM UTC

Things you are doing are ILLEGAL.

People notice this!

You can't give something for money and after you get paid change for what is paid. Even if you return all invested, NOBODY CAN RETURN THE TIME SPENT ON EVENT.

I mean, PEOPLE INVESTMENT ARE:

all kind of chickens, 
brews,
tons of potions,
even more energy,
gems,
bunch of void heroes,
over 40 M silver for artifact upgrades,
incredibly lots of money to buy shards for champion chase or summoning events,
and MOST IMPORTANT their time to get this champion.

Now when you earn your money you want to change him???  And give us 2 legendary books? LOL!

Are you all crazy? Do you even read our comments? Is it because of  few people say he is OP? The game is extremely based only on speed. Now one hero can balance this aspect and you want to change it? LEAVE him like he is. 

I will remind you once again.. he is not OP an THIS IS ILLEGAL!

All players should have option this Christmas (NOT FROM YOU, BUT FROM SANTA) to return all what they invest and get Tormin for free. And let us see how you would complain for loosing for what your team worked so hard for free! You will lose your people who pay.. not much but pay. And when only whales stay, there will be no fun for 50-100 people to play the game, even youtube wont be interesting for nobody.. 

Be fair! Develop other heroes to answer his strength and you will earn even more money from whales and all will be pleased. 

And we will know you listen us.

happy holidays!


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2
User
19 December, 2019, 7:46 AM UTC

Hi there.

Before I started this fusion, I had a good look on what I need and how good I'm prepared. I had no epics for this and needed 12 rares voids to complete this fusion.  I've made some calculation and I have done my decision. So I invest about 150 $, that much I calculated I will need. And I've start this fusion. I play all the time from 5:00 am to 10:30 pm every day on my job and at home and wherever I go. I can't miss any needed event or tournament, I need potions also, a lots of them that took me 2 extra days. But I will get this guy, because I invest in him. My mobile phone is with me all the time. I have little baby at home, pregnant wife and for God's sake I'm all day on the phone because I read the skills and I wand that guy. And now you saying you will change him. This is absolutely not fair.
He is strong and good but not so OP like you said. He is beatable,but he is  excellent.  And what you will do is make him just "good". Because small differences can make something just good or excellent. I beat him several times, sometimes he beats me so what? The same happens with others champions too. It's not necessary that always the same people and the same champions needs to be on top.

Thanks, bye

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2
User
19 December, 2019, 9:24 AM UTC

I want to share with you guys a sad/funny but true little story.

Christmas is coming and my wife asked me what I want for Christmas. And from all other stuff in the world I said: I want from you to let me to invest 150 $ on one game on my phone (Raid Shadow Legends). My money, just let me do it. 

And she looked at  me weird and she asked me: why? What will you get for all that money? And I answered happily: I will get 3 chances with 6% to get some legendary champion!

She said: Is this the game you hang around all day? 6%? Legendary champion? Are you crazy? No, you can't. No way to waste many like that. You have little baby at home we can't spent on your nonsense.
And I said to her: But I will also get some gems so I can do some stuff in game, it's a big fusion time so maybe I can get one legendary anyway.

She just turned and left...

That is my present for Christmas...

P.S. I invested anyway....:(

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4
User
19 December, 2019, 10:48 AM UTC

Any nerf to him should be compensated by increasing his multipliers and stats so that we can at least find some use of him outside of the Arena where you think he seems to be "problematic" 

btw Arena is just a small portion of the game, with mediocre rewards, there are other aspects of the game where champions are A LOT more dominant than Tormin is in Arena yet they're not even being looked at or discussed, why is arena such an issue again? Because it's the only PvP mode? 

Please, if you are going to nerf him in any way think about at least shifting his power rather than just removing it. More damage will make the community happy without making him necessarily overpowered in Arena. People have invested a ton to get him, this is the hardest fusion by far, after a bunch of mediocre ones, do not burn us again, Plarium! 


Thank you.

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