If those teams annoy you so much, you can always punish them by giving them 10 wins in a row. They'll go up in rating and wont be able to farm wins themselves LOL
Push them right into plat. That will teach them! LMAO
Polished look doesn't last too long on a turd, sooner or later somebody will catch the stink. And when that happens, they are brought right back down to Silver (talking about tag)....it's the natural order.
For one, we know Paraon places unkillable on himself, it's right there in his kit, you know what it's going to be about going in. And when it's solo Paragon, you already know it's a Stoneskin Paragon. When a Speed Team does it, it's just a trap. Yay, you got me, now I come back and bend you over. Congrats, you made a Stoneskin team that looks like a speed team. Comes with a coupon for one free W.
Come on, best they have available to them? If the best they got is a 150K arena team, what are the chances they are even farming Hydra, let alone having Stoneskin being the best gear available to them. My best gear is Perception, you know why? Because it's a lot easier to get. But hey, if somebody out there running a speed team and the best gear they could muster is somehow Stoneskin on all 4 champs, I owe you an apology.
I lost to legit speed teams who were 75K below mine, it's the nature of the beast, you just eat it. Their TM Booster was faster than mine, the rest is self explanatory, good game. You won't hear me complain about it. I've lost to an Elhain team not too long ago.....no tricks, just a very good Elhain, I guess. So no, I'm not saying don't do the best you can with what you got. I'm just saying Stoneskin set on a speed team is like an evening dress on a dude - even if he says it's the only clothes he could find, I don't know if I believe him.
Yeah, this is silly. You lost Tazer. You lost cause you're still blindly running a Maulie team into other speed nuke teams, who have chosen, instead of being faster, to ignore their opponents Speed stat. I myself use Stoneskin on a speed team. Then I run it against other speed teams and win just about One Hundo Percent.
I have plenty of gear and could run anything. I am a Gold 3/4 Tag Player and Plat player. I've got no issues winning. But I do like easy wins, and have lots of Stoneskin to go around, enough to build out the additional speed/nuke team I sometimes sub into my three regular teams. And frankly, if people want to run a Maulie or Hege team, and don't want to adjust, I'll continue to hold my W and they can continue to hold their L.
You change with the meta, or eventually you're just bad.
One of the things you will learn as you continue to progress is that the winning strategy is never to run speed versus speed, nor big slow versus big slow, etc... You match opposing strategies against your opponents, and then things like the speed stat doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if the Speed Lead is faster than yours cause you can tank several nukes no problem... or it doesn't matter the Res stat cause you've got Inc Acc and Bombs.... or etc...
To qoute Angwil here:
They should put off success until they have a team worthy of your admiration? They should not try to use what they have, until they have something up to your standards?
If you lost to a team, they are better than the team you brought. The Offensive player has EVERY advantage, including seeing EXACTLY the champs you are fighting, and stats that SHOULD tell you about their strategy. The fact you can fight them again, that's a gift you are given. Maybe Raid does it to encourage you to waste your gems on Ego checks. I don't even think you should be able to rematch a team you lost to unless you pull them on a future page. It should show up as an L, and lock the fight. Cause you lost versus a freaking A.I. copy of someone's team.
Just because their team isn't one you "respect"? That's silly. You lost. It's better than your team. You need to start respecting teams you lose to, or you will eventually lose always. No one is obligated to build teams according to your opinion of what a team should be. And implying they are bad for beating you? Wowzers.
You're better than this argument, I know it. <3
Warlord's cooldown effect can hit through stoneskin. 430 speed Arbiter isn't the meta anymore. Just buy shards until you have 3 copies of Warlord, bring your three 900 acc Warlords to every tag team fight, n00b! Get g00d!
Showing the set the defender uses is not a good option. I would prefer removing stoneskin from the game entirely. I have a team around stoneskin Cardinal myself, as long as this set exists, I will use it. But it's the biggest sh*t actually existing in this game.
Arena matches with 2 stoneskin teams, both trying to get their champs as slow as possible, so the stoneskin effect expires at the opponent team first, is as interesting as track cycling with it's standstill. Does anybody watch (or like 😽) track cycling? A sport/game where you try your best to be slower than your opponent is just boring.
Stoneskin is fairly easy to counter, and if playing arena in competitive brackets it should be assumed your opponent has it.
It seems to me people want to be free to use their speed nuke teams and win with them, but why?.
There are already a tonne of free kills in gold 5 classic (one man defences) so just kill those if you arent interested in the actual fight?.
Stoneskin adds an element of tactics and while you can go last as a tactic it is not the only one.
You can go first with a bomb champ, and put the opposers cleansers skills on cooldown for instance, you can also use a double attack stripper such as ukko and try to remove the stoneskin. I get stoneskin stripped from me all the time....
I just think if playing at all competitively in arena - assume the player has stoneskin
I am not in the top G4 tag like trips etc, im stuck in G3 but i always assume the opponent has some sort of nasty trick such as bolster or stoneskin and i plan accordingly.
Personally? i would make it harder for attackers and have completely blind matchmaking in classic and tag. I know that would be unpopular however.
For one, we know Paraon places unkillable on himself, it's right there in his kit, you know what it's going to be about going in. And when it's solo Paragon, you already know it's a Stoneskin Paragon. When a Speed Team does it, it's just a trap. Yay, you got me, now I come back and bend you over. Congrats, you made a Stoneskin team that looks like a speed team. Comes with a coupon for one free W.
Come on, best they have available to them? If the best they got is a 150K arena team, what are the chances they are even farming Hydra, let alone having Stoneskin being the best gear available to them. My best gear is Perception, you know why? Because it's a lot easier to get. But hey, if somebody out there running a speed team and the best gear they could muster is somehow Stoneskin on all 4 champs, I owe you an apology.
I lost to legit speed teams who were 75K below mine, it's the nature of the beast, you just eat it. Their TM Booster was faster than mine, the rest is self explanatory, good game. You won't hear me complain about it. I've lost to an Elhain team not too long ago.....no tricks, just a very good Elhain, I guess. So no, I'm not saying don't do the best you can with what you got. I'm just saying Stoneskin set on a speed team is like an evening dress on a dude - even if he says it's the only clothes he could find, I don't know if I believe him.
I run a speed team (arbiter, baron, yumeko and a damage valk) with baron in stoneskin to stop him getting killed by enemy A1 attacks (yumeko is supposed to put the enemy on cooldown but i was getting killed by enemy A1 attacks before switching to stoneskin).
I am not sure how putting baron into stoneskin is 'cheating' ? I have sacrificed some damage by not putting him in savage/cruel in order to give him a better chance of getting his skypiercer off.
To me thats a tactical decision, not cheating etc, i am afraid i dont understand why people would think it is.
It seems to me people want to be free to use their speed nuke teams and win with them, but why?
Because winning with a speed team makes you do the boring arena content in a few seconds, while winning with a slow go 2nd team leads to doing the boring arena content in several minutes per fight. It's bad enough that a game, that should entertain the users, bores them at all, but if so, it should be a short period of time.
It seems to me people want to be free to use their speed nuke teams and win with them, but why?
Because winning with a speed team makes you do the boring arena content in a few seconds, while winning with a slow go 2nd team leads to doing the boring arena content in several minutes per fight. It's bad enough that a game, that should entertain the users, bores them at all, but if so, it should be a short period of time.
Sounds like you need a bomb team. Or a go second team that still finishes fights quickly. Tank, nuke is a viable and very quick strat. As is tank, bomb.
Warlord's cooldown effect can hit through stoneskin. 430 speed Arbiter isn't the meta anymore. Just buy shards until you have 3 copies of Warlord, bring your three 900 acc Warlords to every tag team fight, n00b! Get g00d!
I don't have any copies of Warlord. Nor do I buy shards.
What's your argument for not being good now?
It seems to me people want to be free to use their speed nuke teams and win with them, but why?
Because winning with a speed team makes you do the boring arena content in a few seconds, while winning with a slow go 2nd team leads to doing the boring arena content in several minutes per fight. It's bad enough that a game, that should entertain the users, bores them at all, but if so, it should be a short period of time.
If you find arena boring, thats fair enough- kill the 1 champ defences? There are enough of them if you have a 1 man defence in yourself and sit mid G5 you wont have to fight a single proper team.
For players that have done ramantu and all the DT hard rooms etc though, arena is the only challenging content left?
@dthorne04 Just a quick ping to see how fast your go second classic and tag teams are? I know they're speedier than mine even.
My old style Mortu team is glacially slow still but the Gauis team is lightning fast.
If you find arena boring, thats fair enough- kill the 1 champ defences? There are enough of them if you have a 1 man defence in yourself and sit mid G5 you wont have to fight a single proper team.
For players that have done ramantu and all the DT hard rooms etc though, arena is the only challenging content left?
I quite enjoy Tag myself. The most fun content I do these days. All of Hard DT is on full auto, Hydra drives me nuts but that's mostly locked down. Sand Devil is just about having time for autos. Thank goodness Tag and Plat are here.
If everything in the game is a boring chore, why play? Why do that to yourself?
Stoneskin is fairly easy to counter, and if playing arena in competitive brackets it should be assumed your opponent has it.
It seems to me people want to be free to use their speed nuke teams and win with them, but why?.
There are already a tonne of free kills in gold 5 classic (one man defences) so just kill those if you arent interested in the actual fight?.
Stoneskin adds an element of tactics and while you can go last as a tactic it is not the only one.
You can go first with a bomb champ, and put the opposers cleansers skills on cooldown for instance, you can also use a double attack stripper such as ukko and try to remove the stoneskin. I get stoneskin stripped from me all the time....
I just think if playing at all competitively in arena - assume the player has stoneskin
I am not in the top G4 tag like trips etc, im stuck in G3 but i always assume the opponent has some sort of nasty trick such as bolster or stoneskin and i plan accordingly.
Personally? i would make it harder for attackers and have completely blind matchmaking in classic and tag. I know that would be unpopular however.
I'm not competitive, I'm just trying to learn.
I'm not in even in gold tag, I'm between Silver 3 and Silver 4.
And I deal with Stoneskin just fine, usually. It's when a stoneskin shows up where you don't expect, that is frustrating. And I get it, at the top level, just assume everybody has Stoneskin. But at the bottom? It's not that serious.
@dthorne04 Just a quick ping to see how fast your go second classic and tag teams are? I know they're speedier than mine even.
My old style Mortu team is glacially slow still but the Gauis team is lightning fast.
Classic Sheep Squad:
Mortu: 121 (want slower but can't get there)
Duch: 258
Ukko: 269
Mithrala: 271
Sometimes swap in for tag with the Sandlashed 6x Stone Skin at 145 speed.
If you find arena boring, thats fair enough- kill the 1 champ defences? There are enough of them if you have a 1 man defence in yourself and sit mid G5 you wont have to fight a single proper team.
For players that have done ramantu and all the DT hard rooms etc though, arena is the only challenging content left?
Stoneskin is the main reason why arena is boring. That includes single champ stoneskin Mortu-Macaab defense teams. I never lost to one of these, and stoneskin Gaius tricked me exactly once. But every champ that is capable of doing some damage could be such a stoneskin trap. Even fighting one champ defense is slow and boring now.
Very often there are one champ stoneskin defense teams that doesn't even make any sense. Stoneskin Duchess with high res vs. bombs. No healing option, that champ will neither win nor force a stalemate. If the goal of the defender is actually winning the fight, that doesn't make any sense. On the other hand, if the goal of the defender is not getting arena points, but trolling the attacker, it makes perfect sense, of course.
Classic Sheep Squad:
Mortu: 121 (want slower but can't get there)
Duch: 258
Ukko: 269
Mithrala: 271
Sometimes swap in for tag with the Sandlashed 6x Stone Skin at 145 speed.
I meant how long the fights take.
I know you are pushing Plat Trophies right now, so your teams have to be fast enough to compete, even against the top couple hundred people in the game.
It's the literal OPPOSITE of what I'm reading in this thread about how long fights take.
I quite enjoy Tag myself. The most fun content I do these days. All of Hard DT is on full auto, Hydra drives me nuts but that's mostly locked down. Sand Devil is just about having time for autos. Thank goodness Tag and Plat are here.
If everything in the game is a boring chore, why play? Why do that to yourself?
I am not sure if you intended to direct this at me, i didnt say i find arena a chore :) - i was saying people should just do the free kills if they hate arena
Personally, i have a love hate relationship with tag. I am finding it hard to get into G4 which is a bit frustrating.
And sometimes i dont have time for the long fights each day.
But like everyone who has played for a long time i have every other piece of content on full auto so tag and maybe one day classic plat is the only content left for me.
People are free to disagree, but for me stoneskin is a good thing because adds a layer of difficulty/uncertainty for the attacker, i really would prefer completely blind matchmaking.
Anyway i will butt out, but it is nice to see everyone stay friendly while disagreeing :)
I run a speed team (arbiter, baron, yumeko and a damage valk) with baron in stoneskin to stop him getting killed by enemy A1 attacks (yumeko is supposed to put the enemy on cooldown but i was getting killed by enemy A1 attacks before switching to stoneskin).
I am not sure how putting baron into stoneskin is 'cheating' ? I have sacrificed some damage by not putting him in savage/cruel in order to give him a better chance of getting his skypiercer off.
To me thats a tactical decision, not cheating etc, i am afraid i dont understand why people would think it is.
I don't think you understand. Your team is a speed team, it functions like a speed team. You protect Baron from not getting killed, that is a tactical decision. I don't have a problem with that.
It's when people put up a bait "speed team" that is not at all a speed team....in places where the competition is not that serious, where it's not a "win at all costs" fight to the death.
I meant how long the fights take.
I know you are pushing Plat Trophies right now, so your teams have to be fast enough to compete, even against the top couple hundred people in the game.
It's the literal OPPOSITE of what I'm reading in this thread about how long fights take.
Often the "slower" fights take 1:30-2. On offense with that Sheep Team I'll bring in someone like Rotos, Hephraak, a faster nuker to keep those times down.
One thing I don't think the complainers have a grasp on is just how big the difference is between the quality of Stone Skin you will face anywhere in Gold Tag, and say Classic Arena during the week until the push. Those builds are often giving up stats somewhere, aren't tuned properly, or some combination of both.
So, if you lack answers it is one thing. If you are unwilling to build answers you have and competent teams around them then I really have no sympathy.
Often the "slower" fights take 1:30-2. On offense with that Sheep Team I'll bring in someone like Rotos, Hephraak, a faster nuker to keep those times down.
One thing I don't think the complainers have a grasp on is just how big the difference is between the quality of Stone Skin you will face anywhere in Gold Tag, and say Classic Arena during the week until the push. Those builds are often giving up stats somewhere, aren't tuned properly, or some combination of both.
So, if you lack answers it is one thing. If you are unwilling to build answers you have and competent teams around them then I really have no sympathy.
Let's say 1:30 per fight. That's 4:30 per tag team match. That's 90 minutes for the 20 free daily tag team fights.
On top of daily CB, daily dungeon runs, daily DT matches, daily faction wars.
Stoneskin is the main reason why arena is boring. That includes single champ stoneskin Mortu-Macaab defense teams. I never lost to one of these, and stoneskin Gaius tricked me exactly once. But every champ that is capable of doing some damage could be such a stoneskin trap. Even fighting one champ defense is slow and boring now.
Very often there are one champ stoneskin defense teams that doesn't even make any sense. Stoneskin Duchess with high res vs. bombs. No healing option, that champ will neither win nor force a stalemate. If the goal of the defender is actually winning the fight, that doesn't make any sense. On the other hand, if the goal of the defender is not getting arena points, but trolling the attacker, it makes perfect sense, of course.
So, judging by this and your super mature Warlord post up there I get the sense you think you should be able to click through Arena mindlessly, so I ask you:
Why is the onus on the meta to change to your wishes because you seem to only enjoy it when it's extremely fast, mindless content?
In reality the onus is on you to deal with possibly stalemate forcing comps, annoying teams, so on and so forth. I run a Stone Heph with food during the week because if people farming G5 want easy medals, then they can pay attention. The attacker has all the advantages and can make all the adjustments.
Some of this thread reads like UDK under a different coat of paint.
Edit: Now we're conflating points and topics here. Whatever timesink there is in the game right now has zero correlation with approach towards Arena, whether it be time thinking about, building for it or playing.
Furthermore, if you're at a point where you're pushing any serious level of PvP your FW 20/21 farming should be a nonissue, to say the least.
