OMG

Why can't we have both?

There is sooooooo much other crap that they could have removed and you would have had alot less complaining.

Also to the defenders, why can not you understand it is not about the ability to summon a champ with the shard but the ability to use the shard in EVENTS.

Yes i know all of the defenders will say just do NM and UNM and all is well, I am sorry but it is not that EASY to do NM/UNM and for newer accounts that shard and chicken were very meaningful for EVENTS.

Option a) you are right just because? I did not see anyone stating facts, only opinioos. So why is youur opinion th right one?

b) the game functioned fine for how long? with the old rewards? Why was it ssuddendly so pressing to change them? The champion pool is ever expanding, not ever shrinking, so it actualy gets harder to pull a certain one with a shard.

c) well I can only speak for myself here. Of course I do not know, what I am talking about, since I do not 2key UNM and am not 270 days in. But I am able to extrapolate. When getting 1 shard in a month out of double hard max chests, why should the situation be drastically different in UNM max chest? |Sure, the chance is about double, that only means instead of 1 shard I can expect 2 shards..with a 1 in 3 chance of one of these shards being a sacred....Unless of course you can point me to the link stating the NM/UNM shard drop rates drastically upped from previous difficulties.

You also remove player agency. You can pull the gifte sacred shard at cvc, 2x, 10, champion rush, champion training, summon rush or just any time you feel like. You can't do that with the fragments.

Quite frankly, when looking at the login rewards pre270 days, I rather take an ancient shard instead of tainix, Dark athel, Lordly legionaire, Dark Elhaine, Yaga.

Based  on  your  first  paragraph  I  know  that  I  could  probably  safely  ignore  the  rest  since  it's  clear  you  just  want  to  argue,  but  I  won't. 

He  stated  an  opinion,  and  I  stated  an  opinion.  Neither  of  these  opinions  should  be  taken  as  fact  or  the  only  correct  thought  process.  

As  for  your  second  question,  it's  unfortunately not  a  very  strong  argument  as  the  271+  daily  log  in  rewards  are  relatively  new themselves  and  Plarium  had  always  stated  that   newer  pieces  of  the  game  are  subject  to  change.  

For  your  argument  about  the  shards  Vs.  guaranteed  legendary,  pulling  during  events  etc.   harleQuinn  was  kind  enough  to  do  the  math  for  everyone  earlier  in  this  thread,  you  can  find  it  here.  

https://plarium.com/forum/en/raid-shadow-legends/674_game-discussion/594182_i-disagree-with-the-content-creators-again/7/

I'm  also  not  making  the  argument  that  these  changes  are  all  good,  personally  I  miss  the  5*  chicken  the  most.  

And  this  next  statement  is  directed  at  other  people,  not  you,  everyone  seems  to  forget  that  Cleo  is  only  the  first  legendary,  there  will  indeed  be  more.  Some  of  them  will  he  garbage  I'm  sure,  but  some  of  them  will  be  good/great.  Also,  everyone  needs  to  keep  in  mind  that  garbage  legendaries  are  constantly  being  updated  to  make  them  more  viable.  

I don't want to argue just for arguments sake. It was you who stated"I am right and everyone not agreeing is wrong just because" as option.

Yes the math was done on shard vs guaranteed. Wether or not the math is correct, approximately correct or way off base is also beside the point. You cmpletely ignored the point I made. My point was, that the shard allows you flexibility and player agency because it allows you to particpate/push in certain events. You can't do that with fragments.

Yes a guaranteed legionary might be better than 4 shards if you value only legendaries. The shard can also pull you an epic you might need. Yes it could also pull trash epic. 

It is valid to evaluate currentdecisions on past patterns. And when you look at current login reewar champs let'ss recapitulate:

9 login reward champions: 2 extremely narrow usefulness, 2 amazing ones, 1 good one, 4 absolute trash tier.  I don't expect the pattern to change for future login champions. I am happy to concede should you have information to the contrary, but as it stands now people can expect in the 36 months after 270 days more than half the login champions doing practically nothing for their account. Which is the ultimate feelsbad on top of the lacking player agency.

I would agree, that a guarantee legionary woud be superior to a shard if you coud actually choose one out of a pool. But as it stands now it's not.

In this discussion most people seem to accept the invalid claim that Cleopterix is a trash legendary. HellHades gives her an overall rating of 4* (from 5), and reading her kit, I agree. 

I allready wrote, that I will try her out in 20+ dungeons, especially force affinity stages, when I get her. Block active skills is a great (and looking at this discussion probably underrated) debuff. It will turn waves into harmless fellows for 2 turns. It's not only the quality of the debuff, stun or freeze are better, but the duration of 2 turns. That is very rare for an AoE crowd control debuff. Ma'Shalled can bring out true fear for 2 turns, Umbral Enchantress can provoke for 2 turns. Maybe there are a few others that can do something similar, but Cleopterix A2 is, among the mentioned, probably one of the best crowd control moves in the game. The duration of 2 turns even allows to put in on nasty Skullcruhers in some really hard DT waves, who can't be controlled by 1-turn-debuffs due to their passive.

Or do all people calling Cleopterix a trash legendarie have so great accounts, that they don't need any crowd control, because their Elenaril + Taurus or their Royal Guards kill every wave content in a few seconds anyway? 

Uugo does a 2 turn block buffs and decrease defense on a 3 turn CD with 100% chance when booked. He is also epic so easier to book.

Indeed, how could I forget Uugo, as I have and use her on my account. Uugo is strong. 💪

In some fights the result is fantastic. Counterattack enemies like Valk and Skullcrusher, or the beloved Paragons, making your overnight 30 runs autobattle stop at wave 1 from run 1, Uugo beats them all. 

But I think block active skills still has more value in overall usefullness than block buffs. It's just allways good, not only situational like block buffs. Block active skills disables Scyl from reviving, Spirit Host from debuff removing, Umbral from provoking your team, ...

Pffft. My Royal Guard doesn't kill all the waves, the slacker. He really needs to step it up. lol

Like you, I actually like Cleo a lot and think she'll put me over the top in FW21 for Skinwalkers. And help me clear some of those terrible DT levels a lot easier. With an UNM CB team finally finally built after months of grinding to get it done, it's time to start actually trying in DT. Also, I very much utilize Block Active Skills in Arena with Hegemon and she might be fun to try out there too.

And I actually plan on letting mine sit until I need those points for a fusion or fragment event, and then I'll be summoning her for those sweet sweet points. I let my Rhazin and Hellmut sit the same way. :D

Uugo is soooo very good. Her and Dhukk really hard carried me through so much content, from CB to DT to dungeons. Two of my very favorite champs for all around utility and awesomeness.

You're  doing  it  again,  you're  trying  to  argue  for  no  reason.  I  never  said  my  opinion  was  correct,  I  was  taking  what  they  said  and  reversing  it.  This  conversation  has  no  reason  to  continue  until  you  learn  to  have  an  accurate  and  constructive discussion.  

Harbby if you dont like argue dont writte (put your opinion).

But if you are like me, plz put how many people reach 9 month (%), so they understand, how many complete events (%).

Only a few care about be in the top, I understand plarium they want  more player pass  1 year.

Free leg is their shoot.

ANd is ironic They cry and dont see chicken (5star) can buy in clan shop they can have more than 1 / month (went they clan reach the lvl), and the shard only a few affect.

But they think if i dont like everyone should hate that.

My lucks is bad like hell so free leg is good for me.

I think people over value legos just because they are legos.

I've been "lucky" in the last month and added a lot of new yellow champs to my vault, that was already holding plenty. I feel like you have to be way more picky with what Lego you are going to level up because booking(unless you whale) is a pita. Don't get me wrong I have legos fully booked but there is almost a epic or even rare that will fill the same role, sometimes better, and for the average player will make more of a difference as they will have them fully unlocked.

Personally I would rather have some chickens to help level the pile of ever expanding champs in my vault, and the shards.

That is purely my own opinion. 

Also want to add, how many players even out of everyone posting here is @270+ days?

I think I remember reading like 90% don't even last 180?

Personally I just got into the 270 month a week or two after this change.

180 days

I think that those who like this change either have a large abundance of maxed champions already, spend money (which I am not indicating as a bad thing to do), or have played for a very long time. I am 1 year in as FTP and just now got to where I can 4 key UNM. I did (4 key) NM for about 3-4 months and only got 3 sacred shards in all that time. However UNM has given me 6 in about a month and a half which is a huge boost.

I think that legends are being overvalued on this post. Some legends can be outstanding in everything or outclass epics in one specific area, but there are epics that aren't usable at all. Then there is the fact there are some Legends that are really good but only if booked, which is a whole other thing. So far the people who advocate for the change  seem to ONLY talk about the sacred shard, and equate that sacred shard as being a low chance of giving a legend and completely disregards the epics you get.

However the loss of this shard ISN'T just a chance at a legendary, It is also a garunteed epic champion and a possible fantastic epic champion that is easier to book than a legend. I know, your next argument is "but that's still RNG" and you are correct, however you are also neglecting that even if all 4 sacreds are dupe or trash epic champs you are still gaining something. A dupe can be used as a book, which is pretty hard to come by, and a trash champ can be used as a resource to work towards another 6* champ. To make one 4* food out of only rare's....I think that equals somewhere around 350 energy. so if all 4 of your sacreds were trash champs that's a loss of 1400 energy just to get one legend.

Personally, I don't think the loss of 4 Sacreds is a massive loss especially if Cleopterix is as good as she seems. However we aren't just losing a sacred shard, we also lose a 5* chicken every month. This is the biggest loss of the change IMO because to make one 5* fuse food out of only rares is roughly 1500 energy, thats a 6000 energy loss.

So in summary we are trading four 5* chicken's AND four sacred shard for 1 legend. provided that all the sacred shards are trash epics, that is equivalent to roughly 7400 energy. Personally, I would prefer to have all that fuse food over even a somewhat decent legend.

As a bit of reference to how important that energy is to FTP players. In one year I only have 22 level 60 champs, however 4 of them have no masteries (I'm out of energy at the moment). To max masteries it costs roughly 2000 energy if you farm stage 15, sure you could use gems to get the masteries but that costs 800 gems. As FTP, those gems (at least after you get 4 champs at max masteries) are best used to buy ancient shards, otherwise you will only be doing around 20 shard pulls every x2 Ancient shard weekend which MIGHT get you a minimum of 1 epic or 3-4 if your really lucky. These numbers will obviously vary but so far this is my experience. 

"So in summary we are trading four 5* chicken's AND four sacred shard for 1 legend. provided that all the sacred shards are trash epics, that is equivalent to roughly 7400 energy. Personally, I would prefer to have all that fuse food over even a somewhat decent legend."

Very fair points. Well stated.

My account is over 270. I actually collected my first fragments for Cleo yesterday. :D

Thank you for such a well thought and and clear response. I can't deny it, I am a whale and I do have a massive amount of champions so I agree with you, my perspective is a lot different than f2p or newer whale accounts, and I do understand where the anger is coming from. 

Even for me, the loss of the 5* chicken definitely hurts. 

Why not getting surrogate fragments via daily login rewards? So you would be able to choose a lego by yourself. A lego that would really help you and was definately no dupe. My first dupe was Rhazin, short after fusioning him I draw him from a sacred shard. ^^ 

That's really bad luck. I'm at day 300 in the game (I started my first 270+ cycle pre Cleo and just finished it today) and still have no Rhazin, because 1 of the rares is still hiding. I guess I will pull a Rhazin from a shard before I finish the fusion.

Your idea of free choice of a lego will never be implemented. Maybe they will let us choose from a certain, rather small pool in the future, but they will never let the players choose any lego. Arena full of Hegemeons, everybody has unkillable teams with Roshcards... No way! Grinding and RNG are essential parts of the game, if everybody has teams of top tier champs, the game would be basically dead. That would be hyper-inflation. A billion is not worth anything if you have a wheelbarrow full of billion-notes. What is the further goal for a player that has every top champ and beaten every content in the game?