if grinding is not fun for you, then this game is not for you.

I love grinding. Grinding is fun for me.

WRONG ,,, Games like this a PAY TO WIN !!! 

BUY Books,, BUY the 6 star Armors that go on sale

BUY FRAGS for the X2 and X10 

BUY BUY BUY ....

F2P are slags along for the Ride and Who cares about Slags that do NOT PAY TO PLAY !!

I've been playing video games since NES, and I've played them all, console, PC, mobile, I think I can safely say, I've experienced all the platform.

Grinding can be fun, if there's a small way point to look forward to.

In the case of raid, this was true from 2 years ago up to 9 month-ish ago.

Back then the progression mission is that small steps to look forward to while grinding. Not so much today, once tou hit that Bronze 3 mission today, the small steps suddenly becomes a ravine that you need to jump over while you've just learned how to crawl.

It was fun for those who have played for over 1 year, because the small steps is still there, but for new players, the grind becomes unbearable because their next reward becomes so far away it's unattainable.

I think the best way to illustrate for veteran Raid players is for you to try other game, like this one

Dead Ahead: Zombie Warfare.

It's a fun game with solid gameplay, BUT like Raid TODAY, there's a point where progress comes to a screeching halt, where the grind becomes unbearable because there's nothing to look forward to. What is there is daily dose of doing the same thing over and over without any sign of progress, your heroes upgrade becomes meaningless because it can't overcome that next step. In Zombie Warfare case it's around level 6, for Raid today is around Bronze 3 or Silver 1 mission.

Grind can be fun... But without anything to look forward to, it becomes time to ditch a mobile game

Grind can be fun... But without anything to look forward to, it becomes time to ditch a mobile game 

I think that is the point. I love leveling up new champs and seeing what they can or can not do, but when doing so feels like i am taking 10 steps backwards it really takes the fun out of it.

How is grinding different from old and new players? I still grind in Dragon, and new players too. 

Progression can be in different forms. The one artifact you get in dragon that rolls 3-4x in speed is called Progression. 

I don't know what other players look forward to, for me it is the artifact. And when I grind, It always excites me when I get a speed gear with speed substat. It feels a lot better when it rolls in speed.  Better than getting a legendary.

The parameter of Player power that factors into matchmaking addresses exactly the potential issue of a new player facing a much more experienced player.

Of course, this might be not the optimal solution, and it might have some drawbacks, but generally, it works

Hey, JoinME !

Thank you for the suggestion! I would say that modifying the missions and rearranging their sequence in such a way that they facilitate teaching new players how to become better in the Arena - is definitely a good idea. I will talk to game designers about your proposed suggestion.

However, I agree with a comment above - that providing new players with Gorgorab (or some other Champion of such sort) at such an early stage, as Bronze Arena Tiers, seems to be a too large reward

Respectfully, How does it work?

Lets just consider one example

1) A player in silver 2, is struggling -so he goes away, farms dragon lots, maybe buys some shards and in the process raises ten levels and increases player power by 400k.

He logs back into arena and...hey presto the algorithm has given him harder matches for the same tier....because of the matchmaking algorithm.

Why would anyone buy shards right now if plarium are going to punish you for grinding, raising levels and raising account power by making the exact same content harder as a result?. 

Agree whole heartly, I know i have stopped buying shards as it screws me in the Arena.

This  game  is  all  about  grinding  and  work.  Its  completely  possible  to  clear  every  area  of  the  game  as  a  f2p  player.  You  need  to  work  harderbon  something,  thinking  outside  the  box  if  something  goes  wrong.  You  dont  have  to  fix  it  with  your  credit  card.  You  can  fix  it  with  you  determination  and  mind  (if  you  can  handle  it).

If you're looking for a rational explanation, here's the only one I got for you. They want to hide the problems with the arena from new players until they've already invested enough time and/or money that they may think twice about just quitting and finding something better to do. The matchmaking starts to hurt after you've collected several champions after all, and to do that you need shards which you get either by spending money or playing long enough. 

Joinme is basically right, though I think he minimizes how much MORE grinding is needed to progress in arena... lol

12 months ago: 1,000 dragon runs

6 months ago: 5,000 dragon runs

Today: $1,000 in speed artifact purchases :)

I've said it before, the game has changed.  Arbiter is not f2p/casual player friendly... it is not "fair", but it is profitable :)  It can still be done but f2p, but by design it is 100x more difficult.  You can't make something easier for f2p without depressing sales.

What's the difference?

https://plarium.com/forum/en/raid-shadow-legends/674_game-discussion/200882_my-observation-after-breaking-the-silver-1-progress-mission/

That's the difference, that thread was made almost1 year ago, that team breached silver 1 almost 1 year ago.

You tell me that team can get to silver 1 today? That team with some improvement got me to Gold 4 a few months later. Again, tell me how can that kind of team can get to gold 4 today?

THAT is the difference between grinding back then, and grinding today

I meant grinding in dungeons. That is why I said, new and old player grinds the same dungeon. 

Trips is right. To progress in arena can be harder right now but that is normal in games in this genre. 

You can not really compare arena from 2019 and arena today. Those time have no siphi no rotos, and no duchess. Thus you see "easy" teams. Can you blame Plarium for creating new  stronger champions? 

And It is very very easy to progress in dungeons now. Before Scyl came out, I have to 6 star Reliquary Tender and that is my very best reviver. 

I am not sure what you want to shown in your link. From what I see (after a quick glance) you show an account with fully ascended champions and you are just in silver 1. Which in some players IS the problem. Players expect there are no fully max ascended level 60 in bronze and silver. 

And to add, players today expect they should just cruise to gold 4 in just playing less than 6 months lol. I myself reach gold 4 probably after 8 months (in 2019) and got Arbiter around 10 or 11 months of playing. I remember I am trying hard to finish Tormin fusion thinking he could help me in spider dungeon 18 or 19 lol, I can't remember.

I meant to add, everything else (PvE, rewards, energy, plethora of content) about the game is far more f2p friendly.  For example, Spider20 is basically a free pass at 6 months with Scyl (free, no books needed), Drex (free after 4 months, no books needed), Armiger (free free free).  I didn't think I would ever beat spider lol.

The difference is, what you get for the same amount of grinding. The amount of times I grind in Dragon dungeon to get that team to Gold 4 is significantly less than any new player today need to gind dragon dungeon to get thwir team to gold 4.

As I said earlier, grinding can be fun if there's small steps that you can achieve while grinding, once that small steps becomes a giant chasm, grinding cease to be fun.

For a lot of NEW players today, that chasm is Bronze 3 mission, and no for good designed Mobile Game, the difficulty curve hardly changed for players that joined early or late. I have been saying since 1 year ago, arena's point system is highly flawed and would make arena harder as time goes by and it did, arena today is harder than 1 year ago. And it will continue to do so until it will just turn off any new players completely from the game, and when it does it will push even more people down to lower arena rank.

So arena needs a total rework, any workaround with matchmaking tweaks or progress mission tweaks will just be a temporary fix that will work at max 2 weeks before it comes back to square one

Here's the problem Trips, considering the great hall and arena ranj bonus, can you still beat those dungeons with HALF the bonus those things give?

At minimum, it will take SIGNIFICANTLY longer to beat the dungeon. And with how many things needed to be done in this game, having to do 3 minutes per run in a dungeon can be a huge turn off to the game.

The reason I have stopped playing regularly is because this game took too much of my time, between events and fusion and maxing my champions, this game have cease to become a time sink and have turned into a full time job.

So while there's many area that can be done with less strain than arena, without getting the bonus from arena, that other part becomes even more grindy and less fun.

Yes, I would say the amount of free rewards (energy, shards, books, better champs) actually makes it easier to beat all dungeon 20s today without GH & Arena bonus stats.  I would actually say far easier.  And no I am not going to start a 3rd account to prove it.  My alt was recently retired to CB only, lol, and now my clan may not need the help to kill unm/nm so could go into full blown retirement.  

I'm new to the game and find the arena a bit out of wack and frustrating. Challenge yes, but all out slaughter in one round is another when trying to crawl out of tier one bronze. I did however find that refreshing the challengers helpful from all out getting slaughtered a million times over and over. I don't see it a challenge but more of a random kill the player mod LOL.