this part i add now so i can edit later to add snapshots of previous reasons some people said in a previous pos which was deleted

this message will be edited,just saving a first reply for it 

the new feature that plarium added this week

league gifts,where one player purchases a certain pack it also give some free gifts to not only buyer,but also the whole league too

this was one of the best features i have ever seen in a long time

this was praiseworthy so i thank u from all 160 members of our league !

u do a good thing or two in a while too plarium  this was a joke . loved all the new additions so far

a great addition to the game,please repeat this every event on schedule

The post where it was explained how ludicrously unbalanced this update is have been deleted.

I am not surprised you are championing the update. You are in a mega coining league and support all the features that create greater and greater imbalance in the game.

You are getting an absurd amount of free stuff, what other reaction could one expect than. loving all the free stuff.

I'll make my own post with the facts and analysis which clearly show this is a no-brainer disaster, rather than fill up your thread with it.

DJ Moody said:

The post where it was explained how ludicrously unbalanced this update is have been deleted.

I am not surprised you are championing the update. You are in a mega coining league and support all the features that create greater and greater imbalance in the game.

You are getting an absurd amount of free stuff, what other reaction could one expect than. loving all the free stuff.

But if in 5 weeks of this event your league is going to get an amount of free troops that is equal to the size of all defence in a major league earned over 7 years, do you really think the game is going to have a future?

I'll make my own post with the facts and analysis which clearly show this is a no-brainer disaster, rather than fill up your thread with it.

the game will be great with this feature

some people ruined league chest will not stand for this one

create as many posts as u want.better actually i will just gather as many positive feedbacks here as i can so plarium also sees majority like this one.by majority i mean players.not hundreds of alt accounts logged in from same IP

its not a weekly thing so will be a pleasant addition to the game.just cause ur league dsnt get it.dsnt mean others shouldnt either !!!

im not going to go into ur regular use of words like its a no brainer..

I suppose the silver lining in all this is Plarium's price model. If players buy a couple of these packages they'll soon be pushed into the top tier and I can't see whole leagues spending $50 bucks on a pack, week in week out. 

But for a quick cash grab, sure, enough people will fall for it. 

Oracle said:a few paragrahs

moderators ,first message is to u guys,i ask that please u remove the link as its not of the subject and derailing the topic(if its withing the rules and possibe)

and Oracle,Oh WoW. 

in the original post made by biohazard,i have a snapshot of u saying ur okay with this if its put into an event

ah and dnt worry if the game is to end,this,will not be the cause ! 

also i have reasons to support everything i said about this feature being good which i will state once i see opp is done with their reasons !

this feature is a nice addition to the game !

so many people asid we will quit the game if beacon massacre didnt stop and yet they stayed for 2 more years and well now people started saying game will end and etc ! this feature will game the end,that thing will end the game ! when flash stops, game wont exist ! and yet everyone is still here.oracle i honestly dnt mean anything by this towards u !

also everyone says i dnt spend,and looks down on people who does !!! okay if a platform owner dsnt get any profit why would they hold onto a game ? these coiners u look down on are paying for all the costs !  the argue would be yes u dnt disagree too but how much coining !!!! i have reasons for that too

most people play the game for what its for,have fun ! and as long as everyone has friends here,they will have fun ! this game wont end ! a game,any game,not this ,a game stops only when there is no fun ! as long as people dnt kill fun of it, game will stand

i will stand with this game ! cause well,u know,its fun ! i will stand against anyone who tries to take the fun out of this great game !

i love this game and this is a great feature for so many reason im willing to argue with !

Hello Lords and Ladies , please don't forget this is a game , and a game should bring fun passing the time , there are things in the game which we like and somtehing which we don't like ... but when we accepted the terms for playing this game ,we accepted too that the devs can change the game how they think is better ! 

Me personally i love this game , and i spend a lot of time on it , and there are a lot of things which i like !

I wasn't going to post in this thread again but I can only see so much before I feel compelled to post.

It's funny to see the preaching about "fun", as if the supporters of extreme game imbalance are the defenders of the "fun". Closing down any and all debate you run the serious risk of being the fun killers.

Why do people complain about extreme game balance so often. Because it's NO FUN to play a game that you have no chance to compete in. That is a pretty valid reason to make a post right?

Clearly when the business model is micro transactions, the micro transactions have to provide an advantage or people won't spend. So we have to accept that all micro transactions games are going to be unfair to some extent. The question is to what extent, how much advantage can a game sustain before it's broken as a meaningful game and experience.

Say we rank player skill, knowledge and experience from 1 to 10.

Two evenly matched players, the one who spends will win. That is just the way it is.

But should the level of advantage allow a skill 4 player to overcome a skill 6 player (two reasonable closely matched average players)?

How about skill 3 (a weak player) verus a skill 7 (probably a pretty reasonable player)?

What about skill 1 being able to streamroller skill 10? No matter how good you are, you can't resist or compete.

Were do you rank Stormfall on that scale?

Do you recognise there is a point the advantage money buys can break a game, leaving it a largely pointless exercise for neatly everyone qho tries it?

Do you not recognise that this game already provides a significant advantage to coining?

Is it not therefore a possibility that the game might be at risk of approaching the tipping point?

So do we want to have a sensible debate, or just splurge out propaganda to support all imbalance and delete or contrary views, because we are totally biased and are in a league where we can benefit from it and to hell with other people's fun and to dark with the health of the game as a whole?

Because everyone's fun really is at stake on this issue.

DJ Moody said:

I wasn't going to post in this thread again but I can only see so much before I feel compelled to post.

It's funny to see the preaching about "fun", as if the supporters of extreme game imbalance are the defenders of the "fun". Closing down any and all debate you run the serious risk of being the fun killers.

Why do people complain about extreme game balance so often. Because it's NO FUN to play a game that you have no chance to compete in. That is a pretty valid reason to make a post right?

Clearly when the business model is micro transactions, the micro transactions have to provide an advantage or people won't spend. So we have to accept that all micro transactions games are going to be unfair to some extent. The question is to what extent, how much advantage can a game sustain before it's broken as a meaningful game and experience.

Say we rank player skill, knowledge and experience from 1 to 10.

Two evenly matched players, the one who spends will win. That is just the way it is.

But should the level of advantage allow a skill 4 player to overcome a skill 6 player (two reasonable closely matched average players)?

How about skill 3 (a weak player) verus a skill 7 (probably a pretty reasonable player)?

What about skill 1 being able to streamroller skill 10? No matter how good you are, you can't resist or compete.

Were do you rank Stormfall on that scale?

Do you recognise there is a point the advantage money buys can break a game, leaving it a largely pointless exercise for neatly everyone qho tries it?

Do you not recognise that this game already provides a significant advantage to coining?

Is it not therefore a possibility that the game might be at risk of approaching the tipping point?

So do we want to have a sensible debate, or just splurge out propaganda to support all imbalance and delete or contrary views, because we are totally biased and are in a league where we can benefit from it and to hell with other people's fun and to hell with the health of the game as a whole?

Because everyone's fun really is at stake on this issue.

DJ MOODY ,i will answer all the questions about this feature and the effects it will have on game balance.and i will convince everyone.this is a good thing added to the game when i see all the questions later !!!

talking about skills ! DJ moody , lets say 0 is a zero player .and lets say moderators and you(im not tryin to be mean,im not saying that u know everything about game cause,well,might not be posiible for anyone with new features soming out everyday,just setting ur knowledge a top score for the sake of arguement) are 10 ! aside from what u call me propoganda usage,what skill am i ? as a man answer me this !!! from just my tutorials and my posts wha is my skill lvl in ur point of view ? honest ! 

-do u not recognise ?

-read this,u might learn something

-if u researched it it was easy to understand(with rest of ur statement implying others dnt)

-its a no-brainer

-it was easy to understand

-cant believe u failed to grasp this/that

-here is a link to such and such and how things work,go have a look

these right here,thats how u talk ! just for a moment, just a second think about the possibility of u not taking all the factors into ur equations and yet looking down on people for what u so righteously feel and think is right,therefore others are wrong ! then will u say, did i say others are wrong ? 

stop calling people a hater ,a troll just for disagreeing with u so they arnt afraid to post aside,even say anything where u are ! 

i have my reason ! in front of everything u posted on last one u posted or the one before that which biohazard posted which i will state later

It's funny to see the preaching about "fun", as if the supporters of extreme game imbalance are the defenders of the "fun". Closing down any and all debate you run the serious risk of being the fun killers.

DJ Moody said:

Say we rank player skill, knowledge and experience from 1 to 10.

Two evenly matched players, the one who spends will win. That is just the way it is.

But should the level of advantage allow a skill 4 player to overcome a skill 6 player (two reasonable closely matched average players)?

How about skill 3 (a weak player) verus a skill 7 (probably a pretty reasonable player)?

What about skill 1 being able to streamroller skill 10? No matter how good you are, you can't resist or compete.

Were do you rank Stormfall on that scale?

Do you recognise there is a point the advantage money buys can break a game, leaving it a largely pointless exercise for neatly everyone qho tries it?

Do you not recognise that this game already provides a significant advantage to coining?

I can assure you i'm not a coiner , and i was in the weekly top rank for many many times , i won a lot rewards in various tournaments , and there are coiners which didn't earned my achievements yet in the game !  

Not always spending money offer you fun and doesn't give you the victory !

DJ Moody said:

Do you not recognise that this game already provides a significant advantage to coining?

Is it not therefore a possibility that the game might be at risk of approaching the tipping point?

So do we want to have a sensible debate, or just splurge out propaganda to support all imbalance and delete or contrary views, because we are totally biased and are in a league where we can benefit from it and to hell with other people's fun and to dark with the health of the game as a whole?

Because everyone's fun really is at stake on this issue.

I see this game not in single version , but a game for a group , so the strong point is the league where you play , the actions which you can do together with the other members , 

and with a good organization you can defeat also the most big coiner , and that was done already many times ! 

So the game is not just for the coiner(s)  my Lord !
I wish you a good day and good battles !

Mic999 said:

I see this game not in single version , but a game for a group , so the strong point is the league where you play , the actions which you can do together with the other members , 

and with a good organization you can defeat also the most big coiner , and that was done already many times ! 

So the game is not just for the coiner(s)  my Lord !
I wish you a good day and good battles !

Thanks for actually replying with your view and backing it up with a rationale. That is a sensible debate and I very much appreciate it..Here is my reaction to your points.

Bringing up leagues is a good example of somewhere where I think the game balance has been seriously eroded, in the last year or so.

Brawl rewards at the 20m level are 5 times what you can build in a week. The leagues that score that level are supported by serious spending. Whether it be the people willing to do loss making BGs and buy back losses, or just outright speed boosting of troops, arts buildings etc for immediate points. In my server the only leagues scoring 20m are obvious ones supported by big spending.

Same leagues also reached floor 100 in the tower first. Free holy bond for each members. At the time that was only achievable by spending in the thousands of dollars level (good now that it is effectively free to play)

The spending in the league yields free league chests for all members and now with this update will be a HUGE number of free troops and sapphires. The level of free troops could be as much as 34 times what you can build in a week (the calculation for that figure is in one of the hidden posts btw if you want to understand where I get it from).

As a result a significant majority of growing players end up in one of the coining leagues. They just make the rationale choice that to be successful in the game they need to be part of the advantage because, when it's going to be x5 faster growth in a coining league (with this update significantly more), there is no hope to competing from outside.

And that is sad, because the league meta game was one of the last areas where a skillful player could work a significant advantage over money.

For at least for the first 3 years or so the league rankings were largely determined by the leagues with the most skill, knowledge and experience. Money was a factor and having a big spender would be an advantage but ability to perform in diplo, spying, organise your league, motivate your players, communicate effectively, work out the game mechanics and spread hints and tips, run organised beacon takedowns, know the siege mechanics so you never lose troops you can't afford etc etc.

Now none of that really matters. You can do none of that, have no understanding of key game mechanics and run a top league. It's a self prophicing loop, the spending happens, it attracts new decent players to join because of the level of free stuff and so the loop continues. You can achieve that without ever sending out a single league mail or doing anything to actually effectively run the league, or have any deep understanding of the game or the meta game.

Out of the top 10 leagues in my server, all of them except one are run by big coiners, or in the case of a couple, people that are engaging in a significant amount of account trading (which doesn't entail mega coining but it does entail spending a lot more than a usual hobby level player)..

DJ Moody said:

Mic999 said:

I

Brawl rewards at the 20m level are 5 times what you can build in a week. The leagues that score that level are supported by serious spending. Whether it be the people willing to do loss making BGs and buy back losses, or just outright speed boosting of troops, arts buildings etc for immediate points. In my server the only leagues scoring 20m are obvious ones supported by big spending.

Same leagues also reached floor 100 in the tower first. Free holy bond for each members. At the time that was only achievable by spending in the thousands of dollars level (good now that it is effectively free to play)

u didnt tell me my knowledge rank :p

ah these are good for someone not willing to post here.not that i mind

glad u brought these up too ! iv taken a snapshot of a brawl to just show others its possible to do so even without or at least with fun lvl spending

glad u also mentioned fun lvl spending too.this was part of my argue about why this feature is good based on snapshots of u and ur side (not agreeing to this feature)

this explanations ill post will be just so great to let people read   this feature is one the best ones iv ever seen ! 

fURY said:

what skill am i ? as a man answer me this !!! from just my tutorials and my posts wha is my skill lvl in ur point of view ? honest ! 

I am more than happy to give you a straight answer to that here if you really want, especially as my manhood is on the line for it  

I think it might be better if we met up in TS, which will probably force us to listen to what each other has to say, treat each other like human beings because it's face to face (so to speak) and come to some mutual common ground where we can potentially disagree on ideas but respect each other as people.

As to your general point about me being an arrogant, big head, who doesn't listen to what anyone has to say.

I can drive a car. It might be easy for me to feel after many years of it I am an expert in cars. But actually I have no idea how the engine works, I certainly can't fix it, not a modern car anyway.

Life is like that too. You know a lot. You can achieve a lot. be successful in many different ways.. But actually none of us has any idea, why we are here, what the universe is, whether there is a god or an afterlife. We are all absolute noobs when it comes to understanding reality. And we should take humility from that, absolutely pointless to have arrogance.

But having said that, I know I can see and recognise other people who can't drive. Whether they are just too under-confident and won't pull out into easy gaps. Drive in the middle lane of motorways because changing lanes is too difficult for them, or drive stupidly aggressively and dangerously because they are way too over-confident in their abilities.

So there is a weird rub of things.While knowing next to nothing, it's still possible to identify ppl that know less than you. It's not not possible to know how many other people are looking at you like that, because its just not objectively possible to know what you don't know and correctly rank yourself on the scale.

If you put that in the context of discussing ideas on the forum, then it';s possible to see other people who are outright "wrong" in their opinions. To be clear, that means the logical and rationale used to reached their opinion is either seriously flawed or just chooses to ignore (or is unaware of) significant other aspects, evidence and facts relevant to the point.

Now interestingly that isn't the same thing as saying their opinion is "wrong". Just that they don't hold a strong enough rational or logical position for them to justify their opinion. There may exist, or someone else could make, far better and more persuasive and complete arguments in favor of their opinion. It's just the ones they used aren't the good valid ones.

So it's quite possible with utter confidence to "know/see" that someone else is completely wrong about something whilst still being none the wiser as to whether your are right.

And if I can understand that, then I don't think I can possible be the person you want to paint me out to be.

DJ Moody said:

fURY said:

what skill am i ? as a man answer me this !!! from just my tutorials and my posts wha is my skill lvl in ur point of view ? honest ! 

I am more than happy to give you a straight answer to that here if you really want, especially as my manhood is on the line for it  

I think it might be better if we met up in TS, which will probably force us to listen to what each other has to say, treat each other like human beings because it's face to face (so to speak) and come to some mutual common ground where we can potentially disagree on ideas but respect each other as people.

So it's quite possible with utter confidence to "know/see" that someone else is completely wrong about something whilst still being none the wiser as to whether your are right.

And if I can understand that, then I don't think I can possible be the person you want to paint me out to be.

so u bring up all these just not to say if its game knowledge im good ,not gonna give my knowledge a rank,or nor i will bring multiverse theories or what aristotle said in front of ur arguments ! 

i will just say i wont allow anyone make changes to this great feature who majority love.tired of all these discussions with u which lead nowhere

u dnt like this feature,i love it

And for the record,, I don't like it..

Furry said

moderators ,first message is to u guys,i ask that please u remove the link as its not of the subject and derailing the topic(if its withing the rules and possibe)

This is all the evidence we need to see why the forum degraded over the last two years. The forum is not your league chat Fury, its a place where payers communicate about the game. You are not forced to read my comments. If you don't like a comment you skip it, you don't tell a moderator to delete it because you don't like the comment. 

Please stop using moderators to fight your personal in-game battles. You are destroying the forum. You don't have to agree with anyone, and no one should agree with you. You don't tell your mini moderators to delete comments because you don't like them. 

Why did you even start this topic if you are just going to bully players that don't agree with you? This is a forum, lets other players talk about the game how they feel like it. STOP IT.