Lord Sison

as far i know bg mechanics has not been changed so they should work as intended.

sure the bank of ur player was not ready for the payout so my tip is to take a breath for a days and rebank again the small payouts ur player could had received.

sooner or later one bg sure will give the big payout, this one sometimes is hard but sure will pay in the moment it will be ready

thank you juglar for your friendly response,let me tell you that i belong in gator nation and the player i talked about is 10blondgirl, we had a conservation about it in the chat and she expressed me that about bgs

i make clear this cause someone probably think that i am the person who lost and i use another person :)

,so since she is a player i apreciate and trust i decided to give it a push here cause she probably noticed something,i did it cause she is a player who have proved her abilities so i also felt worry when a good player say things like that

thanks a lot jug  for beeing here and helping :)

seems the most intresting answer this one ,the ideal person to talk about recourse track is she,she should do a conservation about that

Well to further add to what JUGLAR DEL VIENTO said

I will say these could have happened

1. The player have not banked correctly.
   E.g banking low BG and hitting high level( but these should not matter much), or
   not banking all the bank needs before completing a BG, All resources have to be put in, plus up to 25% bank.
   
   
2. The player was using a bad method of doing BG,
   E.g all in method above level 50
   defending and offending with wrong unit types
3.  The player immediately tossed his reward back into the bank, these inflated his bank, at a level of up to 15% in bank value per BG. These could have easily happened if she hit a sweetspot BG and did many BG immediately after. thus losing his sweetspot rewards(by banking it back) and accumulating more indues fees as she does more BG  

If you are using the banking method remember, every BG has its separate bank value. And if you need rewards, you need to pay each each BG what is due. Think of a BG as a ATM, and not a slot machine, every time you  make a withdrawal the bank charges you fees of up to 15%. So if you withdraw from 10 ATM, you will be have to pay back 10 times 15% back, in every resources you gain back. These is the foundation of the banking method, and many people don't get it. To maximize your reward, make sure that every time you withdraw from your ATM when your are in a sweetspot region. To minimize your rewards, withdraw only when the balance you can get back from your ATM is higher than that of your highest ATM( e.g ''yellowing/banking the highest level BG). These method is faulty, if you hit zero, then, you are likely to try somewhere else( going back to 3).

These is the best explanation I  can make from what was explained to me, when I encountered similar a problem. 

Official statement from Plarium 

We don’t share the exact algorithm for the feature, but here’s the basic outline: every time you attack or defend a [prize], your unit losses are totalled up according to each unit’s price in [Rum, Gold, Lumber]. This running total is your Payout Number. When you get payout from a [Prize], the spread, number, and type of Units or Resources you receive are randomly allocated as measured in resources based on that total.

The longer you go without receiving a payout, the higher your Payout Number total is becoming and the bigger your eventual reward will be (that's if you continue to bank). Now, there are also some randomized triggers when running this calculation – first, it does a “spin” to see if this infestation will pay out this time, or just keep adding to your Payout Number. Depending on how this spin goes, it’s possible to go extremely long periods without getting a payout (even though your Payout Number is still growing over time). This is especially true if you've received big payouts on higher-level [Prizes] and then go back to hitting low-level ones.

The payout frequency is a little higher for the [prize] that pop up directly on the left side of your screen, but those require hitting consecutively higher [prizes] each time. Sometimes you can also “spin” and hit a superbonus, which will trigger a payout worth more than your total investment, but those don’t pop up much.

The biggest misconception is that regular [prizes] each have their own discrete payout amount. I know it often seems like we’re laughing maniacally to ourselves as we change each [Prize] Level’s payouts every week to confound everyone – this isn't true. It doesn't work that way.

The payouts are based on your collective Payout Number; the last time you triggered a payout, and how many Unit losses you've suffered in the meantime. Treat it like Black Jack; play with a long view, don’t bet everything you have, and quit when you’re ahead. It can be frustrating, but senior players have experimented with different strategies and gotten pretty good results. Ask around, but be prepared to lose a lot of troops to get there – don’t commit anything you’re not ready or able to lose without being hamstrung.

Some advice: take advantage of Global Mission events to “double dip” on your investment. Also don’t forget to include the XP, and Ranking Points, ranking awards, Achievement Bonuses, and other freebies you’re getting from taking on the Infestations.

Also, if you want a sure bet, don’t forget about the Campaign [Prizes]. Each one of these has a fixed payout in [Brethren] units that you can view before deciding whether or not to run the mission – plus they all have a pretty cool storyline and audio content, but the higher ones get really, really tough.

In the coming months we’re planning to experiment with the payout frequency algorithm to make it a little less discouraging from the player end, so standby for future announcements.

thanks you guys all, you covered me ,if it is a visible bug we should report to plarium,i sent letter to djmoody to take his opinion about it and i will report it,guys if you see bugs report it to plarium, what else we can do? as djmoody say we must always have evidence,the resource tracking log or something but she doesnt have such a thing

as i said i dont like talk on befalf of another player,but she is by far the best player and have helped our team much ,all gators know it,so i wanted to help me, my team and her

thanks all for your response if it is bug will report it to plarium will expect to hear dj moody opinion from the letter and will see if worth

thanks all !

djmoody said:

Explain the problem she had more.

If she lost tens or hundreds of millions of resource in one cycle (between payouts) then she just encountered the BG bug that many experienced players have unfortunately also hit (the evidence of which has been posted). If so the resource is lost and will never come back.

Will only really be able to tell from a resource tracking log or at least some degree of info.

A bug, is a factual statement, which denote with proof, that there is a programming fault is and which is to blame for a system failure. A glitch is used to suggest that there is a minor fault which will should be rectified.  contact the support team with these information,  You can post it here

• When the glitch occurred 
  
• What causes the glitch to occur, A 
  
• All conditions that were present when you noticed the glitch/bug including the how, when, and what might have happened.  
  

 If you can’t remember then reproduce the bug yourself. When something goes wrong, immediately stop doing anything. Don't touch any buttons at all. Look at the screen and notice everything out of the ordinary, and remember it or write it down. Then perhaps start cautiously pressing "OK" or "Cancel", whichever seems safest.

• A rollback evidencing that these have not being the case so far.  
  

These will help Question and answer team to check the their actual rollback and validate weather in deed these is a bug. A HAR file might help to some extend

• All the possible triggers that causes the said bug. 
  

 if the BG mechanics are really bugged, the Question and answer team would probably have noticed. Since they haven't noticed, it must be working for them. Therefore, either you are doing something differently from them, or your environment is different from theirs. They need information; providing this information is the purpose of a bug report. More information is almost always better than less.

ell them exactly what you did. If it's a graphical bug, tell them which buttons you pressed and what order you pressed them in. If it's a bug caused when you run a typing command, show them precisely what command you typed. Wherever possible, you should provide a verbatim transcript of the session, showing what commands you typed and what the computer output in response.
Give the Support team all the input you can think of. If the program reads from a file, you will probably need to send a copy of the file. 

Take a desktop video of your computer, fire up their BG, and demonstrate the thing that goes wrong. Let them watch you play BG, watch how you interact with the BG mechanics, and watch what the BG mechanics does in response to your inputs.

• Explain fully its effect, and how it affect game play 
  

 What does the bud do to the game, how does it affect your ability to play. Explain these in details. Tell them, if what the said bug makes you feel. And how you will respond. 

IF you continue to insist that BG are bugged, and Plarium knows it( Which they don't because they aren't bugged), then nothing will likely happen.

I have come to a conclusion that BG are not bugged, after doing them wrongly and still received a reward

djmoody said:

Explain the problem she had more.

If she lost tens or hundreds of millions of resource in one cycle (between payouts) then she just encountered the BG bug that many experienced players have unfortunately also hit (the evidence of which has been posted). If so the resource is lost and will never come back.

Will only really be able to tell from a resource tracking log or at least some degree of info.

A bug, is a factual statement, which denote with proof, that there is a programming fault is and which is to blame for a system failure. A glitch is used to suggest that there is a minor fault which will should be rectified.  contact the support team with these information,  You can post it here

• When the glitch occurred 
  
• What causes the glitch to occur, A 
  
• All conditions that were present when you noticed the glitch/bug including the how, when, and what might have happened.  
  

 If you can’t remember then reproduce the bug yourself. When something goes wrong, immediately stop doing anything. Don't touch any buttons at all. Look at the screen and notice everything out of the ordinary, and remember it or write it down. Then perhaps start cautiously pressing "OK" or "Cancel", whichever seems safest.

• A rollback evidencing that these have not being the case so far.  
  

These will help Question and answer team to check the their actual rollback and validate weather in deed these is a bug. A HAR file might help to some extend

• All the possible triggers that causes the said bug. 
  

 if the BG mechanics are really bugged, the Question and answer team would probably have noticed. Since they haven't noticed, it must be working for them. Therefore, either you are doing something differently from them, or your environment is different from theirs. They need information; providing this information is the purpose of a bug report. More information is almost always better than less.

ell them exactly what you did. If it's a graphical bug, tell them which buttons you pressed and what order you pressed them in. If it's a bug caused when you run a typing command, show them precisely what command you typed. Wherever possible, you should provide a verbatim transcript of the session, showing what commands you typed and what the computer output in response.
Give the Support team all the input you can think of. If the program reads from a file, you will probably need to send a copy of the file. 

Take a desktop video of your computer, fire up their BG, and demonstrate the thing that goes wrong. Let them watch you play BG, watch how you interact with the BG mechanics, and watch what the BG mechanics does in response to your inputs.

• Explain fully its effect, and how it affect game play 
  

 What does the bud do to the game, how does it affect your ability to play. Explain these in details. Tell them, if what the said bug makes you feel. And how you will respond. 

IF you continue to insist that BG are bugged, and Plarium knows it( Which they don't because they aren't bugged), then nothing will likely happen.

I have come to a conclusion that BG are not bugged, after doing them wrongly and still received a reward

i cant say personally guys if it is bug or not,as far as i dont have enough hints i cant say something,

it also is nt my problem ,talking on behalf of  my teamate without having enough information is something pointless report what?

it is responsibility of every player to report what he/she observe in the game,thats the ideal person to do it,in this case she not me ,also as oracle say bring clear evidence if you claim you observed a bugs

unfortunately i dont see players work in this ways and i cant do a job of someone else ,i am not the right person i try but it is wrong in my opinion,just do it cause i trust some of my teamates but it is wrong working on behalf of other people(only the person who observe the bug should try it )

djmoody said:

Those are two completely contradictory statements.....

Are people to immediately stop or to try and reproduce the bug? 

Seeing as Plarium are not willing to admit there is a problem despite being given a perfect BG log that makes it obvious and clear, I would highly recommend NOT trying to re-create the bug as you will lose twice as much which you will never get compensated for.

Several experienced players (myself included) have offered to test BG's on accounts provided by Plarium on a live server. I have a potential theory about why it happens. Would be great to be able to test that. Clearly not going to do that on a real account and lose all that person's troops.

Unfortunately, Plarium’s terms of use together with international laws governing gaming doesn’t allow Plarium to authorise such testing. Plarium is not allowed to play let alone authorise someone to play on servers that players play on. The reason being that such act will compromise the stability and balance of the game.

I am willing to help you, in whatever ways possible, getting to the bottom of the mystery behind BG’s. But I can’t do that until I see factual evidence that BG are bugged, especially when played correctly, which Jumy has proved from the logs that they are not.

sison said:

i cant say personally guys if it is bug or not,as far as i dont have enough hints i cant say something,

it also is nt my problem ,talking on behalf of  my teamate without having enough information is something pointless report what?

it is responsibility of every player to report what he/she observe in the game,thats the ideal person to do it,in this case she not me ,also as oracle say bring clear evidence if you claim you observed a bugs

unfortunately i dont see players work in this ways and i cant do a job of someone else ,i am not the right person i try but it is wrong in my opinion,just do it cause i trust some of my teamates but it is wrong working on behalf of other people(only the person who observe the bug should try it )

anyway guys thanks :)

As it is now, we can’t tell what happened. If the player provided you with how he played BG that day, and what happened during the time he noticed something to be wrong, that can help alot.

How does he/she interact with BG? Why she thinks something is off? Asking her these kind of question will help us identify what might have went wrong, rather than blaming Plarium without proof

whether it is a bug or intended, there are times when a player absolutely cannot get a "payout" on levels that should be filled.  a player may go 2 years without this happening to them and thinking that the players that it has happened to are just lousy players.  then it happens to them, and they are like omg did bgs get changed.

whether bgs is constantly changed which plarium denies, or if it something at least 1 1/2 years old that can happen or not happen to anyone, idk.

i doubt that it is random, but it appears random, there must be a trigger.  and getting a jackpot, higher than usual, even tho designed that way will cause there to be hell to pay.  this hell is not worth the xtra jackpot, imo.

players like lordmark have complained about not getting their scheduled payout happening to them, then they throw more troops at it than i make in a month, eventually they get a payout and thank plarium for it.  this confuses.  did lordmark get back paid in full, or is he happy to get partial payment back.  others have lost 100m resources that they are likely never to recover.

when a player begins bgs, they are superman, gaining more troops back then they lose, then a switch gets flipped around  lvl 6,7 or 24 hrs and you get the 25% losses back and the jackpot system starts.  there are switches in this game.

i ran into the situation twice 1 1/2 years ago and again when i started doing bgs again for a month, how players go 2 years without running into it, i do not know.

under normal function, bgs is a resource sink, at least for non-elite players, and then you can run into the situation, whatever it is, a bug or programmed design.

this is my tutorial on playing bgs.

Oracle said:

As it is now, we can’t tell what happened. If the player provided you with how he played BG that day, and what happened during the time he noticed something to be wrong, that can help alot.

How does he/she interact with BG? Why she thinks something is off? Asking he these kind of question will help us identify what might have went wrong, rather than blaming Plarium without proof

i agree with you oracle always need evidence ,since she asked me to stop about it i stop at all she is a big woman if she want to report something she can do,the only thing i say to my teamates and friends in this case is dont underestimate the importance of report,report to plarium a problem doesnt mean that it is useless ,it is important to try talk ,come in contact,describe and prove the existence of the problem(if you have clear evidence of course)

,thank you for your time in this post and generally for your help and your good work in the forum ,i apreciate the time you have spent as a moderator,thanks :)

whether it is a bug or intended, there are times when a player absolutely cannot get a "payout" on levels that should be filled.  a player may go 2 years without this happening to them and thinking that the players that it has happened to are just lousy players.  then it happens to them, and they are like omg did bgs get changed.

whether bgs is constantly changed which plarium denies, or if it something at least 1 1/2 years old that can happen or not happen to anyone, idk.

i doubt that it is random, but it appears random, there must be a trigger.  and getting a jackpot, higher than usual, even tho designed that way will cause there to be hell to pay.  this hell is not worth the xtra jackpot, imo.

players like lordmark have complained about not getting their scheduled payout happening to them, then they throw more troops at it than i make in a month, eventually they get a payout and thank plarium for it.  this confuses.  did lordmark get back paid in full, or is he happy to get partial payment back.  others have lost 100m resources that they are likely never to recover.

when a player begins bgs, they are superman, gaining more troops back then they lose, then a switch gets flipped around  lvl 6,7 or 24 hrs and you get the 25% losses back and the jackpot system starts.  there are switches in this game.

i ran into the situation twice 1 1/2 years ago and again when i started doing bgs again for a month, how players go 2 years without running into it, i do not know.

under normal function, bgs is a resource sink, at least for non-elite players, and then you can run into the situation, whatever it is, a bug or programmed design.

this is my tutorial on playing bgs.

DON"T

I can state one thing that is an absolute fact about BG

If you send in a ticket you will get a response sayig something like this.

the BG are constantly being monitored and deemed working and as such this ticket will not be investigated.

Other than that they are a slot machine which keeps you playing at the hope you will get a return.

Oracle said:

djmoody said:

Those are two completely contradictory statements.....

Are people to immediately stop or to try and reproduce the bug? 

Seeing as Plarium are not willing to admit there is a problem despite being given a perfect BG log that makes it obvious and clear, I would highly recommend NOT trying to re-create the bug as you will lose twice as much which you will never get compensated for.

Several experienced players (myself included) have offered to test BG's on accounts provided by Plarium on a live server. I have a potential theory about why it happens. Would be great to be able to test that. Clearly not going to do that on a real account and lose all that person's troops.

Unfortunately, Plarium’s terms of use together with international laws governing gaming doesn’t allow Plarium to authorise such testing. Plarium is not allowed to play let alone authorise someone to play on servers that players play on. The reason being that such act will compromise the stability and balance of the game.

I am willing to help you, in whatever ways possible, getting to the bottom of the mystery behind BG’s. But I can’t do that until I see factual evidence that BG are bugged, especially when played correctly, which Jumy has proved from the logs that they are not.

Now i know you have stated (in this or another thread), that absolutely the BG's are NOT bugged.

But now you are agreeing with Jumy that there is bug??? but you do not have factual evidence of what exactly it is???

I'm gonna see about some sort of forum message block,,, your posts tend to give me a headache.

djmoody said:

Jumy has proved, using one of the logs, that the player was not playing BG correctly, and proofed beyond doubts that BG are not bugged. Which part of my post give you a headache. As an act of kind gusture I will remove the part that is giving you a headache.

Sorry got to call that utter BS.

Please provide this proof so it can be shown to be completely wrong.

As a side note opener, you know you can't really play BG's "incorrectly" right. There aren't ways of doing them "wrong" that lead to definite losses.

If you take the ''tax hypothesis'' and ''spilt reward'' mechanism into consideration, you might see that there are ways of playing BG wrong. The bank can be messed, infinately, when BG are not played correctly. 

The mystery is, which way is the correct way, and which way is not. By the look of complaints, I can come to conclusion that, those complaining are playing them wrong. But these is hypothetical too. Especially because you refuse to tell how you play BG, there is no way of telling which way is wrong( as any other mechanics has been squandered. 

You hoard ways of playing BG, citing ''competitive advantage'' and further more, you refuse to reproduce events that leads to a ''so called bug''. So as it is the is no way you can get help. 

The way I see it, if Plarium was to see you interacting with BG mechanics, and then encountering the ''bug'', maybe they will help. If you tell the community how you interact with BG mechanics, maybe someone will notice something ''off'', and help yo solve your ''bug''. 

Oracle said:

djmoody said:

Jumy has proved, using one of the logs, that the player was not playing BG correctly, and proofed beyond doubts that BG are not bugged. Which part of my post give you a headache. As an act of kind gusture I will remove the part that is giving you a headache.

Sorry got to call that utter BS.

Please provide this proof so it can be shown to be completely wrong.

As a side note opener, you know you can't really play BG's "incorrectly" right. There aren't ways of doing them "wrong" that lead to definite losses.

If you take the ''tax hypothesis'' and ''spilt reward'' mechanism into consideration, you might see that there are ways of playing BG wrong. The bank can be messed, infinately, when BG are not played correctly. 

The mystery is, which way is the correct way, and which way is not. By the look of complaints, I can come to conclusion that, those complaining are playing them wrong. But these is hypothetical too. Especially because you refuse to tell how you play BG, there is no way of telling which way is wrong( as any other mechanics has been squandered. 

You hoard ways of playing BG, citing ''competitive advantage'' and further more, you refuse to reproduce events that leads to a ''so called bug''. So as it is the is no way you can get help. 

The way I see it, if Plarium was to see you interacting with BG mechanics, and then encountering the ''bug'', maybe they will help. If you tell the community how you interact with BG mechanics, maybe someone will notice something ''off'', and help yo solve your ''bug''. 

what are the odds that the average internet player will play "incorrectly", a mystery in which no one can agree what is correct and what is incorrect?

even the elite must be playing incorrectly, and they have no idea what this "incorrect" situation is, for afterward, they continue to play according to what they believe to be correct.  and for a period of time they get what they consider to be the correct scheduled payout.  this they do with no change in tactics.  then they run into the situation again.  this they do without changing tactics.

how are your tactics correct, and then without changing them incorrect, and then without changing them, correct again?  it is plariums manipulations, many triggered by their "overpayment" in their jackpot system.  like you said the bank is messed infinitely.  you must drop at least one pay grade to get a "payout"  but then you will never recover what you lost.

for a normal, casual player, all the mystery and manipulation makes it to where the only way you can play the game is incorrectly.  {against natural logic and reason.}  this in most every part of a plarium games.

my tutorial remains the same

DON'T

edit: reproducing the bug is a hard thing to do since;  1.  it is triggered by a random generated jackpot.  2.  it takes alot of resources "real life money"  for the higher levels who know what they are doing.

BGs have some serious issues. added a lot more than just interest and guess what, got out empty handed. same thing happens to league mate today. And i might say im no expert on BGs but i do very good math, and mate is expert on BGs and got the same result as i did. Bgs have issue. and there should be clear and visible pot in eagles nest so people can actually see whats going on insted of having spreadsheets with calculators installed. So if Plarium has enough resources to develop more and more things for the game its unbelievable that they don't have resources to build a small ( big ) help for players that enjoy doing BGs. So please Plarium do a miracle and create some kind of tool for players that spend money and time on this nice game. 

djmoody said:

What I didn't ask you do was yet again make up a bullshit statement slandering me personally. Now the 3rd thread you have done that in.

You can't just make stuff up about people you don't like because they ask you difficult questions. It's totally shameless and bang out of order. 

You're are very sensitive. I haven't slandered you, Nor am I actively attacking you. I don't want to become your enemy. I wish we could have better understanding with each other. 

I don't know how is stating your actions which are publicly known is slander. We know you're good in BG. But refuse all the time to tell of the secrets of how you are ''soo good in BG''. We know that as a fact. So how is saying DJ moody don't make BG tutorials an act of slander when in fact you haven't made BG tutorials. 

About the second part. 

I like to discuss and expand in many things you say. Sometimes I do it to force you to expand. You might feel ''offended'' by me asking you questions and begging for an expansion. But I only do it because I value you as a member of the forum. And I know that you try to be as helpful as possible, unlike many. You are also able to cast aside your difference and help players. So as a moderator, responding to your posts is an obligation, especially on matters of you saying there is a bug. Its my duty to find out if there is a bug, and so far I have tried to push you to produce evidence, or explain one that you have. 

The truth is you have confused me with someone else, or think I represent someone else (maybe of a misunderstanding we might have in the past, or from bad intel). So you see every reply I make to you as an attack.