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The REAL Arena Problem !

The REAL Arena Problem !

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Dec 31, 2021, 13:4212/31/21
10/08/17
985

The REAL Arena Problem !

Speed needs to be calculated properly into the algorithem for choosing  opponents

No one can deny that speed is  the major factor in determining who wins Arena. If you disagree then tell me how many battles  in arena you win when you go second VS the amount  of Arena wins you have when you go first?

Yes I know about "go second" team builds, but does  not change the fact that the META is speed builds  in this game

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37
Comments
Dec 31, 2021, 13:5112/31/21
04/12/21
499

Like everything else in the game it is not always just that simple.  I have gone first many times and still got whacked. Also do the same thing back at my attackers who go first. So in both of those instances (I go first they go first) the key thing is a good defense.  Vying for better defense and longer lasting stamina takes the pressure off of the speed game here. Jmho

Choosing opponents: that science is over my pay grade, sorry, ask Dr Fauci.

Dec 31, 2021, 13:5512/31/21
10/08/17
985
End Is Near

Like everything else in the game it is not always just that simple.  I have gone first many times and still got whacked. Also do the same thing back at my attackers who go first. So in both of those instances (I go first they go first) the key thing is a good defense.  Vying for better defense and longer lasting stamina takes the pressure off of the speed game here. Jmho

Choosing opponents: that science is over my pay grade, sorry, ask Dr Fauci.

@ horseman   Ask Dr Fauci?

Do you mean I need a booster to get better results?

Dec 31, 2021, 14:4312/31/21
04/12/21
499

I guess in some ways, yes lol

Dec 31, 2021, 15:4712/31/21
06/28/21
85

The only member of my team being faster than the opponents team is my Valk in about 80% of fights.

I win at least 60% of my fights, buts usually 80% or more. Although I just do enough for my dailies and clanstars but not much more as I don't have an optimal arena team.

Dec 31, 2021, 18:1412/31/21
04/12/21
499

atm I am winning 67% in silver 3

just trying to get some Level 2 medals I used to be in gold, things went lots quicker then, back in the bots days.

Most of the time I can do the dailies but that gets boring.

harleQuinnModerator
Dec 31, 2021, 19:2312/31/21
Jan 1, 2022, 15:59(edited)
02/24/19
7486

Go second teams are real, and do really well. Here's a friend's current win rate from today using exclusively go second teams.

i

Is his team supposed to be a lower power cause it is high resist, go second? His win rate shows otherwise. And more than that, how am I supposed to know with Power Rating which teams are high resist versus which team are speed if all the stats are weighted the same?

Right now I can look at high power teams, mid power teams and low power teams, and KNOW about how fast and about how resistant they will be. If we make the stats equal, or even bring speed up to resistance, no one could ever get any info on how a Siphi or Krisk was built. The power means NOTHING now, in this scenario.

Experience playing arena makes you better at interpreting power rating and the team you should be subbing in. You need experience at arena before you even realize you need several different team compositions that you select between based on the champs you are facing and their power rating.

Changing all stats to be equal takes that vital part of the game out of high gold and plat.

Dec 31, 2021, 21:1412/31/21
10/08/17
985

Guess I am just playing a different classic arena than you guys :/

As Trips says "Dude get gud"

harleQuinnModerator
Dec 31, 2021, 21:2212/31/21
02/24/19
7486
PriestGuardian

Guess I am just playing a different classic arena than you guys :/

As Trips says "Dude get gud"

Maybe so. ;) 

Arena is tough stuff. If you want some awesome go second builds and teams, he sent me his list and I can share?

Dec 31, 2021, 22:3612/31/21
Dec 31, 2021, 22:39(edited)
06/20/19
2181

I go first 1% to 9% of matches I choose.  I win 70% to 90% of matches I choose.  Matches typically last 3 to 7 minutes, sometimes 15 minutes.  

Not sure how to address your real qustion though.  Is the power rating giving important information? Yes.  Could it be better?  Certainly so?  Maybe they should give power by stat stats.  I.e. team SPD rating, team ATT rating, etc.  Thing is, that would make it even more disadvantageous to the defense.  Offense already has every advantage.  You might as well just let attackers look at the champs skills upgrades, ascension, gear, etc.

harleQuinnModerator
Jan 1, 2022, 00:1501/01/22
Jan 1, 2022, 00:15(edited)
02/24/19
7486
Angwil

I go first 1% to 9% of matches I choose.  I win 70% to 90% of matches I choose.  Matches typically last 3 to 7 minutes, sometimes 15 minutes.  

Not sure how to address your real qustion though.  Is the power rating giving important information? Yes.  Could it be better?  Certainly so?  Maybe they should give power by stat stats.  I.e. team SPD rating, team ATT rating, etc.  Thing is, that would make it even more disadvantageous to the defense.  Offense already has every advantage.  You might as well just let attackers look at the champs skills upgrades, ascension, gear, etc.

Another faithful follower of the Gospel of Saint GoSecond!!

Jan 1, 2022, 01:5601/01/22
10/08/17
985

As much as I can appreciate the go second team builds, I personally just do not see enough (or face off) of them in my match ups. Its like I only see a page of teams with speed booster champions  in them and those individual speed booster champs  on those teams are deadly fast getting that first play off

I took a close look at my gear on my speed booster Ma Shal and swapped  out his weapon piece (which had  no sub stat speed) for another that increased his speed by another 18 :)  was a six star item with double roll on speed and speed glyph

Tried another round  in arena and at least initial trials seem to show an improvement at him going first and able to boost my team with speed  before the enemy gets a turn

A small glimmer  of hope for me yet perhaps

I do like the challenge 

Jan 1, 2022, 02:0301/01/22
06/20/19
2181

I don't see a lot of go seconds either.  9 of 10 matches I see have Arbiter lead so yeah, I get that spd is the 'in' team.  We just both have to keep finding and building on what is working for us.

Jan 1, 2022, 04:1301/01/22
604
PriestGuardian

Guess I am just playing a different classic arena than you guys :/

As Trips says "Dude get gud"

No you dont playing different arena. I want to meet with those second teams. No matter what they said, the speed factor is the most important thing in the arena at moment. Almost 100 percent of battles you will win if you starting and if u have correct team. Strategy ? Ok they have when they setting up your teams, but the enemies is not real players in real time,just AI, and second thing, you can choose which enemy will be fine for you. He has a Valkirye , you wont use buff just debuff first on them and he cant use counter attack buffs.They wont be unkillables. Skullcrown wont be resurrect etc etc etc.  Shame, but no matter what they said, if you are faster you controlled the battles. 

Jan 1, 2022, 08:1301/01/22
06/20/19
2181
harleQuinn

Go second teams are real, and do really well. Here's a friend's current win rate from today using exclusively go second teams.

i

Is his team supposed to be a lower power cause it is high resist, go second? His win rate shows otherwise. And more than that, how am I supposed to know with Power Rating which teams are high resist versus which team are speed if all the stats are weighted the same?

Right now I can look at high power teams, mid power teams and low power teams, and KNOW about how fast and about how resistant they will be. If we make the stats equal, or even bring speed up to resistance, no one could ever get any info on how a Siphi or Krisk was built. The power means NOTHING now, in this scenario.

Experience playing arena makes you better at interpreting power rating and the team you should be subbing in. You need experience at arena before you even realize you need several different team compositions that you select between based on the champs you are facing and their power rating.

Changing all stats to be equal takes that vital part of the game out of high gold and plat.

Well said.

Jan 1, 2022, 08:2701/01/22
06/28/21
85
Deleted

No you dont playing different arena. I want to meet with those second teams. No matter what they said, the speed factor is the most important thing in the arena at moment. Almost 100 percent of battles you will win if you starting and if u have correct team. Strategy ? Ok they have when they setting up your teams, but the enemies is not real players in real time,just AI, and second thing, you can choose which enemy will be fine for you. He has a Valkirye , you wont use buff just debuff first on them and he cant use counter attack buffs.They wont be unkillables. Skullcrown wont be resurrect etc etc etc.  Shame, but no matter what they said, if you are faster you controlled the battles. 

Apart from my valk everyone is usally slower than the enemy team. I still win the majority of battles with a combined team power of 83k against teams with 30%plus higher power. I rarely find a team as low powered as mine, usually the minimum power i face is 110k.

Some days I even have a positive winrate on my defense with that annoying team.


Jan 1, 2022, 08:3801/01/22
604

Enough an Ugoo who faster then your Valk or faster Deacon Armstrong before a  block debuffer  and your strategy is gone. I know, i see many times  how fallen a 250k-300k power rated second team, from a 150k strong good builded team.


Jan 1, 2022, 10:2001/01/22
12/09/21
22

1. You dont ubderstand meta at all

2. Meta starts in plat with 460 spd siphi+4 in hydra gear

3. Getting to gold 4 is just ez as joke

So whats the problem?

Jan 1, 2022, 17:3201/01/22
Jan 1, 2022, 17:33(edited)
10/08/17
985
12313

1. You dont ubderstand meta at all

2. Meta starts in plat with 460 spd siphi+4 in hydra gear

3. Getting to gold 4 is just ez as joke

So whats the problem?

You yourself say speed is everything in Plat arena, I mean 460 speed is insane

The 'problem' I see is that power score does  not correctly display this as power.  I think speed is very much part of the Meta and should be a bigger  part of the power score

You tell me you do not think it a problem that speed is calculated more correctly to display actual team power?

harleQuinnModerator
Jan 1, 2022, 17:4001/01/22
02/24/19
7486
PriestGuardian

You yourself say speed is everything in Plat arena, I mean 460 speed is insane

The 'problem' I see is that power score does  not correctly display this as power.  I think speed is very much part of the Meta and should be a bigger  part of the power score

You tell me you do not think it a problem that speed is calculated more correctly to display actual team power?

Low power, high ranked teams with a good speed lead, a dec defense and a nuker are going to be fast. So I would put in a slow, tanky, high resist team, survive their attack, rez my team and wreck em. Or I would A1 their fastest champ with Hegemon, then Arbiter boost and provoke lockout with Maulie or Umbral.

Very high power, very high ranked teams with defensive champs will be slow and resist everything. So I put in a Yoshi to increase accuracy, strip them with Serris, and wreck em. Or, if Tormin, let Dark Elhain just do her thing and wreck with every freeze.

Like I said above, if you make Speed and Resistance weighted the same, you take away my ability to assess which teams do what. How do I tell a fast Siphi from a high resistance Siphi if their power is both 60k? The answer is, I don't.

What you are asking for would make arena more difficult, at least for people who have worked to learn the different arena strats and team compositions, and how to combat them with our own team changes.

harleQuinnModerator
Jan 1, 2022, 18:2401/01/22
02/24/19
7486

Trips was posting on this when it came up one day earlier or so. To quote him:

i