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Speed Comparison Tournament

Speed Comparison Tournament

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May 18, 2021, 17:1205/18/21
12/20/20
13

Speed Comparison Tournament

Im  sure  Im  just  kicking  a  dead  horse  here  but  can buffs  and  debuffs  be  nerfed/weakened   in  arena  please. I  do  not  care  what  your  comp  is  there  is  no  reason  a  match should  be  over  in  the  first  round  versus  a  player  the  game  says  is  approximately your  equal.  If  not  just  rename it from  "arena"  to  "speed  gear  comparison tournament"  ...  because  that  is  all  it  is. 

Just  my  opinion  ¯\_( ツ)_/¯

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74
Comments
45
Comments
May 18, 2021, 17:2205/18/21
11/29/20
114

at the very least, speed should very heavily reflect player power.  as it is, seems to have no bearing on it at all.

May 18, 2021, 17:3605/18/21
06/25/20
850
chris

at the very least, speed should very heavily reflect player power.  as it is, seems to have no bearing on it at all.

100% agreed.

May 18, 2021, 18:0205/18/21
12/19/19
2705

I like power the way it is, I think it would be far less useful if speed was heavily factored into the calculation.  I see no benefit to incorporating speed myself.  


May 18, 2021, 18:0305/18/21
12/20/20
13

I  can  live  with  speed  being  the  top  tier  stat  in  arena  tbh  ...  its  the  fact  that  you  can  be  debuffed  into  oblivion  before  you  even  get  a  turn  simply because  the  other  team  went  first.  Speed  isnt  my  issue  per  se  ...  the  potency  of  buffs  and  debuffs  are.   A buff/debuff  or  its potency should  not  be  the  same  for  both  a  CB  or  a  lvl  25  dungeon and  an  arena  fight.

May 18, 2021, 18:0905/18/21
12/19/19
2705

Questions for those of you wanting a different power calculation:


  1. What would would you propose? 
  2. How would it be more useful than currently?
  3. Do you think it is going to tell you if you will go 1st?
May 18, 2021, 18:1605/18/21
11/29/20
114

Since we all know the current power calcs are pretty much useless, and who goes first wins with the current meta, I think it'd be far more useful than the current basically meaningless number.

Wouldn't tell me who goes first, but it'd give me an idea of who's built fast and who's not.

May 18, 2021, 18:1605/18/21
06/25/20
850
Trips

Questions for those of you wanting a different power calculation:


  1. What would would you propose? 
  2. How would it be more useful than currently?
  3. Do you think it is going to tell you if you will go 1st?

I don't know what the current weights are. But as an example, my speed nuke team is Arbiter, Kymar, Nethril, Bigun. My team power is 130K. Most of my gear is level 16 and 6*, with the occasional level 16 5* and the occasional level 12 5*.

I would expect my team power to be closer to 180k, maybe even as high as 200k.

How would it be more useful? If I'm looking at my opponents and see that they are running a speed nuke team, and their team power is, say, 130k, then I'm fairly confident that my 180k team power (under my above proposal) will win.

Currently, it's more of a complete guess. Is that team with 200k team power running an Arbiter with 350 speed along with a bunch of other good gear? Or is it a resist/defence team?

Because speed is so low-valued, you basically have zero way of being able to predict how fast they are.

May 18, 2021, 18:1705/18/21
05/13/19
2124
Lindron

I  can  live  with  speed  being  the  top  tier  stat  in  arena  tbh  ...  its  the  fact  that  you  can  be  debuffed  into  oblivion  before  you  even  get  a  turn  simply because  the  other  team  went  first.  Speed  isnt  my  issue  per  se  ...  the  potency  of  buffs  and  debuffs  are.   A buff/debuff  or  its potency should  not  be  the  same  for  both  a  CB  or  a  lvl  25  dungeon and  an  arena  fight.

Your  not  really  beating  a  dead  horse  because  no  one  has  ever  asked  for  buff/debuff  changes  in  Arena.

I  think  you  are  the  first  I  have  seen.


I  don't understand why  you  want  a  buff/debuff  change.

Arena  has  been  this  way  for  years.


Comparing  CB  to  Arena  is  flawed.

You  have  to  take  hits  in  CB.


Players  normally  have  to  build  there  heroes to  be  able  to  withstand  hits.

You  want  your  hero  to  have  damage,  but  you  need  them  to  stay  alive.

This  causes  your  damage  to  get  scaled  back.


Arena  is  different because you  dont  have  to  hold  back  on  your  damage.

You  can  go  full  glass  cannon.

You  don't have  to  worry about  taking  enemy  hits  if  your  team  is  fast  &  aggressive  enough.

May 18, 2021, 18:2305/18/21
12/20/20
13
Player J

Your  not  really  beating  a  dead  horse  because  no  one  has  ever  asked  for  buff/debuff  changes  in  Arena.

I  think  you  are  the  first  I  have  seen.


I  don't understand why  you  want  a  buff/debuff  change.

Arena  has  been  this  way  for  years.


Comparing  CB  to  Arena  is  flawed.

You  have  to  take  hits  in  CB.


Players  normally  have  to  build  there  heroes to  be  able  to  withstand  hits.

You  want  your  hero  to  have  damage,  but  you  need  them  to  stay  alive.

This  causes  your  damage  to  get  scaled  back.


Arena  is  different because you  dont  have  to  hold  back  on  your  damage.

You  can  go  full  glass  cannon.

You  don't have  to  worry about  taking  enemy  hits  if  your  team  is  fast  &  aggressive  enough.

Then  you  fully  support  the  concept  of  "speed  comparison tournament".  Anybody  can  build  a  glass  cannon  team  ...  the  only  thing  that  matters in  that  world is  speed.

But  if  buffs/debuffs  are  watered  down  enough  in  arena  that  you  can  still  have  ample  opportunity to  recover  even  though  the  other  team  had  a  better  speedster     ...  now  you  are  talking  about  a  match  between  two  teams  rather  than  a  single  turn  by  one.

May 19, 2021, 01:1605/19/21
05/13/19
2124
Lindron

Then  you  fully  support  the  concept  of  "speed  comparison tournament".  Anybody  can  build  a  glass  cannon  team  ...  the  only  thing  that  matters in  that  world is  speed.

But  if  buffs/debuffs  are  watered  down  enough  in  arena  that  you  can  still  have  ample  opportunity to  recover  even  though  the  other  team  had  a  better  speedster     ...  now  you  are  talking  about  a  match  between  two  teams  rather  than  a  single  turn  by  one.

The  problem with  your  argument is  only  "Low  Tier  Arena  Players"  are  the  ones  complaining  about  Speed  Teams.

The  "High  Tier  Arena  Players"  are  the  ones  complaining about  Tank/Stall  Teams.


The  Arena  Meta  is  Anti-Speed.

Players  have  heros  such  as:

Hegemon  -  Who  has  a  passives  that  bypass  the  speed  mechanic.

Tormin  -  Who  has  a  passive  that  Freeze  teams  if  they  try  to  Turn  Meter  Fill.

Duchess  -  Who  has  a  passive  that  reduces  Enemy  Icoming  Damage.

The  List  goes  on  and  on


In  addition,  The  game  released  Gear  Sets  +  Acccessories.

Swift  Parry  -  50%  Chance  to  do  Unkillable Buff  I.E  50%  Chance  you  never  die.

Reaction  Accessories  -  25%  Chance  to  Reduce  your  chances  of  the  enemy  Critical  Hitting  you  if  your  team  hasn't  had  a  turn  first.  


All  these  things  overlap  to  the  point  that  having  a  "Speed  Team"  isn't  best.

The  Meta  (Most  Effective  Tactics Availabile)  is  to  have  Non-Speed  Team.


Non-Speed  Fights  are  not  enjoyable.

Every  fight  last  upwards  of  30  mins  or  longer.


Speed  Fights  happen  fast.

I.E  -  you  win  or  lose  in  seconds.

You  can  use  10  Arena  Tokens  in  5 mins  vs.  5  hours.


Everything  you  say  goes  against what  High  Level  Players  want  for  Arena.

RNG  30  min  fights  -  It's all  utter  trash.


May 19, 2021, 03:1005/19/21
12/20/20
13
Player J

The  problem with  your  argument is  only  "Low  Tier  Arena  Players"  are  the  ones  complaining  about  Speed  Teams.

The  "High  Tier  Arena  Players"  are  the  ones  complaining about  Tank/Stall  Teams.


The  Arena  Meta  is  Anti-Speed.

Players  have  heros  such  as:

Hegemon  -  Who  has  a  passives  that  bypass  the  speed  mechanic.

Tormin  -  Who  has  a  passive  that  Freeze  teams  if  they  try  to  Turn  Meter  Fill.

Duchess  -  Who  has  a  passive  that  reduces  Enemy  Icoming  Damage.

The  List  goes  on  and  on


In  addition,  The  game  released  Gear  Sets  +  Acccessories.

Swift  Parry  -  50%  Chance  to  do  Unkillable Buff  I.E  50%  Chance  you  never  die.

Reaction  Accessories  -  25%  Chance  to  Reduce  your  chances  of  the  enemy  Critical  Hitting  you  if  your  team  hasn't  had  a  turn  first.  


All  these  things  overlap  to  the  point  that  having  a  "Speed  Team"  isn't  best.

The  Meta  (Most  Effective  Tactics Availabile)  is  to  have  Non-Speed  Team.


Non-Speed  Fights  are  not  enjoyable.

Every  fight  last  upwards  of  30  mins  or  longer.


Speed  Fights  happen  fast.

I.E  -  you  win  or  lose  in  seconds.

You  can  use  10  Arena  Tokens  in  5 mins  vs.  5  hours.


Everything  you  say  goes  against what  High  Level  Players  want  for  Arena.

RNG  30  min  fights  -  It's all  utter  trash.


The  exception  does  not  nullify  the  general  case  ...  but  your  anecdotal rant  is  noted. 

May 19, 2021, 03:3505/19/21
05/13/19
2124

You  have  no  General Case.

Everything  you  said  is  nullified.


You  said  Arena  is  infested  with  Speed.

I  just  told  you  the  Best  Arena  Set  up  in  the  game  is  Anti-Speed  set  up.


The  6  time  reigning  Arena  Champion  made  video  yesterday  saying  Anti-Speed  set  up  is  King  of  Arena.


Enjoy  it  while  it  last!

May 19, 2021, 03:5505/19/21
May 19, 2021, 03:57(edited)
12/20/20
13

Player  J  ive  played  in  all  tiers  to  G4  ...  i  know  the  comps  of  99%  of  the  player  base  uses. Ive  fought  in  matches  that  last  3  seconds  and  ive  fought  in  matches  that  went  30  minutes.  You  are  trying  to  flex  on  someone  that  has  not  only  a  good  understanding of  what  is  going  on in  this  game  but  also  many  other  types  of  pvp/pve  games.  The  fact  of  the  matter  is  my  original point  would  not  only  help  versus  "low"  speed  team  but  also  "high"  tank  teams  and  everything in  between.  I  have  a  defensive team  i  built  for  the  sole  purpose of  making  you  just  quit  the  fight  ...  you  know  what  would  kill  that  team?  ....  watered  down  buffs/debuffs  in  arena  ...  my  original point.  Gasp.


Either  way  ...  your  point  has  been  made.  If  you  feel  you  need  to  continue  to  expound  on  it  perhaps  youshould  consider making  your  own  thread  on  it.

May 19, 2021, 05:4205/19/21
05/13/19
2124

I'm  not  Flexing.

I  was  simply  countering  your  point.

You  have  acknowledged  I  have  proven  my  point.


BUT  if  you  really  want  to  see  me  Flex.

I  will  create  an  entirely  different counter  point.


You  say  you  want  watered  down  Buffs/Debuffs  for  Arena.

I  would  agrue  the  game  already  does  this  in  Arena.


Take  the  following example  into  consideration:

I  have  a  F2P  friend  who  made  the  following Arena  team:

-  Apothecary

-  SpiritHost 

-  Bellower

-  Athel


Bellower  is  the  Decrease  Defense  hero.

Bellower   is  using  a  Water  Down  Decrease  Defense  Debuff.


The  game  has  2  different  types  of  Defense  Down

-  Big  Version  60%

-  Small  Version  30%


The  Small  Version  would  be  the  Water  Down  Version  you  are  asking  for  is  it  not?

It  doesn't change  anything.

May 19, 2021, 10:5205/19/21
12/20/20
13
Player J

I'm  not  Flexing.

I  was  simply  countering  your  point.

You  have  acknowledged  I  have  proven  my  point.


BUT  if  you  really  want  to  see  me  Flex.

I  will  create  an  entirely  different counter  point.


You  say  you  want  watered  down  Buffs/Debuffs  for  Arena.

I  would  agrue  the  game  already  does  this  in  Arena.


Take  the  following example  into  consideration:

I  have  a  F2P  friend  who  made  the  following Arena  team:

-  Apothecary

-  SpiritHost 

-  Bellower

-  Athel


Bellower  is  the  Decrease  Defense  hero.

Bellower   is  using  a  Water  Down  Decrease  Defense  Debuff.


The  game  has  2  different  types  of  Defense  Down

-  Big  Version  60%

-  Small  Version  30%


The  Small  Version  would  be  the  Water  Down  Version  you  are  asking  for  is  it  not?

It  doesn't change  anything.

Yes  if  everyone used  the  the  weaker  one  that  would  be  exactly  what  i  am  talking  about  ...  congrats sir.  Not  only  do  you  finally  get  it  but  you  showed how  easily  Plaruim  can  implement it.  Good  job.

(psst  btw  if  someone  tells  you  "you  made  your  point"  that  is  them  telling  you  to  gtfo  but  politely)

May 19, 2021, 11:0405/19/21
07/05/19
748
Trips

Questions for those of you wanting a different power calculation:


  1. What would would you propose? 
  2. How would it be more useful than currently?
  3. Do you think it is going to tell you if you will go 1st?

Actually it's simple, make all stats weighs the same in the power calculation.


As it is, Defense and Resistance seemed to be weighted more than any other stats, while speed seems to have very little weight.


So make it simple and make ALL of the stats weight the same in player power calculation

OracleCommunity Manager
May 19, 2021, 11:1605/19/21
03/02/21
398

Hi! I have to say that Team power includes many factors in the calculation, and Speed is among them. Still, Team power provides you only with a rough estimate of a team's strength. It can give you some approximate idea about your chances to beat an opponent, but, of course, it doesn't take into account your particular tactics, synergy, Champions' actions sequence, etc., so don't rely on it too much

May 19, 2021, 11:2905/19/21
02/14/21
121
Oracle

Hi! I have to say that Team power includes many factors in the calculation, and Speed is among them. Still, Team power provides you only with a rough estimate of a team's strength. It can give you some approximate idea about your chances to beat an opponent, but, of course, it doesn't take into account your particular tactics, synergy, Champions' actions sequence, etc., so don't rely on it too much

What are we to rely on then?


Sometimes the things youpost make no sense at all, sorry.


May 19, 2021, 11:3605/19/21
12/20/20
13
Oracle

Hi! I have to say that Team power includes many factors in the calculation, and Speed is among them. Still, Team power provides you only with a rough estimate of a team's strength. It can give you some approximate idea about your chances to beat an opponent, but, of course, it doesn't take into account your particular tactics, synergy, Champions' actions sequence, etc., so don't rely on it too much

I  like  the  idea  of  " particular tactics, synergy, Champions' actions sequence  etc"  ...  it  is  what  most  expect  in  pvp/arena!  I  personally  believe  that  watered  down  buffs/debuffs  would  enhance those  attributes of  the  arena  experience.  Most  of  the  way  from  bronze1  through  gold4  what  is  the most  common   leader?  ...  a  speed  provider.  All  the  different attribute choices  available in  this  game  and  the  overwhelming number  of  teams  have  the  same  thing  should  show  an  unbalance.  While  i  wouldnt  want  to  see  speed  in  particular nerfed  ...  i  feel  that  if  buffs/debuffs  were  not  so  strong  in  arena  then  matches  would  not  be  decided  by  who  had  the  fastest  speedster  but  rather  who  had  the  best  " particular tactics, synergy, Champions' actions sequence  etc"  😁👍

May 19, 2021, 13:5105/19/21
12/19/19
2705
lee.ozz.0213

Actually it's simple, make all stats weighs the same in the power calculation.


As it is, Defense and Resistance seemed to be weighted more than any other stats, while speed seems to have very little weight.


So make it simple and make ALL of the stats weight the same in player power calculation

And then the power stat will be useless to both an intelligent person and complete idiot....

Seriously, now it gives us an idea of team "strength" in terms of resist and/or CD (I think these are 2 most heavily weighted).  We infer a speed team based on the comp/leader, and know the range (obv very tight at the moment) based on tier we are in and whether they are at the bottom of our list or top.  

Weighting everything equally removes all value from the power stat imo.