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Banking in Prize Missions.

92 Replies
ASH
28 June, 2016, 4:12 AM UTC
JONGELEUR  raises an interesting point.  It would be nice to be able to see exactly what our Prize Bank is it.  Even if it was a one time deal.
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Blasphemy
Moderator
28 June, 2016, 12:24 PM UTC

ASH said:


JONGELEUR  raises an interesting point.  It would be nice to be able to see exactly what our Prize Bank is it.  Even if it was a one time deal.

great idea please share this idea here THANK YOU


http://plarium.com/forum/en/pirates-tides-of-fortune/suggestions-and-feedback/topics/your-suggestions-4/2/

I am a daughter of a High King who is not moved by this world for my God is with me and goes before me, I do not fear because im his
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Alyona Kolomiitseva
Community Manager
30 June, 2016, 8:58 AM UTC

I see that you all are very interested in this topic, and I would like to share some additional information which should be summed up:

1. Prizes banking system still works as it did before the Update.

2. Small payouts won't replace big payouts, they come as an addition.

3. Small payouts are still payouts, so they are somehow connected to your Bank.

4. The size of a possible payout wasn't changed.

5. The strength of Prizes was not changed.

6. We will not change the system back.

7. I have passed your feedback to our developers.

8. If you have any questions or need some clarifications, please ask.

9. If you didn't receive a single Unit from a Prize, there are two reasons:

a) You didn't have any losses on it.

b) You raided this Prize before the Update.

Please remember that there is some information which I will be unable to share.

Plarium Community Manager. Please note that I will be unable to respond to your private messages, review your tickets, or check your account information. All technical issues should be directed to our Support Team at plrm.me/Support_Plarium
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stimie01
30 June, 2016, 10:02 PM UTC
Please explain the new prize payout system to me that Plarium has initiated. It is obviously not the same as before. I receive significantly less back now than before in addition the experience points received are significantly less.
UTC +4:00
Alyona Kolomiitseva
Community Manager
1 July, 2016, 9:51 AM UTC

stimie01 said:


Please explain the new prize payout system to me that Plarium has initiated. It is obviously not the same as before. I receive significantly less back now than before in addition the experience points received are significantly less.

Now you have:

1) Mini-payouts to make sure you will always have some Units to throw into the fight.

2) Big payouts which you will receive as usual. But they will come rarely, as they did before.


Plarium Community Manager. Please note that I will be unable to respond to your private messages, review your tickets, or check your account information. All technical issues should be directed to our Support Team at plrm.me/Support_Plarium
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cc
9 August, 2016, 1:43 AM UTC
No matter how you try to explain prizes are the same, they are not. I have tried several methods and after 10-30 attemps I am lower in offense than when I started. Now I am down and can't build up, so that doesn't work either. I was waiting til prestige ran out in 19 days to see if I quit. Another friend quit today and several are less active. The game is slow if you don't buy many rubies a week. I am disapointed and bored. Might quit the next few days. Heard two other pirate games started and refreshed since so many are mad here, I hoped you would fix this game but I have just about given up. 
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Icy
Moderator
20 August, 2016, 12:35 AM UTC

Something I learned that might help you out the during this recent prize tournament. You need 3 items to succeed in the lighthouse:


1. a prestige activator, this boost helps with both off and def stats depending on your prestige level.

2. Offense boost if you can get a 20% rather than the 10% it makes a big difference

3. Defense Boost, same info as #2

 4. Is out of game fine yourself a lighthouse guide with power levels of each prize level. The likely hood is you'll find only levels 1-100. you're not likely to find 101 -150 just yet. 


To come back though from major losses start at the bottom level 2+ and work your way up. Plus remember to que troops as much as possible. Both combined will give you the boost you need to be able to hit higher prizes to win big. Won't say exactly what my last payout was but it was over 20 million in offense on a level 120. Also whatever those guides tell you each prize needs to beat. go higher the more you send the more likely you'll beat it and more troops will return.

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Astaroth
1 September, 2016, 9:48 PM UTC

I was searching for as much info about prizes as possible and the outcome is that I'm confused.


So basically, you train some number of units, let's say 1000 buccaneers, worth 500 000 resources.

Then you send them to prizes in order to get them killed w/o winning the prize.

Then you take your army and go to actually beat/win the prize and as a reward you get, for example, 20 juggs (worth 485 540 resources).


Is this right?


Then I go to finish off the prizes I used to get those buccaneers killed and I recieve smaller rewards? And repeat the whole process? Or?


Now some other questions, is there a difference if I get these 1000 buccaneers killed in prizes of levels, let's say 1 - 15 (due to low level of grapllin hook) or 3 - 25(grapllin hook level 20)?


I also understand prizes are the way how to get units I can't train yet.

But I've read some posts where ppl say the use their submarines, SotL or Juggs to increase "the bank", in other words they sacrifice these units.

I do not understand why. What are they hoping for? Aircraft carriers and nuclear submarines?


I'm sorry if this was already said or written somewhere, but as I said, I'm kinda confused right now.

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SwagOnEm
2 September, 2016, 9:22 AM UTC

Astaroth said:


I was searching for as much info about prizes as possible and the outcome is that I'm confused.


So basically, you train some number of units, let's say 1000 buccaneers, worth 500 000 resources.

Then you send them to prizes in order to get them killed w/o winning the prize.

Then you take your army and go to actually beat/win the prize and as a reward you get, for example, 20 juggs (worth 485 540 resources).


Is this right?


Then I go to finish off the prizes I used to get those buccaneers killed and I recieve smaller rewards? And repeat the whole process? Or?


Now some other questions, is there a difference if I get these 1000 buccaneers killed in prizes of levels, let's say 1 - 15 (due to low level of grapllin hook) or 3 - 25(grapllin hook level 20)?


I also understand prizes are the way how to get units I can't train yet.

But I've read some posts where ppl say the use their submarines, SotL or Juggs to increase "the bank", in other words they sacrifice these units.

I do not understand why. What are they hoping for? Aircraft carriers and nuclear submarines?


I'm sorry if this was already said or written somewhere, but as I said, I'm kinda confused right now.

I've asked under "suggestions" if devs could release more details, answer was a strict NO - "Go find out yourself" or smth.

I've recently joined an amazing BH that explained a lil to me, basically higher lvl does not use armada to get armada, as you are probably aware you can potentially build 4 types of units in parallel, but armada are the best and highest production time, so what you wanna do as a high lvl who can produce them is double up their production, cuz resources aren't the issue but time, so you end up training more armada, once via normal armada production and once the pirates/merc production which eventually will be converted through the "Prize" system.
SuPQQ
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Rollo
3 September, 2016, 8:20 AM UTC

Hi

I am currently increasing my bank, I send units to prizes without killing them.

I carefully check the remaining units in the prizes in order to leave only a very small amount of units on them.

My goal is to have 60 prizes ready to be killed, the levels are between 15 and 41.

I have currently 55 prizes with a (very very) green status, i.e. with only a very few units.

Sooner or later, I will (try to) cash my bank by killing all the prizes in a row.

My question :

Do I have to kill the prizes in ascending or descending order ?


Other tips interesting to know ? I have read from Blasphemy (other topic) that a good strategy is :

to weaken prizes and then hit the second highest prize.

Why the second highest and not the first ?

UTC +1:00
SwagOnEm
4 September, 2016, 7:55 PM UTC

didier.grandemange said:


Hi

I am currently increasing my bank, I send units to prizes without killing them.

I carefully check the remaining units in the prizes in order to leave only a very small amount of units on them.

My goal is to have 60 prizes ready to be killed, the levels are between 15 and 41.

I have currently 55 prizes with a (very very) green status, i.e. with only a very few units.

Sooner or later, I will (try to) cash my bank by killing all the prizes in a row.

My question :

Do I have to kill the prizes in ascending or descending order ?


Other tips interesting to know ? I have read from Blasphemy (other topic) that a good strategy is :

to weaken prizes and then hit the second highest prize.

Why the second highest and not the first ?

The highest prize is the "Quest" prize, it is programmed for some reason that it wont "cash out" your bank, but give you some weird prize which my 15 days in the game did not let me check what it relates to, I assume it has something to do with Quest level, don't expect it to make sense, BUT as I understood almost ANYTHING you get from prizes is deducted from your "Bank", -10% of your money as interest (the interest changes mildly, really vague, something about prize lvl), That's why you go ham on the highest lvl, get some stuff, then cash out on the 2nd highest, or lower if you don't have the 2nd. Why is it better to "cash out" on higher level prizes? every price has a cap to what units can he give and how much from them, naturally higher lvl prizes has a bigger cap - can cash out bigger (remember you don't just cash out natural money, its the money you've put in!!). It might even cash you out more then you've put in, then you'll be in minus. Now remember the interest, if you sacrifice 1m worth of units you will get only around 900k, why? have you heard of a free bank? that's why :).

Considering that, if you already have a fat bank, like you said you have - attack the highest level NOT QUEST (2nd highest etc.), the more you deposited the higher the probability you'll cash out, there are still some RNG factors in the algorithm tho so it might not cash you out, but fk you up and give you a "Small prize" which is deducted from your hardly produced resources juice! aka your bank balance (+10%'ish interest). from my small experience its not very common, the bigger the pot the more likely to cash-out.

Hey m8, I've got some answers from scrapping piece of info on top of another piece (None of that info came from mods/devs, they mumble alot but don't really say anything useful).

Some source : http://wiki.plarium.com/index.php?title=Prize_Tactics

Excel sheet from a parallel game (Plarium made pirates, but then decided that pirates might not be appealing to everyone, so they took all the code and used a different art and called it "Sparta", and few more)  that is VERY detailed and can be useful for you (neat picker with the details) : Excel Sheet taken from This fb group. If you follow this sheet you will be able to tell if your doing things right or wrong, it helps you calc wins vs loses.


Recently, they've changed the algorithm, but ppl say these methods still work, if you ask me I'd say that they are constantly changing the algo to see what's best, (for them ofc). Remember, their main goal is to make you lose without you noticing you've lost, hence you wont complain to them, but buy more. YOUR goal is to figure their algorithm and find the least destructive way for you to use the prizing system to your advantage. (which is pretty damn hard, considering they hold and can see the cards whilst you play in the blind zone and make guesses).


Regards, Avi.


SuPQQ
UTC +2:00
Rollo
5 September, 2016, 10:34 AM UTC

Many thanks for your reply. The Sparta-related spreadsheet file is impressive !


I don't understand the interest in the bank.

Now remember the interest, if you sacrifice 1m worth of units you will get only around 900k, why? have you heard of a free bank? that's why :).


aka your bank balance (+10%'ish interest).

When I lose units, they increase the bank.

Let's say I lose 1M (in bank units, i.e. sum of ressources), I will have only 900 k increase. OK.

So why a plus  " (+10%'ish interest) "  ?

UTC +1:00
FaZi
5 September, 2016, 5:22 PM UTC
Yes we calculate only 10% but many says it is more than 10%.
Th' rougher th' seven seas, th' smoother we sail. Ahoy! ahead ye coward
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SwagOnEm
7 September, 2016, 11:30 PM UTC

When I lose units, they increase the bank.

Let's say I lose 1M (in bank units, i.e. sum of ressources), I will have only 900 k increase. OK.

So why a plus  " (+10%'ish interest) "  ?


I meant to say -10% obviously, sorry for the confusion. 

according to the spartan spreadsheet and many other guys reportings (8%-12%) its a bit outdated and might've been changed.

Additional info~

As I understood in the past there wasn't small prizes, now there are. Are they fully deducted from your balance? the Community Manager said earlier in this post that they are "Somehow connected" to your balance, which implies they are not being fully deducted, Its only logical to assume so as well, since these tier 1 small prizes units would set you back greatly on the cash-out if they were being fully deducted from your balance, excessive testing with a lot of samples is needed to determine since prizes are less predictable then before, they've added more Randomness (Known in gaming as the term RNG-"random number generator") in the past - your bank is X amount - next prize you cash out, period., now, the bigger the bank the greater the chance to cash out, nothing guaranteed tho.


btw thx for your appreciation :).

SuPQQ
UTC +2:00
Rollo
8 September, 2016, 10:42 AM UTC

Thanks for your reply.

Killing prizes is usefull at low-middle level  for trading small units (pirates, mercenaries) for bigger units (fleet, armada), but imho when you do not have yet the discoveries.

But are prizes usefull when you have all the discoveries ?

Killing a 100+ prizes needs a lot of units, and unless you want to wait for months building mercenaries, you have to send armada.

So you destroy say 5.000 juggernauts expecting to receive 4.500 (- 10%) - no sense.

I understand prizes  also give XP, points for prizes events, headaches trying to understand , lot of fun, ..., but eventually is it woth sticking to prizes when you can build everything ?

Or maybe I have something wrong ?
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SwagOnEm
8 September, 2016, 5:33 PM UTC

didier.grandemange said:


Thanks for your reply.

Killing prizes is usefull at low-middle level  for trading small units (pirates, mercenaries) for bigger units (fleet, armada), but imho when you do not have yet the discoveries.

But are prizes usefull when you have all the discoveries ?

Killing a 100+ prizes needs a lot of units, and unless you want to wait for months building mercenaries, you have to send armada.

So you destroy say 5.000 juggernauts expecting to receive 4.500 (- 10%) - no sense.

I understand prizes  also give XP, points for prizes events, headaches trying to understand , lot of fun, ..., but eventually is it woth sticking to prizes when you can build everything ?

Or maybe I have something wrong ?

I was starting a long answer about the deception in the prizing system when I realized I was on the wrong.

1. Since the collateral rewards from clearing prizes actually adds up to a nice sum (Current event), Some times event stack too (exp, prizes, producing units), You might wanna stack units during the week and wait for a good event to pound on the prizes, then not only you potentially "convert" your unit.


2. I don't really think it takes month, it will take couple of weeks, still, I think the system is a bit too harsh on higher lvls, cuz if they clear each prize they get crappy stuff, even tho its high lvl, they need to weaken a couple of prizes then aim for the kill and the cash out for a better big prize chance (better chance, still not guarenteed), which is a thing that is counter intuitive, which makes them frustrated about the system (my lvl 90 friend's experiance). that being said, the time to produce elite units in the top tier of competitiveness is ridiculously slow for your needs (def persidio/bastion vs mass attacks, etc), hence the need to "convert", I didn't do the math but you can do it real quick, take the power of marauder vs the time to build and compare it to the jagg's stats for example and see for yourself.


3. Now that's where I'm a bit with mixed emotions, and I chose mixed emotions to decribe it for the right reason.

The system encourages you to play intuitively, but that is a complete emotional reward, when you see the 150 jaggs on the cash out display, it triggers some chemical reaction in your brain that will make you overcome anything in your way for the next hit. even logics :). so should I play logically? should I play emotionally? maby a balanced mix of them both! :).

SuPQQ
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Astaroth
9 September, 2016, 9:14 AM UTC

Agree with Swagonem, to attack prizes, you need (or want) units with best price/training time ratio (the bigger the number, better it is). That way you can spend resources as fast as possible, increase bank faster and get more, better units faster.


Marauder is 300 resources in 3 minutes, 100 per minute.

Buccaneer is 500 resources in 9 minutes, 55,55 per minute.

Bombardier is 2 166 resources in 36 minutes, 60,16 per minute.

Brigantine is 7 823 rousources in 108 minutes, 72,44 per minute.


The only better unit (afaik) is Marine with cost of 108,33 resources per minute.


Jugg is 96,34 resources per minute. If you invest pearls to decrease their training time, let's say by 11%, the number changes into 108,24.

Now you can say that it basically takes same time to train 1 Jugg as traning XXX number of marines that you will exchange for 1 Jugg via prizes.

In fact, making a Jugg now is faster. Because of the 8% - 12% interest you actually need more Marines.


Ofc it is not guaranteed that you will get 1 Jugg, this is just a math in theory.


I hope I just didn't go full stupid and didn't do some very bacis mistake

UTC +2:00
SwagOnEm
9 September, 2016, 1:06 PM UTC

Astaroth said:


Agree with Swagonem, to attack prizes, you need (or want) units with best price/training time ratio (the bigger the number, better it is). That way you can spend resources as fast as possible, increase bank faster and get more, better units faster.


Marauder is 300 resources in 3 minutes, 100 per minute.

Buccaneer is 500 resources in 9 minutes, 55,55 per minute.

Bombardier is 2 166 resources in 36 minutes, 60,16 per minute.

Brigantine is 7 823 rousources in 108 minutes, 72,44 per minute.


The only better unit (afaik) is Marine with cost of 108,33 resources per minute.


Jugg is 96,34 resources per minute. If you invest pearls to decrease their training time, let's say by 11%, the number changes into 108,24.

Now you can say that it basically takes same time to train 1 Jugg as traning XXX number of marines that you will exchange for 1 Jugg via prizes.

In fact, making a Jugg now is faster. Because of the 8% - 12% interest you actually need more Marines.


Ofc it is not guaranteed that you will get 1 Jugg, this is just a math in theory.


I hope I just didn't go full stupid and didn't do some very bacis mistake

That's pretty good basic calcs, there are more things that needs to be taken  into account tho, your other needs, (fighting and deffing), so alot more comparisons are need to be made, like off power vs training time, same for def, travel time vs power for attacks (you dont wanna send marauders, even tho they are more efficient power wise then jaggs, they are too slow etc),


Your comparison of making jaggs to making marines tho doesnt make much sense, unless you mean "winning jagg" instead of producing one, and yet, you could put pearls in marines too. or use them for raids, they'r pretty efficient.
SuPQQ
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Valentinian
10 October, 2016, 12:39 PM UTC

Salty seadog as I are, I unwittingly benefited from this system, thou didn't understand it at the time.  As a wee scout, about lvl. 30 or so, I was intent on capturing a lvl.20 prize to impress me brothers, and was willing to lose whatever it took to get it. Somewhere along the way I took on prizes of a boatload of Junks, Turtles, Dragon Ladies, and Zzzzzzz Warriers. Problem being, these be very thirsty units, and I had neigh the rum production to maintain them at me isle. So, I aimed the lot of them in a single wave against a strong prize, and in the follow-up wave won a considerable number of Armada and Fleet units (submarines, etc.). 


Now weeks later with the wind in me sails, me strategy is chang'd, aiming now for a lvl 24 prize (so I can try me hand at adventures). Attacking in waves at these higher level prizes makes sense, if only to protect me hard-won Armada and Fleet units.


Recognizing what prizes are best conquered in waves, and what to send in the first wave be a matter of experience. Losing yea numbers and firepower is a concern, and recognizing that tipping point where yea forces are spent? So, I make a campaign out of it, not going too high too fast. First goal to take down a lvl.21 prize. Then, regroup. Next begin anew for a lvl. 22 prize, and so on. Also, time me campaigns to go with Tournaments where I can can win good prizes that more than make-up for losses in Bonnies, etc.  


Hope this scribble help yea seapups see the concept, and not get twisted into a monkey knot trying to understand banking numbers. 

UTC +7:00
Raventor
26 October, 2016, 6:47 AM UTC
FaZi said:

As far as i know, it's not about on which level you get the prize, it's about empty runs you had in between these two payouts.


Do a lil calculation by your own and check how many prize were remaining when you get lvl 94 payout and was that in + or -. than how many you spent more till the payout of lvl 87, if payout is greater than your expense you have to pay before the next payout

Good Point FaZ  i
“In the midst of chaos, there is also opportunity” Sun Tsu
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