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Arena improvement ideas

Arena improvement ideas

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18 окт. 2021, 23:4218.10.21
08.06.20
14

Arena improvement ideas

Dead horse beating alert! Yes, we all know Arena is incredibly frustrating and it's even more frustrating that Plarium's attempts to fix it are half-witted and shortsighted. For one, shoving fake accts in with easy defense teams for a month or two and then removing them shows that they have no good plans for fixing Arena progression and are applying band-aids to temporarily slow the negative reviews on the play store and other areas. The idea of using total player power to matchup players is poorly thought out as well, but I'll get into that in detail later.

Whenever Arena problems are brought up in dicussion the answer is always "SPEED SPEED SPEED", which is the correct answer, but not knowing your opponents speed makes life really difficult. For this reason, speed should be a major factor in calculating the power of a champion, which then leads to the team being higher in power so you can see that in the matchup lists and furthermore, it'll make their player power higher especially if they have a lot of really good champions geared up heavy on speed. I don't know how much speed is factored in power currently, if at all, but it should be and from the benefits it brings, it should be a heavy factor in power.

This brings us to matchups. Whatever method they're using for matching up players in arena is not working. For bronze and silver, matching up players by total player power simply makes it extra difficult for people to progress since everyone on both sides is stuck where they are trying to pick away at a few matches, winning some and losing some. The matchups on all levels should be completely random for all players within that tier so that a person progressing can find matchups they can win and move forward until naturally they hit the wall where they can go no further until they upgrade or work on new methods instead of synthetically being thrown against players that are all in the same boat. At the very least, any range of power that's used to match players should be broadened heavily, but I still argue it doesn't need synthetic controls.

Lastly, I think something that's long overdue is to make more tiers per medal, 1 or 2 at the least. On top of that, add some more room in Platinum or another tier of Platinum so that those endgame players aren't spilling into lower levels and making life frustrating for newbies and midgamers. The extra tiers could get more medals per win helping us work on that medal level of the great hall and progressing further to get into higher tiers, rinse, and repeat.

That being said, whoever came up with the medals required per level is either bad at math or a sadistic freak. Going from level 3 needing 300 bronze to level 4 needing 400 SILVER is an elegant looking progression, but if you do the conversion, that makes it essentially go from 300 bronze to 800 bronze, or obviously in silver since it requires silver, 150 silver to 400 silver. This is all possible, but it gets so much worse when you go from 600 silvers to 700 golds. That comes out to 300 gold jumping to 700 gold. Multiply all that by 24 nodes in the hall and you've obviously got a lot of work on your hands. Giving people a better/less frustrating way to grind for that great hall will hopefully make this less of an act of torture.

tl;dr: speed should calculate into power and heavily. matchups should be naturally, completely random per tier. 1 or 2 more tiers per medal level for better medal farming to benefit great hall progression and player progresison overall.

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19 окт. 2021, 00:3619.10.21
27.03.19
3

I am not sure what you game designers are doing to your game but the arena just keeps getting worse and worse. The more I play this game the more it rips me off. I do not know how you will ever fix the mess you have created but it is such a shame that such a good game is so messed up. I am not going to play until I die to get anywhere and I will not spend another dime until I see it repaired bet on that.

19 окт. 2021, 02:2519.10.21
19.12.19
5970

Lol. Arena is broken to easy mode and people still struggle... smh.  Find a new game if u can't beat the bots :)

19 окт. 2021, 03:4119.10.21
08.06.20
14
Trips

Lol. Arena is broken to easy mode and people still struggle... smh.  Find a new game if u can't beat the bots :)

bots are gone buddy. only thing I come across lately is players that put one champ in their defense for whatever reason. maybe they're just done with great hall and don't care anymore.

19 окт. 2021, 10:5619.10.21
30.09.20
45

i think bots still appear - at least: every once in a while i recieve a list of opponents way easier than usually. 

I agree that arena is not working completely perfect, but i remember plarium once said that its intented to be hard. If u wanna complain,,, i would rather be complaining about the arena missions, since they doesnt match other missions

19 окт. 2021, 12:3119.10.21
15.01.21
1118

I still get some bots (they may be real players, if under level 75 and in g4 i just attack them as long as they do not have hedge/tormin and in my head i class them as 'bots')

But it has got a bit harder now, especially around reset.

I agree there should be no synthetic matching other than how many games you win or lose (points)

Personally i dont care about power, i can generally read a team (who will be a speed champ and low power etc) .... but personally have no objections to a different power calculation

Agree there should be more tiers.

19 окт. 2021, 14:1119.10.21
25.06.20
6185
donmuerte-gm

bots are gone buddy. only thing I come across lately is players that put one champ in their defense for whatever reason. maybe they're just done with great hall and don't care anymore.

Definitely not gone. I get a bot page once every ~5 refreshes.

19 окт. 2021, 14:2819.10.21
19.12.19
5970
kramaswamy.kr

Definitely not gone. I get a bot page once every ~5 refreshes.

Seems about right to me.  

1.  Bots still exist

2.  Power calculation is great as it its, if you are intelligent enough to use it correctly

3. Speed is a purposely unknown variable, what people really want is the speed of each champ listed in the arena page... lol, not gonna happen

4. Matchups will never be perfect, that is why bots are here to stay

5. GH is not supposed to be easy to finish (if ever, I am at 2 years not close to finished) but it is simple to improve it with... see #1 and #4 

OracleCommunity Manager
19 окт. 2021, 15:0619.10.21
02.03.21
571

Hi! Thank you for your active attitude towards the game!

One thing to clarify first is that we never really had weak (or strong for that matter) artificial accounts for the Arena. The reason some relatively weaker accounts appear in the game time after time has to do only with the intrinsics of players distribution on the server. Those accounts never really disappear into nowhere, instead, they progress as well as other players do and join the fray.

The team power calculation is not perhaps the ultimate way to stack opponents against each other, but this is a handy approach to find an approximately similar player to fight against. With an as complex battle system as is now in the game, it is incredibly difficult to produce matchups based on a neat group of factors. But since team power also takes account of Champions' stats, the speed also plays into the calculation.

Please, keep in mind that Arena as a piece of PvP gameplay is supposed to be challenging. You're not supposed just to steadily progress there only through the general development of your account. If a player can't beat their fellows of relatively the same level, defence team power and player power, it means that something should be changed in their offensive or defensive strategies. Unlike PvE areas, where you can get stronger simply by gradually getting better equipment and widening your pool of Champions, in the Arena, you have to deal with a competitive environment of people whose aim is exactly the same as yours and they would not give quarter to anyone.

The point to start with is to analyse your pool of available Champions and approaches your offence team uses. So feel free to share your Champion collection and ask for advice specific to your account. There are a lot of players ready, willing, and able to help you here.

19 окт. 2021, 15:2219.10.21
16.11.20
1058

I've def seen a increase in difficulty in arena the last few weeks. Also still get the occasional bot page, and free win defense teams.

I got arbiter during the bot rush, so the difficulty doesn't bother me anymore as I can at least compete now in g4 and stay there.

On reset morning though I did have to win a single match to get to g4!!!! This is unacceptable! 

19 окт. 2021, 16:5019.10.21
19 окт. 2021, 16:51(отредактировано)
01.08.21
129

It'd be nice if we could at least see the gear equipped on enemy champions (I appreciate that giving out full stats would make the arena too easy, so I'm not saying we should know absolutely everything).  I just want to be able to make better-informed decisions about which ostensbly less-powerful teams are actually going to kick the **** out of me by taking 15 consecutive turns at the start of the match.

19 окт. 2021, 16:5919.10.21
19.12.19
5970
devlin71

It'd be nice if we could at least see the gear equipped on enemy champions (I appreciate that giving out full stats would make the arena too easy, so I'm not saying we should know absolutely everything).  I just want to be able to make better-informed decisions about which ostensbly less-powerful teams are actually going to kick the **** out of me by taking 15 consecutive turns at the start of the match.

The attacker already has ALL the advantages over the defender.   If anything (and I certainly don't want to see this as it would make Tag even more difficult/ time consuming) the defense should be given additional advantages instead of providing more aid to the attacker.

19 окт. 2021, 19:1519.10.21
15.01.21
1118
devlin71

It'd be nice if we could at least see the gear equipped on enemy champions (I appreciate that giving out full stats would make the arena too easy, so I'm not saying we should know absolutely everything).  I just want to be able to make better-informed decisions about which ostensbly less-powerful teams are actually going to kick the **** out of me by taking 15 consecutive turns at the start of the match.

Sorry, not a fan of this idea at all, i tend to think defense is much harder than offence.

My defence win rate is about 40% to 50% tops, my offence win rate is 98%.

You can make very good guesses already based on the opponents level?. For example someone who is level 57 but has arbiter lead is probably still going to be slow as they most likely not done the dragon grinding.


19 окт. 2021, 19:1519.10.21
19 окт. 2021, 19:41(отредактировано)
08.06.20
14

I'm definitely not suggesting in anyway that we should see the actual speed of an opposing team, but teams with 80k power vs 140k that wipe you out before you get a turn in shouldn't be a thing.

Also, I completely understand that Arena PVP is supposed to be challenging and GH can take a really long time to level, but when you have people with similar teams on ALL levels of Arena hitting each other and going nowhere, something is wrong. It's why you have 300k power teams in Bronze fighting each other. Great Hall can still be a grind if you make some of these changes. If you're not good enough for Gold and are stuck in Silver, you can't even get gold level GH improvements until you fix your team or grind out a bunch more medals in silver.

Thanks for the response Oracle, but it's disappointing it's just another stubborn Plarium statement saying, "working as intended" or what boomers might call a SNAFU. At least you agree on the power matchup thing being less than ideal.

P.S. I can't say I ever see bot "pages", but I will get an occasional single Arbiter, Siphi, or Duchess from an opponent or two on a page. I even did the thing people claim that putting a single champ in your defense makes your matchups easier, but all that did was drop me from Gold 4 to Gold 1 in a couple days and I still have the same difficulty of teams to fight. LOL

19 окт. 2021, 19:1619.10.21
08.06.20
14
Trevor Wilson

Sorry, not a fan of this idea at all, i tend to think defense is much harder than offence.

My defence win rate is about 40% to 50% tops, my offence win rate is 98%.

You can make very good guesses already based on the opponents level?. For example someone who is level 57 but has arbiter lead is probably still going to be slow as they most likely not done the dragon grinding.


Yeah. Me either. It would be good to be able to look at your clan's gear for ideas, but definitely not opponents.

19 окт. 2021, 19:2019.10.21
15.01.21
1118
donmuerte-gm

I'm definitely not suggesting in anyway that we should see the actual speed of an opposing team, but teams with 80k power vs 140k that wipe you out before you get a turn in shouldn't be a thing.

Also, I completely understand that Arena PVP is supposed to be challenging and GH can take a really long time to level, but when you have people with similar teams on ALL levels of Arena hitting each other and going nowhere, something is wrong. It's why you have 300k power teams in Bronze fighting each other. Great Hall can still be a grind if you make some of these changes. If you're not good enough for Gold and are stuck in Silver, you can't even get gold level GH improvements until you fix your team or grind out a bunch more medals in silver.

Thanks for the response Oracle, but it's disappointing it's just another stubborn Plarium statement saying, "working as intended" or what boomers might call a SNAFU. At least you agree on the power matchup thing being less than ideal.

P.S. I can't say I ever see bot "pages", but I will get an occasional single Arbiter, Siphi, or Duchess from an opponent or two on a page. I even did the thing people claim that putting a single champ in your defense makes your matchups easier, but all that did was drop me from Gold 4 to Gold 1 in a couple days and I still have the same difficulty of teams to fight. LOL

I seem to be posting a lot on this, and im a relative newbie myself - i dont know if the bots are 'bots' or not, i just see sometimes a page full of opponents from level 55 to 75, and they are easy opponents to kill.

I really dont mind if they change the calculation of player power, but do people really find it hard to work out how an opponents team is going to act?...  and why does player power matter?

If fighting another speed nuke team with your own then the fastest will win, take your chances (barring swift parry procs)

If fighting a go second team, well - power can indicate a high res team, or high crit damage so its sort of doing its job.

I just dont get why player power is considered important to people when picking opponents?. 

19 окт. 2021, 19:2119.10.21
15.01.21
1118
Oracle

Hi! Thank you for your active attitude towards the game!

One thing to clarify first is that we never really had weak (or strong for that matter) artificial accounts for the Arena. The reason some relatively weaker accounts appear in the game time after time has to do only with the intrinsics of players distribution on the server. Those accounts never really disappear into nowhere, instead, they progress as well as other players do and join the fray.

The team power calculation is not perhaps the ultimate way to stack opponents against each other, but this is a handy approach to find an approximately similar player to fight against. With an as complex battle system as is now in the game, it is incredibly difficult to produce matchups based on a neat group of factors. But since team power also takes account of Champions' stats, the speed also plays into the calculation.

Please, keep in mind that Arena as a piece of PvP gameplay is supposed to be challenging. You're not supposed just to steadily progress there only through the general development of your account. If a player can't beat their fellows of relatively the same level, defence team power and player power, it means that something should be changed in their offensive or defensive strategies. Unlike PvE areas, where you can get stronger simply by gradually getting better equipment and widening your pool of Champions, in the Arena, you have to deal with a competitive environment of people whose aim is exactly the same as yours and they would not give quarter to anyone.

The point to start with is to analyse your pool of available Champions and approaches your offence team uses. So feel free to share your Champion collection and ask for advice specific to your account. There are a lot of players ready, willing, and able to help you here.

Why on earth match people by anything other than arena points?

The idea of synthetically matching people by player power or account power or team power is just a bad one.

19 окт. 2021, 19:3519.10.21
08.06.20
14
Trevor Wilson

Why on earth match people by anything other than arena points?

The idea of synthetically matching people by player power or account power or team power is just a bad one.

Agreed.

19 окт. 2021, 20:1219.10.21
08.06.20
14

Regarding speed and champ power, I think it would help to demonstrate the "power" of speed by comparing it to DPS on MMOs and such. The more hits you can get in per second (in our case turn), even if they're weak hits, increases your damage greatly. Factor in buffs and debuffs dropping faster than your opponent and it becomes an even greater game changer.

19 окт. 2021, 20:3019.10.21
19 окт. 2021, 20:32(отредактировано)
08.06.20
14

In addition regarding the player power in Bronze and Silver thing. What you're doing is punishing players, possibly newer ones, for keeping rares and working on them for their teams or setting up good faction wars teams. It's a collection game that wants you to not collect if you have any desire of progressing in PVP. Logic seems to a bit off there.

I had a bunch I was keeping to mess around with at times in my vault and when I finally read that patch note talking about player power I had to start The Big Purge of my account.

19 окт. 2021, 20:3519.10.21
08.06.20
14
Trevor Wilson

I seem to be posting a lot on this, and im a relative newbie myself - i dont know if the bots are 'bots' or not, i just see sometimes a page full of opponents from level 55 to 75, and they are easy opponents to kill.

I really dont mind if they change the calculation of player power, but do people really find it hard to work out how an opponents team is going to act?...  and why does player power matter?

If fighting another speed nuke team with your own then the fastest will win, take your chances (barring swift parry procs)

If fighting a go second team, well - power can indicate a high res team, or high crit damage so its sort of doing its job.

I just dont get why player power is considered important to people when picking opponents?. 

Player power isn't my sole indicator of who to fight. It's primarily team makeup, but the player power helps me sometimes understand what I'm getting into. Like a two man team with Arbiter and Krisk at 100k+ I'll probably avoid.