All about infests

198 Replies
Prince Orcus DiVargo
31 May, 2015, 6:23 PM UTC

My infests have been acting so weird. I am on level 47 infests but I used to be able to force payouts at will. Now,

  1. Even with my bank 1-2% past the threshold for the particular level, I don't get paybacks like the old days. I had my bank at over 4 million and I one-shotted a level 36 infest, which is right for the bank. However, I got no payout but a bank at like 5 million, so when I took out a level 33, I got a decent payout but a whole lotta resources. Sometimes this happens across multiple infests so I end up with a bank several million greater than the infest I am targeting.
  2. Once I had my bank at like 7.1 million so I was going to kill a level 42 defensive infest. I sent 2 exterminators to a level 45 offensive infestation to load before the kill (they were supposed to die). However, I triggered a payout on the level 45 of like 370 BCs and a few interceptors. My bank was on negative 3 million.

 

Number 2: I checked with Biohazard and he said that the bank resets to zero if it goes overly negative, around the time of the daily server reset. Does anyone know how long the bank takes to reset, if at all? 

JR.
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BiohazarD
Moderator
31 May, 2015, 7:39 PM UTC

fakeasnever said:

@BiohazarD (31 May, 2015, 9:51 AM UTC):
Could it be that A-mutants include their Antigen cost as their only resource increase?

It would make sense... At most 200, for air it doesn't make a huge difference.

That's possible, it's a small enough difference that it would be difficult to notice, and I don't make it a habit of using all A units to load level 100 infests :P  I tested them once when I was on lower levels, they didn't yield any particularly impressive results, so I haven't tried again. 

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harrys
11 June, 2015, 8:14 AM UTC

After the Update, i´m running over 30 invests with very different levels (20-100) and i got absolute nothing as reward. No troupes, resis, mods.

Whats wrong here? All my parameters shows me, i should win (bank is full, get enough XP´s since last payout, reinvest enough resis since last payout).

Is there something new, i miss?

 

greetings

Harry

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bcd109
14 August, 2015, 4:38 AM UTC

Okay, so I think I follow this thread. Now, Biohazard, I have to ask you:


With the new infest system, you said in another thread that the payout threshold has been increased by 50%. Is that 50% higher than the 80-90% max resource loading value, or 50% higher than the full max loading value?


For instance, at level 100, the old system was:

Max Load: 148,913,800

80% Value: 119,131,040

90% Value: 134,022,420

So under the old system, you would try to trigger your level 100 site (or 95-100 site, if you got that random "no payout" reward), you would need to shoot for a bank of 119-134 million. Correct? (Although my records indicate payouts typically paid out between 110-128 million, so this should still result in a net loss).



Now, under the new system, are you saying this?

Max Load: 223,370,700

80% Value: 178,696,560

90% Value: 201,033,630


Assuming payouts are still the same, that would imply that I would have to make up the difference by hitting yellowed sites and get 68-73 million after I got my payout? Is this correct?
UTC +4:00
BiohazarD
Moderator
14 August, 2015, 5:47 PM UTC
bcd109 said:

Okay, so I think I follow this thread. Now, Biohazard, I have to ask you:


With the new infest system, you said in another thread that the payout threshold has been increased by 50%. Is that 50% higher than the 80-90% max resource loading value, or 50% higher than the full max loading value?


For instance, at level 100, the old system was:

Max Load: 148,913,800

80% Value: 119,131,040

90% Value: 134,022,420

So under the old system, you would try to trigger your level 100 site (or 95-100 site, if you got that random "no payout" reward), you would need to shoot for a bank of 119-134 million. Correct? (Although my records indicate payouts typically paid out between 110-128 million, so this should still result in a net loss).



Now, under the new system, are you saying this?

Max Load: 223,370,700

80% Value: 178,696,560

90% Value: 201,033,630


Assuming payouts are still the same, that would imply that I would have to make up the difference by hitting yellowed sites and get 68-73 million after I got my payout? Is this correct?
Yeah that's close.  It seems you have to load about 150% of the total bank value before you will get a payout (this is an approximation, sometimes it takes more, because there is some randomness built into the system).  So for a level 100 you'd need to load about 190 mil.  Then it will pay out 120-130 mil, and you get the rest from the yellow barred infests. 
UTC +0:00
bcd109
15 August, 2015, 4:35 PM UTC

BiohazarD said:

bcd109 said:

Okay, so I think I follow this thread. Now, Biohazard, I have to ask you:


With the new infest system, you said in another thread that the payout threshold has been increased by 50%. Is that 50% higher than the 80-90% max resource loading value, or 50% higher than the full max loading value?


For instance, at level 100, the old system was:

Max Load: 148,913,800

80% Value: 119,131,040

90% Value: 134,022,420

So under the old system, you would try to trigger your level 100 site (or 95-100 site, if you got that random "no payout" reward), you would need to shoot for a bank of 119-134 million. Correct? (Although my records indicate payouts typically paid out between 110-128 million, so this should still result in a net loss).



Now, under the new system, are you saying this?

Max Load: 223,370,700

80% Value: 178,696,560

90% Value: 201,033,630


Assuming payouts are still the same, that would imply that I would have to make up the difference by hitting yellowed sites and get 68-73 million after I got my payout? Is this correct?
Yeah that's close.  It seems you have to load about 150% of the total bank value before you will get a payout (this is an approximation, sometimes it takes more, because there is some randomness built into the system).  So for a level 100 you'd need to load about 190 mil.  Then it will pay out 120-130 mil, and you get the rest from the yellow barred infests. 


Thank you, Biohazard.


So the new formula is:  97.5 * n ^ 3.143 , correct?


Do you have the formula for Soldiers/Sparta, by chance? (Since their infests go to level 125)
UTC +4:00
BiohazarD
Moderator
15 August, 2015, 7:14 PM UTC
bcd109 said:

BiohazarD said:

bcd109 said:

Okay, so I think I follow this thread. Now, Biohazard, I have to ask you:


With the new infest system, you said in another thread that the payout threshold has been increased by 50%. Is that 50% higher than the 80-90% max resource loading value, or 50% higher than the full max loading value?


For instance, at level 100, the old system was:

Max Load: 148,913,800

80% Value: 119,131,040

90% Value: 134,022,420

So under the old system, you would try to trigger your level 100 site (or 95-100 site, if you got that random "no payout" reward), you would need to shoot for a bank of 119-134 million. Correct? (Although my records indicate payouts typically paid out between 110-128 million, so this should still result in a net loss).



Now, under the new system, are you saying this?

Max Load: 223,370,700

80% Value: 178,696,560

90% Value: 201,033,630


Assuming payouts are still the same, that would imply that I would have to make up the difference by hitting yellowed sites and get 68-73 million after I got my payout? Is this correct?
Yeah that's close.  It seems you have to load about 150% of the total bank value before you will get a payout (this is an approximation, sometimes it takes more, because there is some randomness built into the system).  So for a level 100 you'd need to load about 190 mil.  Then it will pay out 120-130 mil, and you get the rest from the yellow barred infests. 


Thank you, Biohazard.


So the new formula is:  97.5 * n ^ 3.143 , correct?


Do you have the formula for Soldiers/Sparta, by chance? (Since their infests go to level 125)
Yeah.  I haven't played those games much so I'm not sure, but if the payout value for a 125 is the same as a 100 here then it would probably be 97.5*n^2.998.  That's just a guess though, assuming they wanted the difficulty progression to be the same as you go up levels. 
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bcd109
15 August, 2015, 7:40 PM UTC

BiohazarD said:


Yeah.  I haven't played those games much so I'm not sure, but if the payout value for a 125 is the same as a 100 here then it would probably be 97.5*n^2.998.  That's just a guess though, assuming they wanted the difficulty progression to be the same as you go up levels. 

Awesome! Looking at my data, that looks about right.


Now, just so I don't end up doing anything (or sounding) stupid, I want to load my bank to 80-90% of that value before I trigger my level 100 site, correct?
UTC +4:00
BiohazarD
Moderator
15 August, 2015, 8:55 PM UTC
bcd109 said:

BiohazarD said:


Yeah.  I haven't played those games much so I'm not sure, but if the payout value for a 125 is the same as a 100 here then it would probably be 97.5*n^2.998.  That's just a guess though, assuming they wanted the difficulty progression to be the same as you go up levels. 

Awesome! Looking at my data, that looks about right.


Now, just so I don't end up doing anything (or sounding) stupid, I want to load my bank to 80-90% of that value before I trigger my level 100 site, correct?
No now you have to load the full value.  Your profit comes from killing the yellow barred ones, not from the main payout being more than you had loaded. 
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bcd109
15 August, 2015, 9:02 PM UTC

BiohazarD said:

bcd109 said:

Now, just so I don't end up doing anything (or sounding) stupid, I want to load my bank to 80-90% of that value before I trigger my level 100 site, correct?
No now you have to load the full value.  Your profit comes from killing the yellow barred ones, not from the main payout being more than you had loaded. 

Interesting.


So under the old system, I would have had to have loaded 126 million into the bank, and my profit would have come from occasionally getting payouts that paid more than 126 million?

UTC +4:00
BiohazarD
Moderator
15 August, 2015, 11:13 PM UTC
bcd109 said:

BiohazarD said:

bcd109 said:

Now, just so I don't end up doing anything (or sounding) stupid, I want to load my bank to 80-90% of that value before I trigger my level 100 site, correct?
No now you have to load the full value.  Your profit comes from killing the yellow barred ones, not from the main payout being more than you had loaded. 

Interesting.


So under the old system, I would have had to have loaded 126 million into the bank, and my profit would have come from occasionally getting payouts that paid more than 126 million?

No you would have loaded 110-115mil, then gotten a payout of about 126 mil (120-130) and the difference would be your profit. 
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bcd109
16 August, 2015, 12:25 AM UTC

Okay. Now I'm confused again. So 110 million is 87% of that 126 million value (65*n^3.143, n=100).


Under the new system, the payout threshold increases by 50%, so the new value (97.5*n^3.143, n=100) is 188 million.


And you're saying the threshold is now 100% of that value, and not 85-90% (165-170 million) as before?


If the bank increased by 50%, why wouldn't the new threshold also be 85-90% of the increased bank?


In other words, are you sure we don't want to load up the bank to 165-170 million, instead of 180 million?


Sorry if I sound dense. I'm probably just overthinking things.
UTC +4:00
BiohazarD
Moderator
16 August, 2015, 1:41 AM UTC
bcd109 said:

Okay. Now I'm confused again. So 110 million is 87% of that 126 million value (65*n^3.143, n=100).


Under the new system, the payout threshold increases by 50%, so the new value (97.5*n^3.143, n=100) is 188 million.


And you're saying the threshold is now 100% of that value, and not 85-90% (165-170 million) as before?


If the bank increased by 50%, why wouldn't the new threshold also be 85-90% of the increased bank?


In other words, are you sure we don't want to load up the bank to 165-170 million, instead of 180 million?


Sorry if I sound dense. I'm probably just overthinking things.
It didn't increase by 50%, it increased to 150% of the payout value.  So it was like a 170% increase from what you needed to load before. 
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bcd109
16 August, 2015, 1:57 AM UTC
BiohazarD said:

It didn't increase by 50%, it increased to 150% of the payout value.  So it was like a 170% increase from what you needed to load before. 
Ah! Okay, gotcha. So the sweet spot is 189 million. Then finish off the yellow sites. Then wait until reset (of the day?) before doing the next series?
UTC +4:00
BiohazarD
Moderator
16 August, 2015, 8:06 AM UTC
bcd109 said:
BiohazarD said:

It didn't increase by 50%, it increased to 150% of the payout value.  So it was like a 170% increase from what you needed to load before. 
Ah! Okay, gotcha. So the sweet spot is 189 million. Then finish off the yellow sites. Then wait until reset (of the day?) before doing the next series?
I usually do one set each infest tournament, they seem to get messed up if you do them too often.  I'll yellowbar all 24 of them, getting several payouts along the way so I don't get too over banked, do the main payout, then kill everything else.  If you've done them properly (down to 5% strength or less) you make a good profit off it. 
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bcd109
16 August, 2015, 9:13 PM UTC

BiohazarD said:


I usually do one set each infest tournament, they seem to get messed up if you do them too often.  I'll yellowbar all 24 of them, getting several payouts along the way so I don't get too over banked, do the main payout, then kill everything else.  If you've done them properly (down to 5% strength or less) you make a good profit off it. 

Hehe, I could talk about infests all day long!


So you don't get hit with the "tax" if you're below your threshold for payout? Do you know how much that tax on your bank happens to be?
UTC +4:00
BiohazarD
Moderator
17 August, 2015, 5:57 PM UTC
bcd109 said:

BiohazarD said:


I usually do one set each infest tournament, they seem to get messed up if you do them too often.  I'll yellowbar all 24 of them, getting several payouts along the way so I don't get too over banked, do the main payout, then kill everything else.  If you've done them properly (down to 5% strength or less) you make a good profit off it. 

Hehe, I could talk about infests all day long!


So you don't get hit with the "tax" if you're below your threshold for payout? Do you know how much that tax on your bank happens to be?
I believe it's around 2-3%.  So if you do them properly the profit is a lot more than the tax. 
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bcd109
20 August, 2015, 3:25 AM UTC

Nice. I'm testing this out on the old system first (Pirates, Soldiers), before I go into the big leagues like TD (or Sparta).


So far, I'm noticing a few trends. You said if your bank goes negative, wait until reset. Does that imply daily reset, or weekly reset?


Also, would you recommend quitting for the day/week as soon as you get a big payout? Or does it only matter if you make a profit? (For instance, I messed up and triggered a payout before I thought I would, so I only got a level 94 payout instead, so I threw it back in, and now I'm not getting payouts until around 125 million banked instead of 116-119 like I was calculating)


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Goon NoodLes
13 September, 2015, 6:32 PM UTC
thanks for the re-direct. isn't the old infest system tables correct for tdreborn.
John Cartwright
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BiohazarD
Moderator
14 September, 2015, 5:12 PM UTC
Goon NoodLes said:

thanks for the re-direct. isn't the old infest system tables correct for tdreborn.
Yes I believe reborn still operates on the old infest system. 
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