points in challenges

12 Replies
birdybyebye
13 January, 2017, 1:20 AM UTC
Trying to figure out what formula is used to award points in a challenge, If you raid an opponents castle, even though you actually win the battle if he defended and wasn't wiped out he may win on points how is that figured?  Birdyjerrie
birdy
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FAILO
13 January, 2017, 3:33 AM UTC
birdybyebye said:

Trying to figure out what formula is used to award points in a challenge, If you raid an opponents castle, even though you actually win the battle if he defended and wasn't wiped out he may win on points how is that figured?  Birdyjerrie
PVP points are mostly decided on how many units you destroyed. 
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RandomDrop
13 January, 2017, 5:30 AM UTC

It isdetermined by the value of the troops that are killed on each side. Here is an older chart/conversation I found when trying to figure this out.


http://forum.plarium.com/kabam/en/stormfall-age-of-war/game-discussion/topics/league-quest---train-units----individual-unit-point-values/

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Alina Bright
Community Manager
13 January, 2017, 12:10 PM UTC
Thank you for sharing this information
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birdybyebye
14 January, 2017, 9:09 PM UTC
thank you randomdrop
birdy
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toggit
31 January, 2017, 7:39 PM UTC

Wars and Challenge combat is based on power points

It is much easier to win by defending
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Alina Bright
Community Manager
1 February, 2017, 10:19 AM UTC

toggit said:


Wars and Challenge combat is based on power points

It is much easier to win by defending

Would you mind sharing your experience in more detail, Lord Toggit? 

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Ryu
1 February, 2017, 6:36 PM UTC
The defender is bound to destroy more power than the offender does, even when the raid is successful. And if you send big offense during challenge/war, you accept the risk of none of your braves coming back.
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toggit
1 February, 2017, 6:59 PM UTC

Eugenia Misura said:


toggit said:


Wars and Challenge combat is based on power points

It is much easier to win by defending

Would you mind sharing your experience in more detail, Lord Toggit? 

Using Power Points for Challenge is an unfair system


One Dragon is worth 42 points, but one Griffin is worth less than 15

Our recent tale of woe .......

We lost a friendly challenge because our gung-ho members sent too many attacks, which gave an insane amount of defensive points away

Our 17k attack points gave away 29k defense points



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Alina Bright
Community Manager
2 February, 2017, 9:25 AM UTC
Thank you, Lord Toggit!
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djmoody
10 February, 2017, 2:30 PM UTC

Eugenia Misura said:


toggit said:


Wars and Challenge combat is based on power points

It is much easier to win by defending

Would you mind sharing your experience in more detail, Lord Toggit? 

Just to expand on this so we know you understood, because that response is very short and the issues are reasonably complex.

The reason challenges and wars are completely biased to defending is down to:

- the bonuses that defensive units get (200%+ in a really nice castle, or 25% in a beacon)

- that the PvP points for defensive units are calculated from the average of the defensive power stats

______________________________________________________________________________


Back to school for a minute. 

The PvP points are linked to the power of the units, with 40 power = to 1 PvP points. This makes a pikeman 1 PvP point. The pikeman is the base unit of PvP.

This is easy to understand for offence units which have just 1 offence stat. For defence units they have 4 stats. The PvP point calculation is done of the average of all 4 power stats.

Following chart shows the PvP points. You can see it corrisponds pretty well to the post earlier in the thread, although the earlier post suffers a little inaccuracy from roundings.



So we see an immediate imbalance between offence and defence.

Most major battles happen between occult and bestiary. Event rewards are generally in occult and beastiary. For food reasons people swap infantry and cavalry for occult and bestiary and coiners mostly revive dragons killed in BG's. There is WAY more power in the game in Occult and Bestiary than anything else.

Average defence of Griffen is 588 power. But like golems and demons they defend the best against occult and bestiary. The average value of a griffen to Occult and Beasitary is 725 power. So in nearly all battles they defend significantly tougher than the PvP points awarded.

So all the major defence units defend tougher in fights than they give out PvP points. Reminder, this is because their PvP points of are the average of their defence values but in reality they are nearly always attacked by Occult or Beastiary units and defend higher than their average.


So there is an inbuilt bias to defending in PvP / challenges / War of approx 25% (less on demons).

If that wasn't enough though in most fighting which occurs at castles or beacons, the defence is getting anywhere between a 25% (beacon) to over 200% (nice castle) bonus. Defence in these scenarios will always pound for pound kill more offence and gain more points than the offence can.

_____________________________________________________________________________

Conclusion:

That is why, over and over again you will see challenges and wars where the aggressor, the people who made the running and actually had the balls to do something, will virtually always lose. The defender will earn more points from the attacks than the attacker, even when the attacker quite clearly "won" the fight.

The way to win a challenge or war is easy. You inform you members under NO CIRCUMSTANCES to attack anything. You ONLY defend. You don't defend sieges. And preferably only with WoD's behind castles with high walls. You will wipe the floor with your opponents EVERY time.

Really to make the mechanic work, the points should be worked off the effective power, taking into account unit types and potentially defence bonuses.

And that leads you to another problem - the more bonuses you have (i.e. the more money you have spent) also improves the rate at which you earn points versus your opponent. So the more you fix the mechanic, the more it will shift to pay to win.

Everyone has a right to an opinion. No one has a right to their opinion being respected by other if it can't be backed up with rational and logic explanation
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Alina Bright
Community Manager
13 February, 2017, 3:05 PM UTC
Thank you  for sharing this detailed explanation, Lord Djmoody.
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Nyduc
24 February, 2017, 10:46 AM UTC

it seems me, that not everbody know that u get points for losing own troops.


if u defending with 1 golem and lose him, u get 2 pvp. thats his offense value (80) / 40 = 2 pvp


same with off, if u losing them in attacks
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