Force Limits on Hamlets Very Unbalanced.

18 Replies
Techway_GrandMarshal
11 August, 2017, 5:29 AM UTC

Why is the force limits on Hamlets so unbalanced?


Please correct me if i'm wrong but the defense force limit for a hamlet is 250000 same as the attack force limit at 250000

But the most you can defend a hamlet with using all undead dragons is only about 150 million defense.

But the attack force limit allows you to attack with over 300 million using only dragons.

And if your lucky enough to use all elditch dragons you can attack with over 450 million.


150 mill vs 450 mill This seams very unbalanced. 

Means no matter what you do as long as you attack with more then 151 mill you will win every time. 3 to 1 odds seam wrong.

Can anyone shed some light on this. or offer advice?


UTC +0:00
Mad Roy
11 August, 2017, 7:20 AM UTC
And that's why KT's doing so bad in server 2 lol
UTC -3:00
Oracle
11 August, 2017, 7:54 AM UTC

The main reason why there is unbalance in defense vs offense is because of unit power statistics and imbalance in boost. Normally in PvP games a force limit of 250 000 should make it impossible for a successful offensive mission against a defender, e.g it should be 1:1. But because in these game, unit power of offense unit is tremendously stronger than that of defense, that ratio becomes something like 3:1. An example is a pathfinder whith basic power 75 vs hunter of 15. 

These means when the relics, boost and upgrades are applied, the pathfinder kind of upgrade, getting better stats while the Hunter gets weaker. The only way of fixing these is to balance the units basic power points, and introduce better relics for defense( eg 100% boost to dead dragons). 

Defense right now is absolutely useless in the game, unless you're defending in your castle. 

when we couldn't see bular force in BG, defense was kind of usefull, But now even playing defense BG is redundant( you have to build longer, you have to use less resources=terrible banking). 



You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time. . . . . . Gedleyihlekisa: Oracle the postremogeniture
UTC +2:00
Mad Roy
11 August, 2017, 8:45 AM UTC

Many have already seen this screenshot so, after what's been said above I'll leave this here...






(most epic Hamlet battle that this game has ever seen)
UTC -3:00
Oracle
11 August, 2017, 9:18 AM UTC

Mad Roy said:


Many have already seen this screenshot so, after what's been said above I'll leave this here...






(most epic Hamlet battle that this game has ever seen)

LoL, why are you hiding the name. I mean we ALL know who that is, so why hide his name.

But these is what is supposed to happen


You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time. . . . . . Gedleyihlekisa: Oracle the postremogeniture
UTC +2:00
Mad Roy
11 August, 2017, 9:27 AM UTC
Oracle said:

Mad Roy said:


blablabla

LoL, why are you hiding the name. I mean we ALL know who that is, so why hide his name.

Wasn't sure if it was against the forum rules to expose screenshots from players that involves their identity, since I see many times coordinates and names censored here.
UTC -3:00
Mad Roy
11 August, 2017, 9:29 AM UTC
Oracle said:

Mad Roy said:


blablabla

But these is what is supposed to happen

There were more troops involved in the defensive side, and for both sides there are too many boosts that makes it hard to calculate how much strenght was worth each side.
UTC -3:00
Stewart
11 August, 2017, 10:04 AM UTC

Mad Roy said:



Wasn't sure if it was against the forum rules to expose screenshots from players that involves their identity, since I see many times coordinates and names censored here.

I was Oracle him/it self that was editing peoples posts and pictures because they had peoples name/coords in them. And now says why did you edit it?


It might be a previously undiscovered personality raising its head.
Noodle maker extreme
UTC +0:00
WorldWar3
11 August, 2017, 11:24 AM UTC

There is no DEFENSE force limit on hamlets.

You can have any amount of defense at the hamlets , if you wanted to

UTC +5:00
Oracle
11 August, 2017, 3:08 PM UTC

Mad Roy said:

Wasn't sure if it was against the forum rules to expose screenshots from players that involves their identity, since I see many times coordinates and names censored here.

it against forum rules to expose players, and ingame location to attacks. The enforcement of the rules is in line with forum rule 1.5, 3.3, 6.1, which is normally enforced in line with 3.4.

The rules have been edited, and the old version incorporated into many rules. Interpretation of the rule is always in line with 3.4. eg Screenshots are not deleted, but edited. Eg Lord Oberon editing out UE fort location when it went to level 20 (after complaint). Sometimes the locations and the post are deleted, like when Player A ask the community to attack Player B, an action which incite bullying. 

But names are never edited out, unless they violate 3.4 itself eg calling a league chickens in a offensive way. So you shouldn't edit names ou

You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time. . . . . . Gedleyihlekisa: Oracle the postremogeniture
UTC +2:00
Oracle
11 August, 2017, 3:17 PM UTC

WorldWar3 said:


There is no DEFENSE force limit on hamlets.


You can have any amount of defense at the hamlets , if you wanted to

He means unit limit



You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time. . . . . . Gedleyihlekisa: Oracle the postremogeniture
UTC +2:00
Techway_GrandMarshal
11 August, 2017, 8:21 PM UTC

Mad Roy said:


Many have already seen this screenshot so, after what's been said above I'll leave this here...






(most epic Hamlet battle that this game has ever seen)

Both offense and defense is way over the force limits. just with the offense is close to 320000 force when it should be 250000.

So how is this possible?

Something is not right. 

it looks like the force limits are not being in forced.

Or am I wrong? Can anyone else confirm those numbers has going well over the force limits?

UTC +0:00
Mad Roy
11 August, 2017, 9:31 PM UTC
Both sides are respecting the force limits.
UTC -3:00
Oracle
12 August, 2017, 1:00 PM UTC

Techway_GrandMarshal said:

Both offense and defense is way over the force limits. just with the offense is close to 320000 force when it should be 250000.

So how is this possible?

Something is not right. 

it looks like the force limits are not being in forced.

Or am I wrong? Can anyone else confirm those numbers has going well over the force limits?

Force limits are just unit number. So both side are adhering to the unit limit. 

naturally the basic maximum force limit using dragons is 1 680 * 250 000= 420 000 000( four hundred twenty million), when bonuses, relics, boosts and lost arts upgrades are applied that becomes almost a billion. 

You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time. . . . . . Gedleyihlekisa: Oracle the postremogeniture
UTC +2:00
Mad Roy
12 August, 2017, 6:06 PM UTC
Oracle said:

Techway_GrandMarshal said:

blablabla

Force limits are just unit number. So both side are adhering to the unit limit. 

naturally the basic maximum force limit using dragons is 1 680 * 250 000= 420 000 000( four hundred twenty million), when bonuses, relics, boosts and lost arts upgrades are applied that becomes almost a billion. 

Oracle, the force limit is a system that works separately from the strenght of the units.
UTC -3:00
djmoody
13 August, 2017, 1:07 AM UTC

Oracle said:


Techway_GrandMarshal said:

Both offense and defense is way over the force limits. just with the offense is close to 320000 force when it should be 250000.

So how is this possible?

Something is not right. 

it looks like the force limits are not being in forced.

Or am I wrong? Can anyone else confirm those numbers has going well over the force limits?

Force limits are just unit number. So both side are adhering to the unit limit. 

naturally the basic maximum force limit using dragons is 1 680 * 250 000= 420 000 000( four hundred twenty million), when bonuses, relics, boosts and lost arts upgrades are applied that becomes almost a billion. 

It's based on the food consumption of the units.

People can have all sorts of consumptions boosts but keeping it easy. 


-Darken dragon eats 3 food as a baseline. 

- Force limit of say 250k means max food consumption of sent army is 250k. 

- That means 83.3k dark dragons. 

- Power wise that could be anywhere between 2k and over 8k per dragon depending on the players boosts and bonuses. 

- You could be up to 600/700m. If you had coined a load of GWD to go with you 80k+ darkened dragons then even more.


And of course it could be more if your food consumption bonuses are good allowing you to send more troops within the power can.

Everyone has a right to an opinion. No one has a right to their opinion being respected by other if it can't be backed up with rational and logic explanation
UTC +0:00
Mad Roy
13 August, 2017, 1:37 AM UTC

djmoody said:


Oracle said:


Techway_GrandMarshal said:

blablabla

blablabla

blablabla


And of course it could be more if your food consumption bonuses are good allowing you to send more troops within the power can.

Food consumption bonuses don't affect the force points of the troops, those equal the base food consumption of each unit no matter what bonuses you have on, only thing that changes the base food consumption is darkening.

Base food consumption and force points get reduced by 50% when darkening defensive or spy units, for offensive units it's a 30% decrease.



Will leave here a list of force points per troop, although they're useful just for big armies people.



Funny thing in theory you could send 1000000 ice dragons to anything without caring about any force limit xD

UTC -3:00
BiohazarD
Moderator
13 August, 2017, 10:14 AM UTC
djmoody said:

Oracle said:


Techway_GrandMarshal said:

Both offense and defense is way over the force limits. just with the offense is close to 320000 force when it should be 250000.

So how is this possible?

Something is not right. 

it looks like the force limits are not being in forced.

Or am I wrong? Can anyone else confirm those numbers has going well over the force limits?

Force limits are just unit number. So both side are adhering to the unit limit. 

naturally the basic maximum force limit using dragons is 1 680 * 250 000= 420 000 000( four hundred twenty million), when bonuses, relics, boosts and lost arts upgrades are applied that becomes almost a billion. 

It's based on the food consumption of the units.

People can have all sorts of consumptions boosts but keeping it easy. 


-Darken dragon eats 3 food as a baseline. 

- Force limit of say 250k means max food consumption of sent army is 250k. 

- That means 83.3k dark dragons. 

- Power wise that could be anywhere between 2k and over 8k per dragon depending on the players boosts and bonuses. 

- You could be up to 600/700m. If you had coined a load of GWD to go with you 80k+ darkened dragons then even more.


And of course it could be more if your food consumption bonuses are good allowing you to send more troops within the power can.

Only darkening affects the force limit, other food consumption reductions don't.  so yeah 83.3k dark dragons would be the max, although at that point you're probably coining and have a bunch of eldrich dragons and gwds to go with them so you could fit in a bit more (eldrich dragons are only 2 force each as opposed to 3 for darkened dragons).  
UTC +0:00
BiohazarD
Moderator
13 August, 2017, 10:20 AM UTC

Techway_GrandMarshal said:


Mad Roy said:


Many have already seen this screenshot so, after what's been said above I'll leave this here...






(most epic Hamlet battle that this game has ever seen)

Both offense and defense is way over the force limits. just with the offense is close to 320000 force when it should be 250000.

So how is this possible?

Something is not right. 

it looks like the force limits are not being in forced.

Or am I wrong? Can anyone else confirm those numbers has going well over the force limits?

The attacker can only send 250k force, and it looks like that attack was right at that limit.  

The defender can only send 250k force in the initial wave, but then can send more defense as reinforcements once they have taken the hamlet. So the force limit only really affects the attacker.
UTC +0:00
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