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The Five dysfunctions of Leagues

78 Replies
Oracle
29 May, 2017, 9:30 AM UTC

Thank you, my Lord, for your input. 

Solidarius said:

to put my opinion on the matter, I personally believe that hate/fear is stronger than love because as most of us know or will find out... love does not last so for that reason I think it's probably better to "rule" a league with an "iron fist" than be all nice and warm and cute.arround

Very true, an authoritarian league and ones that work on a system of anarchy don't need to trust each other much. Most Marshals work around these issue by forming what I called above as ''inclusive sub-faction'', they group a few players in the league and form close relationships with them, winning the trust of that group of people. The marshal then places those people in strategic positions in the league, like making them captains, commanders ect The group work together to lead the league, sometimes without the authority of the marshal in the open or in the shadow. They spread their influence in great length within the league thus making sure everyone follows the order of the leadership. 
The other players don't have to trust them but must be controlled by them. For as long as they control players, then the league will flourish. 

This can lead to the destruction of the league when power balance is upset between the faction. When the marshal loses power among the faction or another faction is formed stronger than the marshal's, He/she is forced to step down.

Solidarius said:

I think the most important thing for a league to be successful is activity, it does not matter if there is lack of trust or goals if the players in the league are not "playing" or login on. 

I agree with you.  Conflicts also drive players to log into the game.  Without conflict, players will get bored and leave the game, or the league. 

Biohazard has killed the forum.
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Gadheras
29 May, 2017, 10:55 AM UTC
Oracle said:


Thank you, my Lord, for your input. 

Solidarius said:

to put my opinion on the matter, I personally believe that hate/fear is stronger than love because as most of us know or will find out... love does not last so for that reason I think it's probably better to "rule" a league with an "iron fist" than be all nice and warm and cute.arround

Very true, an authoritarian league and ones that work on a system of anarchy don't need to trust each other much. Most Marshals work around these issue by forming what I called above as ''inclusive sub-faction'', they group a few players in the league and form close relationships with them, winning the trust of that group of people. The marshal then places those people in strategic positions in the league, like making them captains, commanders ect The group work together to lead the league, sometimes without the authority of the marshal in the open or in the shadow. They spread their influence in great length within the league thus making sure everyone follows the order of the leadership. 
The other players don't have to trust them but must be controlled by them. For as long as they control players, then the league will flourish. 

This can lead to the destruction of the league when power balance is upset between the faction. When the marshal loses power among the faction or another faction is formed stronger than the marshal's, He/she is forced to step down.

Solidarius said:

I think the most important thing for a league to be successful is activity, it does not matter if there is lack of trust or goals if the players in the league are not "playing" or login on. 

I agree with you.  Conflicts also drive players to log into the game.  Without conflict, players will get bored and leave the game, or the league. 

Never put people in positions based on them being friends. Friends, might make good friends, but terrible leaders and have lacking abilities for what is required.  activity, Initiative and knowledge is the strongest abilities you want. If they got "people skills" that is a bonus, but hey. can't expect everything. 
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BiohazarD
Moderator
29 May, 2017, 7:20 PM UTC

Gadheras said:


Oracle said:



Thank you, my Lord, for your input. 

Solidarius said:

to put my opinion on the matter, I personally believe that hate/fear is stronger than love because as most of us know or will find out... love does not last so for that reason I think it's probably better to "rule" a league with an "iron fist" than be all nice and warm and cute.arround

Very true, an authoritarian league and ones that work on a system of anarchy don't need to trust each other much. Most Marshals work around these issue by forming what I called above as ''inclusive sub-faction'', they group a few players in the league and form close relationships with them, winning the trust of that group of people. The marshal then places those people in strategic positions in the league, like making them captains, commanders ect The group work together to lead the league, sometimes without the authority of the marshal in the open or in the shadow. They spread their influence in great length within the league thus making sure everyone follows the order of the leadership. 
The other players don't have to trust them but must be controlled by them. For as long as they control players, then the league will flourish. 

This can lead to the destruction of the league when power balance is upset between the faction. When the marshal loses power among the faction or another faction is formed stronger than the marshal's, He/she is forced to step down.

Solidarius said:

I think the most important thing for a league to be successful is activity, it does not matter if there is lack of trust or goals if the players in the league are not "playing" or login on. 

I agree with you.  Conflicts also drive players to log into the game.  Without conflict, players will get bored and leave the game, or the league. 

Never put people in positions based on them being friends. Friends, might make good friends, but terrible leaders and have lacking abilities for what is required.  activity, Initiative and knowledge is the strongest abilities you want. If they got "people skills" that is a bonus, but hey. can't expect everything. 

I'd say people skills are most important for a marshal, as they're the one people talk to when they want to negotiate with the league.  I've seen some marshals who didn't know much about the game itself, but were good at getting people and leagues to follow them, and they did pretty well.  For captains and other supporting players, it's more important to be active and know how to play. 

Any opinions expressed by me are my own and do not necessarily represent the opinions of or constitute official statements by Plarium.
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brunsonthomas
29 May, 2017, 7:46 PM UTC
Not only are people skills required but so is a vision or target or plan. It does not matter what you call it but to have an objective that is both attainable but with a plan how to get there. The Marshal must know where the league is heading and how to get there. Diplomacy skills help to find and create Alliances or treaties to discourage enemies from getting over zealous. The harder part is keeping spies from stealing information for other leagues. With the current state of the game that means anyone promoted above soldier must be explicitly trusted.
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Oracle
29 May, 2017, 9:02 PM UTC

brunsonthomas said:


Not only are people skills required but so is a vision or target or plan. It does not matter what you call it but to have an objective that is both attainable but with a plan how to get there. The Marshal must know where the league is heading and how to get there. Diplomacy skills help to find and create Alliances or treaties to discourage enemies from getting over zealous. The harder part is keeping spies from stealing information for other leagues. With the current state of the game that means anyone promoted above soldier must be explicitly trusted.

Goals are very important. They are correlated to the morale of players and influence the level of their zeal. When the goals are good ones and speaks with reason, achievable or not achievable. Players will be motivated to see them through. 

its always a good Idea to have clear reason WHY you need to set a goal than what your goal is. I highly recommend every league marshal to watch these. In fact everyone should see these video

https://www.ted.com/talks/simon_sinek_how_great_leaders_inspire_action

What is more  important is  the why part of your goal, not the what part of your goals. These is manifest in league messages or post. Most league emphasize more on  what are their goals, than why are they having those goals.

Example of good league post

- We are X league, We do these X we need these X Here are the rules. Do you want to join us? 

Example of good league post

We believe coining makes a great team X, and X . That is why we do X. We just happen to be X  league, and focus on PvP.  Want to join us?

To expand on that, Always make sure make your league goals as specific as possible, have measurable standards that can be attainable and is relevant to your players relevant and can be achieved in a time that your players can actually manage with


Biohazard has killed the forum.
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IronApex Turok
30 May, 2017, 3:39 AM UTC
Oracle said:

English is not my arterial language. I was planning on deleting the thread, and editing in the background and adding more information as I was not done with it, I planned on posting it today. But I lost the internet before I could delete it, and work on it, from now on I will work on word

But thank you for showing some of the eye-hurting-grammatical-howlers. I fixed some of them. Should you see them please notify me by PM, and I will fix them. 


in other words.... you were going to abuse your powers as a moderator to rough draft your posts.   
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Solidarius
31 May, 2017, 3:41 AM UTC

Oracle said:



Thank you, my Lord, for your input. 

Solidarius said:

to put my opinion on the matter, I personally believe that hate/fear is stronger than love because as most of us know or will find out... love does not last so for that reason I think it's probably better to "rule" a league with an "iron fist" than be all nice and warm and cute.arround

Very true, an authoritarian league and ones that work on a system of anarchy don't need to trust each other much. Most Marshals work around these issue by forming what I called above as ''inclusive sub-faction'', they group a few players in the league and form close relationships with them, winning the trust of that group of people. The marshal then places those people in strategic positions in the league, like making them captains, commanders ect The group work together to lead the league, sometimes without the authority of the marshal in the open or in the shadow. They spread their influence in great length within the league thus making sure everyone follows the order of the leadership. 
The other players don't have to trust them but must be controlled by them. For as long as they control players, then the league will flourish. 

This can lead to the destruction of the league when power balance is upset between the faction. When the marshal loses power among the faction or another faction is formed stronger than the marshal's, He/she is forced to step down.

Solidarius said:

I think the most important thing for a league to be successful is activity, it does not matter if there is lack of trust or goals if the players in the league are not "playing" or login on. 

I agree with you.  Conflicts also drive players to log into the game.  Without conflict, players will get bored and leave the game, or the league. 

yep Marshals and Capt/ect are key to the "system" of a league... I dont mind being "ordered" because I believe thats what a soldiers job is after all. Dont get me wrong trust for the lower members is important but I think they need to earn it first by activity asking questions about the game and putting defense on beacons ect ect

Conflict can also drive players out of the game, losing beacons because of constant fights vs a stronger league ... I know a few that have made big mistakes like myself and lost nearly all their army in a bad raid/defense and that alone caused them to quit because it take so much time to build it back.

a recent example, I know a league in my server(2) that lost their beacons a few weeks ago that had 160 members and within a few days it had only like 70 left.

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Moredread
31 May, 2017, 8:27 AM UTC

Griffen said:


Oracle said:


According to one of the most, if ever succesfull guild/marshal 

It's just pure genius. Add words together to form nonsensical sentences, or in this case one that has the complete opposite meaning your going for. Knowing who it probably came from I would definitely stick with the "if ever" bit though.

 
To achieve these trust leaders often fail and even covert admitting to their own mistakes

Covertly admitting to mistakes. Those words have no meaning when added together.


 
I like the fourth definition much better

Particularly good one as there are only 3 in the picture......


 
These is like DNA, once a part initiated for trascription, further copies are activated downhill.

Back to pure gibberish.


 
and I tell you a league dies at the day it was made, and is buried at the day its goals where put in place

That is even in bold. Who highlights in bold the most meaningless part of their post.


Was this done in google translate or something? Either that or one of those clever random paragraph generators. 

It's not a serious contribution though right. It can't be surely. Totally demented ramblings.


Lol! Well said! 
Although i suspect that English is likely the OP's second, third, or even fourth language.

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Oracle
31 May, 2017, 4:51 PM UTC

Moredread said:

Lol! Well said! 

Although i suspect that English is likely the OP's second, third, or even fourth language.


English is my First additional language, officially. Between I learned more than seven languages before I got to English, I kind of work in 3D, form first lang-to afr to Eng ect.

Having learnt many languages makes it easy for me to understand a non-native english speaker very well. That is why no one hires a native speaker in translation jobs, teaching and other communication stuffs like moderating. A non-native can understand english better than a native, period.


Biohazard has killed the forum.
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nobody
31 May, 2017, 5:10 PM UTC

Oracle said:


English is not my arterial language. I was planning on deleting the thread, and editing in the background and adding more information as I was not done with it, I planned on posting it today. But I lost the internet before I could delete it, and work on it, from now on I will work on word

But thank you for showing some of the eye-hurting-grammatical-howlers. I fixed some of them. Should you see them please notify me by PM, and I will fix them. 


aha,  told you about 3rd, fourth, 5th and 6th languages.

as for the thread itself, i don't consider it a bad effort.  it may not be the best, but it may have been a true effort.  whether you are attempting true growth or whether this is your greatest troll, that idk, but i will side with true growth.

as to the player who stated that this "and I tell you a league dies at the day it was made, and is buried at the day its goals where put in place" is the most meaningless statement in the post.  wrong, incorrect, false, inaccurate.  this is a statement of the foundation of the vision and direction of the league.  there are many other variables, but the vision and direction of a top 10 league that lasts years and a league that never gains more than 20 players or breaks the top 500 leagues, then fades away, is the difference.  it is a statement of use of strategy, the thought out vision and direction of those founding the goals of the league.


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djmoody
31 May, 2017, 6:04 PM UTC

nobody said:


"and I tell you a league dies at the day it was made, and is buried at the day its goals where put in place" is the most meaningless statement in the post.  wrong, incorrect, false, inaccurate.  this is a statement of the foundation of the vision and direction of the league.  there are many other variables, but the vision and direction of a top 10 league that lasts years and a league that never gains more than 20 players or breaks the top 500 leagues, then fades away, is the difference.  it is a statement of use of strategy, the thought out vision and direction of those founding the goals of the league.

So when you read that sentence what meaning did you ascribe to it. Because I can tell you at face value it is absolutely meaningless drivel. Maybe you assumed a meaning.

- a league dies the at the day it was made

Clearly garbage as we know league's don't die on the day of their creation. Don't know what more someone can say to point out how stupid that statement is

- and is buried at the day its goals where (sic) put in place

surely the absolute opposite is true, a league with real goals and objective, assuming they are well thought out and rational, it going to do so much better than a league with no goals that simply drifts....

Surely "a league is born on the day it was made and truly grows up/matures at the day its goals were put in place".


I must admit I too have many times found myself wondering whether the Oracle account is one of the greatest trolls of all time. Sometimes seems the most logical conclusion. But in case there is a real person behind it, you end up having to give it the benefit of the doubt.

Everyone has a right to an opinion. No one has a right to their opinion being respected by other if it can't be backed up with rational and logic explanation
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Limad
31 May, 2017, 9:18 PM UTC
I know there aren't a huge amount of contributors on here, but it does hurt the eyes to read some of the stuff Oracle posts. Someone recently suggested that his posts should be vetted by a CM. I agree. I know I'm new on this forum and I'm not even on the same server, but I'd like this thing to be a useful and amusing channel for information between players. My two cents.
Hola!
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Limad
31 May, 2017, 9:32 PM UTC
To add something positive to this thread, our Marshall sends a league wide mail each Monday listing every player from our league who has featured in the top 20 for the various categories, raid, off, def, seige etc. It's a nice touch and you get to see how everyone is doing from week to week. 
Hola!
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Oracle
31 May, 2017, 9:34 PM UTC

nobody said:


Oracle said:


English is not my arterial language. I was planning on deleting the thread, and editing in the background and adding more information as I was not done with it, I planned on posting it today. But I lost the internet before I could delete it, and work on it, from now on I will work on word

But thank you for showing some of the eye-hurting-grammatical-howlers. I fixed some of them. Should you see them please notify me by PM, and I will fix them. 


aha,  told you about 3rd, fourth, 5th and 6th languages.

as for the thread itself, i don't consider it a bad effort.  it may not be the best, but it may have been a true effort.  whether you are attempting true growth or whether this is your greatest troll, that idk, but i will side with true growth.

as to the player who stated that this "and I tell you a league dies at the day it was made, and is buried at the day its goals where put in place" is the most meaningless statement in the post.  wrong, incorrect, false, inaccurate.  this is a statement of the foundation of the vision and direction of the league.  there are many other variables, but the vision and direction of a top 10 league that lasts years and a league that never gains more than 20 players or breaks the top 500 leagues, then fades away, is the difference.  it is a statement of use of strategy, the thought out vision and direction of those founding the goals of the league.


I never said that. I did English as my First additional Language in School. kinda like second language. In paper its that way.  But before I learned to speak and write  English I already knew how to speak and write  many languages unofficially. outside school. 

Biohazard has killed the forum.
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Oracle
31 May, 2017, 9:44 PM UTC

djmoody said:



- a league dies the at the day it was made

Clearly garbage as we know league's don't die on the day of their creation. Don't know what more someone can say to point out how stupid that statement is

 Lost, i didn't write that. 

I said these

a league dies at the day it was made, and is buried at the day its goals where put in place

Is that simple. You make a league with bad intentions. You are then prone to make''bad'' league goals. Your league died when it was made. Choices that you make, choices that lead you to make a league, lead to your league ''dying'' and being ''buried'' destroyed/ not flourish ect. due to its bad goals. 

 personal question

I can tell, you must be English, Are you all English/british from my communications with people of that decent, they simply can get idioms. never mind extended metaphors? especially ones of a different language. 

By the way that is a combination of two idioms, from two languages. Zulu + Japanese.

Biohazard has killed the forum.
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Limad
31 May, 2017, 9:57 PM UTC
Oracle, you're ruining the forum. You know that, right? Less is more. 
Hola!
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djmoody
31 May, 2017, 10:12 PM UTC

Superb. Now anyone can write meaningless drivel and just say they are a genius writing in idioms.


Oracle said:


I can tell, you must be English, Are you all English/british from my communications with people of that decent, they simply can get idioms. never mind extended metaphors? especially ones of a different language. 

And at what point were forum members, let alone moderators allowed to be racist.


What a pathetic troll. Plarium should be utterly ashamed of this farce.




Everyone has a right to an opinion. No one has a right to their opinion being respected by other if it can't be backed up with rational and logic explanation
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Oracle
1 June, 2017, 8:56 AM UTC

djmoody said:


Superb. Now anyone can write meaningless drivel and just say they are a genius writing in idioms.


Oracle said:


I can tell, you must be English, Are you all English/british from my communications with people of that decent, they simply can get idioms. never mind extended metaphors? especially ones of a different language. 

And at what point were forum members, let alone moderators allowed to be racist.


What a pathetic troll. Plarium should be utterly ashamed of this farce.




I understand that we had a fallout,before I became a mod. But must you keep on accusing me of things I didn't say, misquoting my words, and driving topics off-topics. 

Read what I said above, English understand idioms. I wrote that to actually see if your misunderstanding of what I write comes as a fault of mine or not.

My findings Lord DJMoody doesn't read what I write, and has twice misquoted me and attacked those quotes. 

latest misquote 

 Are you all English/british from my communications with people of that decent, they simply can get idioms. 

Please read, what I write, before accusing me of things I didn't say. 


English is the world most spoken language. Laguages of other cultures are translated into English, these will include idioms. Therefore compared with a German, and English spaker will vast knowledge of idioms from other culture. That is what I said, 

''from my communications with people of that decent, they simply can get idioms. ''

All idioms from different cultures have been translated into English. So people who speak English as a primary language will easily understand idioms., compared with someone who don't.

Biohazard has killed the forum.
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BiohazarD
Moderator
1 June, 2017, 9:13 AM UTC
IronApex Turok said:

Oracle said:

English is not my arterial language. I was planning on deleting the thread, and editing in the background and adding more information as I was not done with it, I planned on posting it today. But I lost the internet before I could delete it, and work on it, from now on I will work on word

But thank you for showing some of the eye-hurting-grammatical-howlers. I fixed some of them. Should you see them please notify me by PM, and I will fix them. 


in other words.... you were going to abuse your powers as a moderator to rough draft your posts.   
Anyone can edit their own posts.  That's not just a moderator thing.
Any opinions expressed by me are my own and do not necessarily represent the opinions of or constitute official statements by Plarium.
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BiohazarD
Moderator
1 June, 2017, 9:17 AM UTC

Oracle said:


djmoody said:



- a league dies the at the day it was made

Clearly garbage as we know league's don't die on the day of their creation. Don't know what more someone can say to point out how stupid that statement is

 Lost, i didn't write that. 

I said these

a league dies at the day it was made, and is buried at the day its goals where put in place

Is that simple. You make a league with bad intentions. You are then prone to make''bad'' league goals. Your league died when it was made. Choices that you make, choices that lead you to make a league, lead to your league ''dying'' and being ''buried'' destroyed/ not flourish ect. due to its bad goals. 

 personal question

I can tell, you must be English, Are you all English/british from my communications with people of that decent, they simply can get idioms. never mind extended metaphors? especially ones of a different language. 

By the way that is a combination of two idioms, from two languages. Zulu + Japanese.

And then I be like


Any opinions expressed by me are my own and do not necessarily represent the opinions of or constitute official statements by Plarium.
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