This topic is closed

I just seen a glimpse of our future...

29 Replies
Alyona Kolomiitseva
Community Manager
29 September, 2016, 9:08 AM UTC

Gadheras said:




and I know its pointless to say this AGAIN, but.... "faster recovery"..... >>>> Quality of living and gameplay.

It's very complicated. Let's imagine a situation: You've lost all Units and now you need 2 months to rebuild to compete with others.

Even if we cut training time by 50%, you will still need 1 month to rebuild. Which is still too long. It's not 1 day as most of you would like to. And players would still be dissatisfied.

Moreover, if you build faster, it means that your rivals also build faster. So you can't take over and get an advantage of it - all players will rebuild as fast as you, and you will need to build more and more Units to compete with them. Which results in more time.

If we drastically change building time, it would be fair to change the price of Units as Sapphires are mostly designed to save your time. So if you need to spend twice less time, it would be fair to spend less Sapphires for it, right?

And it would allow some players to buy even more Units than they can buy now.

What does this mean for you? Even longer to build to compete with them. It's called inflation. Your Units will cost less in a fight. If you need 1 mil. now, you will need 2 mil after changes. Which still results in the same building time.

As you can see, it's not our devs who don't want you to build Units faster. It's about keeping our game balance which is not so easy as it seems to be.

Some games have a different dynamics which includes 1-2 hour rebuild of a full army. But our game is using a different approach. You need to invest your time and spend Resources to build a large army. Sometimes it takes several months of building for a single epic strike. And such strikes are more epic and more exciting than everyday 10k hits.

Feel free to debate, maybe you will find some points that I could use to convince our devs.

Plarium Community Manager. Please note that I will be unable to respond to your private messages, review your tickets, or check your account information. All technical issues should be directed to our Support Team at plrm.me/Support_Plarium
UTC +2:00
djmoody
29 September, 2016, 11:50 AM UTC

Alyona Kolomiitseva said:


On the other hand, guys do have fun with this war.  

I can tell you first hand having been in 3 serious wars against uber coiners that it isn't fun.

You constantly know that no matter how skillful your are, whether you make the very best strategic decisions or not, whether all 160 of your members do everything they can, that who wins or loses the war depends solely on how much money the other side spend. All you can do is make it more expensive for them.

And for the naive and ill informed we are not talking about small amounts we are talking about spending in the six figure range on just a couple of accounts, buying billions of troop power. 

It's taken the united front of multiple of the best leagues in the game to counter these threats so far (Coralition/UC in my server). Even then it has significantly distorted the game.

Thankfully to date. by luck not Plarium judgement, none have completely changed the server yet. But with coining so much cheaper now it appears only a matter of time.

To sum it up it makes the servers pointless for the rest of us to play. That includes moderate coiners, not just F2P. 

The only reason there are any customers at all is that people find it difficult to just up and quit when they have invested months or sometimes years of time into the game. In my opinion that is no way to run a game, with most of your customers really wanting to leave and quit but just clinging on day to day. If you don't believe this statement then run a poll amoung your longer term players.



Everyone has a right to an opinion. No one has a right to their opinion being respected by other if it can't be backed up with rational and logic explanation
UTC +0:00
djmoody
29 September, 2016, 12:12 PM UTC

As to solution.......

Being an active player needs to be rewarded by the ability to create more power per month. The balance between coining and actually playing the game needs significant rebalancing (and has done ever since you made coining x9 cheaper via 75% healer and constant 2 hourly offers).

How do you do this:

1. Tweak troop build times so the maximum daily troop production from fully raiding is increased

2. Make BG's profitable (why you are on a war to make your game content provide no reward to players is beyond me)

3. Ensure events can be done profitably (which by and large they are today)

The target balance should be that a highly active player who uses all their raids effectively, clears BG's effectively and clears all quests effectively should be able to produce 10-15m troop power per month - about x3 more than today.

BG's have a maximum number per day. Making them profitable is therefore completely controllable by the developers and could be balanced appropriately against the profit from raiding.

I suspect none of the above would hurt your profit from coiners. They would still be able to see their troop power go up by the same amount for each $ they spent. The fact the game was more balanced behind the scenes wouldn't be that evident to them at all.

That wouldn't solve the problem from the occasional ridiculous coiner you have. For that you have to bite the bullet and put a max cap on spending. Your reward for that would 4 fold:

1. You can sleep at night knowing that you are making a quality game for people to enjoy not a pathetic money trap which leaves most who play empty by the time they quit (as staff I am sure you will enjoy making good games rather than easy money games)

2. The long term future of your titles is more secure (you are sacrificing short term profit for long term profit)

3. As people enjoy your titles more they are more likely to play another title in future and be loyal to your brand (at the moment I suspect very few ever come back to play another Plarium game after the first experience - again long term profit over short term)

4. The player base for your games will grow, you will start making more money from more people, rather than rely on stupid unbalancing money from a tiny amount of people

If you need a wake up call. Quite a lot of chat in our Teamspeak recently has been about looking for another game that is not "pay to win" unbalanced (and that involved many leagues not just my own as a lot of ppl congregate in our TS) 



Everyone has a right to an opinion. No one has a right to their opinion being respected by other if it can't be backed up with rational and logic explanation
UTC +0:00
Gadheras
29 September, 2016, 12:37 PM UTC

Alyona Kolomiitseva said:


Gadheras said:




and I know its pointless to say this AGAIN, but.... "faster recovery"..... >>>> Quality of living and gameplay.

It's very complicated. Let's imagine a situation: You've lost all Units and now you need 2 months to rebuild to compete with others.

Even if we cut training time by 50%, you will still need 1 month to rebuild. Which is still too long. It's not 1 day as most of you would like to. And players would still be dissatisfied.

Moreover, if you build faster, it means that your rivals also build faster. So you can't take over and get an advantage of it - all players will rebuild as fast as you, and you will need to build more and more Units to compete with them. Which results in more time.

If we drastically change building time, it would be fair to change the price of Units as Sapphires are mostly designed to save your time. So if you need to spend twice less time, it would be fair to spend less Sapphires for it, right?

And it would allow some players to buy even more Units than they can buy now.

What does this mean for you? Even longer to build to compete with them. It's called inflation. Your Units will cost less in a fight. If you need 1 mil. now, you will need 2 mil after changes. Which still results in the same building time.

As you can see, it's not our devs who don't want you to build Units faster. It's about keeping our game balance which is not so easy as it seems to be.

Some games have a different dynamics which includes 1-2 hour rebuild of a full army. But our game is using a different approach. You need to invest your time and spend Resources to build a large army. Sometimes it takes several months of building for a single epic strike. And such strikes are more epic and more exciting than everyday 10k hits.

Feel free to debate, maybe you will find some points that I could use to convince our devs.

Build time near instant with resources being the limiting factor imho. Players who spend lots of time and is active, good at raiding, benefit the most from this. We already reached a point where there is stupid billion + strenght sitting at individual players. What you can build deppends on resources you got. When your castle dont produce surplus of food anylonger, you are deppending on raiding and trading, both that make you play the game active. 


Get ridd of the bot castles, just do it already, promote raiding to get resources to build more units faster. It will promote war and pvp. Someone who spend sapphires to buy units, would still just get units instant, no need to send spies, find targets, raid and so on. So they already take a easy route.


UTC +2:00
brunsonthomas
29 September, 2016, 2:19 PM UTC
Gadheras said:

Alyona Kolomiitseva said:


Gadheras said:




and I know its pointless to say this AGAIN, but.... "faster recovery"..... >>>> Quality of living and gameplay.

It's very complicated. Let's imagine a situation: You've lost all Units and now you need 2 months to rebuild to compete with others.

Even if we cut training time by 50%, you will still need 1 month to rebuild. Which is still too long. It's not 1 day as most of you would like to. And players would still be dissatisfied.

Moreover, if you build faster, it means that your rivals also build faster. So you can't take over and get an advantage of it - all players will rebuild as fast as you, and you will need to build more and more Units to compete with them. Which results in more time.

If we drastically change building time, it would be fair to change the price of Units as Sapphires are mostly designed to save your time. So if you need to spend twice less time, it would be fair to spend less Sapphires for it, right?

And it would allow some players to buy even more Units than they can buy now.

What does this mean for you? Even longer to build to compete with them. It's called inflation. Your Units will cost less in a fight. If you need 1 mil. now, you will need 2 mil after changes. Which still results in the same building time.

As you can see, it's not our devs who don't want you to build Units faster. It's about keeping our game balance which is not so easy as it seems to be.

Some games have a different dynamics which includes 1-2 hour rebuild of a full army. But our game is using a different approach. You need to invest your time and spend Resources to build a large army. Sometimes it takes several months of building for a single epic strike. And such strikes are more epic and more exciting than everyday 10k hits.

Feel free to debate, maybe you will find some points that I could use to convince our devs.

Build time near instant with resources being the limiting factor imho. Players who spend lots of time and is active, good at raiding, benefit the most from this. We already reached a point where there is stupid billion + strenght sitting at individual players. What you can build deppends on resources you got. When your castle dont produce surplus of food anylonger, you are deppending on raiding and trading, both that make you play the game active. 


Get ridd of the bot castles, just do it already, promote raiding to get resources to build more units faster. It will promote war and pvp. Someone who spend sapphires to buy units, would still just get units instant, no need to send spies, find targets, raid and so on. So they already take a easy route.


When they get rid of the bots something will need to be done to the limits on raids. Try upgrading a farm from level 19 to 20 you will see that you nearly have to max every resource in your castle to accomplish this. Even with bots it takes 3 days to recover enough resources to level up. Buying food packages gets expensive, especially since the more you buy the more expensive Plarium makes the packages available to you. So that with a limited budget again you get forced farther and farther behind those with unlimited financial resources. 
UTC +5:00
Gadheras
29 September, 2016, 2:47 PM UTC
brunsonthomas said:

Gadheras said:

Alyona Kolomiitseva said:


Gadheras said:




and I know its pointless to say this AGAIN, but.... "faster recovery"..... >>>> Quality of living and gameplay.

It's very complicated. Let's imagine a situation: You've lost all Units and now you need 2 months to rebuild to compete with others.

Even if we cut training time by 50%, you will still need 1 month to rebuild. Which is still too long. It's not 1 day as most of you would like to. And players would still be dissatisfied.

Moreover, if you build faster, it means that your rivals also build faster. So you can't take over and get an advantage of it - all players will rebuild as fast as you, and you will need to build more and more Units to compete with them. Which results in more time.

If we drastically change building time, it would be fair to change the price of Units as Sapphires are mostly designed to save your time. So if you need to spend twice less time, it would be fair to spend less Sapphires for it, right?

And it would allow some players to buy even more Units than they can buy now.

What does this mean for you? Even longer to build to compete with them. It's called inflation. Your Units will cost less in a fight. If you need 1 mil. now, you will need 2 mil after changes. Which still results in the same building time.

As you can see, it's not our devs who don't want you to build Units faster. It's about keeping our game balance which is not so easy as it seems to be.

Some games have a different dynamics which includes 1-2 hour rebuild of a full army. But our game is using a different approach. You need to invest your time and spend Resources to build a large army. Sometimes it takes several months of building for a single epic strike. And such strikes are more epic and more exciting than everyday 10k hits.

Feel free to debate, maybe you will find some points that I could use to convince our devs.

Build time near instant with resources being the limiting factor imho. Players who spend lots of time and is active, good at raiding, benefit the most from this. We already reached a point where there is stupid billion + strenght sitting at individual players. What you can build deppends on resources you got. When your castle dont produce surplus of food anylonger, you are deppending on raiding and trading, both that make you play the game active. 


Get ridd of the bot castles, just do it already, promote raiding to get resources to build more units faster. It will promote war and pvp. Someone who spend sapphires to buy units, would still just get units instant, no need to send spies, find targets, raid and so on. So they already take a easy route.


When they get rid of the bots something will need to be done to the limits on raids. Try upgrading a farm from level 19 to 20 you will see that you nearly have to max every resource in your castle to accomplish this. Even with bots it takes 3 days to recover enough resources to level up. Buying food packages gets expensive, especially since the more you buy the more expensive Plarium makes the packages available to you. So that with a limited budget again you get forced farther and farther behind those with unlimited financial resources. 
Resources to upgrade is fine as it is, I leveled up all my farms at max with resources, just from save up and raid. I just saved up some and raided what I needed extra., and saved up packs from league quests tipped me over many times.
UTC +2:00
Snowgoon
29 September, 2016, 3:02 PM UTC

brunsonthomas said:


When they get rid of the bots something will need to be done to the limits on raids. Try upgrading a farm from level 19 to 20 you will see that you nearly have to max every resource in your castle to accomplish this. Even with bots it takes 3 days to recover enough resources to level up. Buying food packages gets expensive, especially since the more you buy the more expensive Plarium makes the packages available to you. So that with a limited budget again you get forced farther and farther behind those with unlimited financial resources. 

This is just another example of imbalance between other games and servers.

Pirate farm upgrades only cost 37k/37k/74k - http://prntscr.com/cnsubs

Pirate Battlegrounds are not defended by Marennon, Orcs, Raiders and Ogres - they scrapped that idea because it was too unpredictable and designed one new defensive unit instead. (similar to our Huntress)

Alyona keeps telling us that the game needs to be balanced, but this is not possible when all plarium games and servers use different rulebooks

Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way - Pink Floyd - http://prnt.sc/dv923b
UTC +0:00
Alyona Kolomiitseva
Community Manager
30 September, 2016, 7:48 AM UTC

Snowgoon said:

This is just another example of imbalance between other games and servers.

Pirate farm upgrades only cost 37k/37k/74k - http://prntscr.com/cnsubs

Pirate Battlegrounds are not defended by Marennon, Orcs, Raiders and Ogres - they scrapped that idea because it was too unpredictable and designed one new defensive unit instead. (similar to our Huntress)

Alyona keeps telling us that the game needs to be balanced, but this is not possible when all plarium games and servers use different rulebooks

Why to compare different games? I never told they are exactly the same. Sometimes we update some of them with different features (Like League Help on SF and combined Beacons on Pirates), then we analyze those features, gather feedback, make some improvements and then decide if we need to implement this feature in all games. 


As for the BG Units, I didn't know they are different. Here is a ss posted by one of our Pirates players from FB server: http://screencast.com/t/f6gVHkmVvT 4 types of Units, just like in Stormfall.

Plarium Community Manager. Please note that I will be unable to respond to your private messages, review your tickets, or check your account information. All technical issues should be directed to our Support Team at plrm.me/Support_Plarium
UTC +2:00
Snowgoon
30 September, 2016, 3:00 PM UTC

Alyona Kolomiitseva said:


As for the BG Units, I didn't know they are different. Here is a ss posted by one of our Pirates players from FB server: http://screencast.com/t/f6gVHkmVvT 4 types of Units, just like in Stormfall.

There can be no logical reason for making Stormfall farms so expensive to upgrade - the difference in costs is staggering.


The Pirate battleground in your screenshot is Defensive so the 4 units are identical to our Balur units and are 100% predictable.
Marennon will always have 80 offense and Ogres have 60 etc.


Red Battlegrounds on Stormfall can be very unpredictable - we have seen many players lose 6 million offense on level 100, which were originally designed to contain only 3 million defense.
Pirate devs created Poseidos units to defend their bg - http://prntscr.com/co76gf

920 Poseidos x 30 defense = 27,600 total defense and it makes no difference which units we send.
Pirate bg are not easier to attack, just more predictable

Red battlegrounds were improved tremendously when we were given full battle reports after sending one archer/pikeman but the defense calculations are still cumbersome for most players


You must also remember that New Beacons are defended by Balur Units, not just red bg.
After a Beacon drop, it is a race to grab them
We don't have time to send spies and then spend 3 weeks building infantry and cavalry ... we must attack immediately and will lose many extra dragons if beacons are randomly over-populated with marennon (which have 240 defense v dragons)

Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way - Pink Floyd - http://prnt.sc/dv923b
UTC +0:00
BiohazarD
Moderator
30 September, 2016, 6:14 PM UTC
Snowgoon said:

Alyona Kolomiitseva said:


As for the BG Units, I didn't know they are different. Here is a ss posted by one of our Pirates players from FB server: http://screencast.com/t/f6gVHkmVvT 4 types of Units, just like in Stormfall.

There can be no logical reason for making Stormfall farms so expensive to upgrade - the difference in costs is staggering.


The Pirate battleground in your screenshot is Defensive so the 4 units are identical to our Balur units and are 100% predictable.
Marennon will always have 80 offense and Ogres have 60 etc.


Red Battlegrounds on Stormfall can be very unpredictable - we have seen many players lose 6 million offense on level 100, which were originally designed to contain only 3 million defense.
Pirate devs created Poseidos units to defend their bg - http://prntscr.com/co76gf

920 Poseidos x 30 defense = 27,600 total defense and it makes no difference which units we send.
Pirate bg are not easier to attack, just more predictable

Red battlegrounds were improved tremendously when we were given full battle reports after sending one archer/pikeman but the defense calculations are still cumbersome for most players


You must also remember that New Beacons are defended by Balur Units, not just red bg.
After a Beacon drop, it is a race to grab them
We don't have time to send spies and then spend 3 weeks building infantry and cavalry ... we must attack immediately and will lose many extra dragons if beacons are randomly over-populated with marennon (which have 240 defense v dragons)

The main issue with bgs isn't the type of units defending them, it's the % of your banked resources that you get back when you get a payout.  Most players won't care if sometimes it takes 3 million offense to kill a bg and you get 3.3 million back but other times it takes 6 million to kill it but you win 6.6 million back.  But if it always takes exactly 3 million and you always get 2.7 million back, most people who are capable of doing math will quickly realize bgs are a waste of time. 
UTC +0:00
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