LOW REWARDS IN TOURNAMENTS

37 Replies
Alarico
18 November, 2016, 9:13 AM UTC

It gives me the impression that in the last Tournaments, you spend a lot of troops to then receive some rewards that in no case are evenly matched with the inverted ....

Lords of plarium if the tournaments are only worth to lose troops, so we play them ????

UTC +1:00
Alyona Kolomiitseva
Community Manager
18 November, 2016, 12:57 PM UTC
Do you mean some specific Tournaments, or in general? 
Plarium Community Manager. Please note that I will be unable to respond to your private messages, review your tickets, or check your account information. All technical issues should be directed to our Support Team at plrm.me/Support_Plarium
UTC +2:00
Alarico
18 November, 2016, 1:53 PM UTC

In general, but especially to the last one of villas, that nor arriving at x2. Even one-half of the units spent could be recovered.

Although I am pleased to see that in this last PVP tournament. They have fixed that failure that had great jump points, without giving great rewards of troops.

UTC +1:00
Nuno Paiva
19 November, 2016, 2:07 PM UTC

jaesnas said:


In general, but especially to the last one of villas, that nor arriving at x2. Even one-half of the units spent could be recovered.

Although I am pleased to see that in this last PVP tournament. They have fixed that failure that had great jump points, without giving great rewards of troops.

Hello Archon

The x2.2 tournaments, you need to work with your team to get the maximum rewards, and split the losses. All coalitions tournaments are worth playing, but you need to get all your teammates on the same page.

About solo tournaments, I must agree, the rewards are not so great, so, i just leave them at the bottom of my plans.


The Massacre event, the one you also mention in your comment, i like it too, I had a lot of fun, and i also had some positive feedbaks from other coalitions.


You just need to plan and play in tournaments that suits you best...


Above all, have fun.

Best regards

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Prometheus
19 November, 2016, 5:41 PM UTC

This game Archon , is a long term game.


Do the tournaments you deem worthy and leave out the rest. In the mean time, raid for resources and build your army!
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Lockdown51
20 November, 2016, 4:17 AM UTC
Prometheus said:

This game Archon , is a long term game.


Do the tournaments you deem worthy and leave out the rest. In the mean time, raid for resources and build your army!
Everything is a long term game. That doesn't mean the rewards couldn't be a bit more. Especially considering I've heard magical tales of yore when the rewards were more. I do understand that tournes are meant to encourage people to use troops and thus it is a resources sink and all games need sinks. But even so Firebringer, the payouts are fractions, tiny fractions of the resources needed to get the max rewards. Coalition tournes are nice as, yes, it does spread out the cost some but you still have to individually expend a lot of resources for relatively small game. Sadly that is the only way to get Drachmii and a few other items you just can't get anywhere else. Even in the Cash Shop. If you guys aren't willing to boost the rewards, at least change the counting system so the points go up quicker or lower the thread holds.
UTC +7:00
FlyinTiger
21 November, 2016, 5:58 PM UTC
GPS is only a myth anymore.  The total lack of availability leaves newer players virtually NO CHANCE of producing the higher-level units.  It was mentioned on another Plarium game that they are generated at random.  If that's the case then maybe there needs to be human intervention.  But that scares me as well because that means trusting that maneuver to people who can't even fix a simple e-mail system.
W
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Tonaya
6 December, 2016, 10:58 PM UTC

Alyona Kolomiitseva said:


Do you mean some specific Tournaments, or in general? 

in general,Alyona,in any tournament rewards are too small and there is no reason to play any tournament.i skip almost every other tournament,because we loose troops all the time and rewards are cheap.i'v posted for small rewards few times,you or delete my post because i'm violator of something,or your answer is :its all ok,just put more money in the game and everything gonna be ok :(

i play game more then 2 years,i know all players who complain on forum,about same things,its not nobs,its high lvl players who play game long as me,if we all saying same thing and complain about same stuff,why cant you ,plarium workers,understand that.what else should we do?to leave game and delete account ,so you can recruit new players and milk them til their wallets are dry?

before your BAD changes of the game,there were pvp tournament every weekend and every other weekend persian tournament,rewards was good,for 10k pvp points it was 480 REGULAR promachos,or 960 thure,now they are not even close on 2.2x reward,thats the problem you dont want to see.why to go to war and kill troops from other players if you gonna loose much more then you will get as reward,what is the point?now you give saris rewards,or imperial promachos,thure,and small number of them,when new tournament show up,i open just to see which troops are on rewards,i see imperial troops,i skip tournament,why?because imperial troops have no value on persians,and thats why a lot players lost all troops they'v builded for months and years,and you Alyona answer to me:every troop have certain value :(  i didnt say that only one time,i said many times,and then some strange players(disguised moderators)answer its not truth,and all players who read that dont know who to believe,and when they loose all army,they understand who is right.I PLAY game every day,i PLAY PERSIANS,you,Alyona and Nikita meteor,DONT PLAY GAME AT ALL,so I KNOW and you DONT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT TROOPS VALUE ON PERSIANS.i am sick and tired of typing and complaining here anymore,it is like talking with the wall,nothing changes,no result,when you loose all players and kill the game,then you will understand but its gonna be too late,and SULFUR will explain to you how greed is bad!!!!!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!


Tonaya 

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RIX
6 December, 2016, 11:13 PM UTC

Take your time and build your army slowly, gain drachma through pvp slowly and then in about a year of meticulously and painstakingly developing your army, you will lose it all in one hit from some guy that bought his army the week prior. ROFL


Nothing wrong with paying to play but the gap between non coiners, mild coiners and heavy coiners is so large that you are obviously losing popularity.  So far since the release of sketches, you have graciously given 170 of them in awards during pvp tourney and your door prizes during holidays.  At that pace it will take about a decade to upgrade a 3rd of your city. 

A T H E N A
UTC -5:00
Alyona Kolomiitseva
Community Manager
7 December, 2016, 11:00 AM UTC

Tonaya said:


Alyona Kolomiitseva said:


Do you mean some specific Tournaments, or in general? 

in general,Alyona,in any tournament rewards are too small and there is no reason to play any tournament.i skip almost every other tournament,because we loose troops all the time and rewards are cheap.i'v posted for small rewards few times,you or delete my post because i'm violator of something,or your answer is :its all ok,just put more money in the game and everything gonna be ok :(

i play game more then 2 years,i know all players who complain on forum,about same things,its not nobs,its high lvl players who play game long as me,if we all saying same thing and complain about same stuff,why cant you ,plarium workers,understand that.what else should we do?to leave game and delete account ,so you can recruit new players and milk them til their wallets are dry?

before your BAD changes of the game,there were pvp tournament every weekend and every other weekend persian tournament,rewards was good,for 10k pvp points it was 480 REGULAR promachos,or 960 thure,now they are not even close on 2.2x reward,thats the problem you dont want to see.why to go to war and kill troops from other players if you gonna loose much more then you will get as reward,what is the point?now you give saris rewards,or imperial promachos,thure,and small number of them,when new tournament show up,i open just to see which troops are on rewards,i see imperial troops,i skip tournament,why?because imperial troops have no value on persians,and thats why a lot players lost all troops they'v builded for months and years,and you Alyona answer to me:every troop have certain value :(  i didnt say that only one time,i said many times,and then some strange players(disguised moderators)answer its not truth,and all players who read that dont know who to believe,and when they loose all army,they understand who is right.I PLAY game every day,i PLAY PERSIANS,you,Alyona and Nikita meteor,DONT PLAY GAME AT ALL,so I KNOW and you DONT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT TROOPS VALUE ON PERSIANS.i am sick and tired of typing and complaining here anymore,it is like talking with the wall,nothing changes,no result,when you loose all players and kill the game,then you will understand but its gonna be too late,and SULFUR will explain to you how greed is bad!!!!!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!


Tonaya 


We would like to emphasize that Tournaments should not be considered the only way to receive Units, Crystals, or Items. Tournaments may add a bonus to all actions you perform in the game, such as fighting rivals, capturing Pantheons, attacking and defending Persian Positions, developing your City, etc., but they are only a nice addition. The main purpose of the aforementioned actions is to get Resources from Raids, rewards from PPs, and actively develop your City.

Also, Tournament rewards have always been subject to change. We regularly add some new Items, remove some old ones, change the amounts of things you get, etc. Our developers carefully calculate each Tournament reward emphasizing that rewards are a bonus, not the main point of participating in Tournaments. There are, however, rewards that can only be obtained in Tournaments. Those have a greater value since they are rare, and we do want players to participate in Tournaments to get them.

Plarium Community Manager. Please note that I will be unable to respond to your private messages, review your tickets, or check your account information. All technical issues should be directed to our Support Team at plrm.me/Support_Plarium
UTC +2:00
Hundigo
8 December, 2016, 6:05 AM UTC

Is it for you and the gamedeveloppers really so difficult to understand ?


We can't build army fast enough to fight with others.  Plarium Games says it's all balanced  

You changed the PP's so many times that we can't gain army anymore from it . Plarium Games says it's all balanced 

When we started the game, you had only the 2 tournements, PVP and PVE. You're activity was rewarded because you could gain army at the PP's so you could fight during PVP. It was fun, there was some strategie involved in the way you managed the things on your account , so you was able to participate in the game. And that is also the only strategie you could do on your account. The second strategie you could do was catch the others offence army from a stronger opponent to win the battle 


Plarium Games took both strategies totally out of the game. The only reason they give for it, all is balanced now.  What must players really believe from Plarium Games ?  First it was that the game was already balanced at the start of the game, and during the game self you changed all the stuff and put such amount of new things in the game, and that all with the same excuses that it's all for the balance of the game 

Plarium Games took out the ability for us to gain army at the PP's. Plarium Games took out the ability to gain army at the PVE quests. And at the same time you raised the amount of quests where we should fight others.  How is that ever balanced ? 

I give you a second example; Your second you tube with Q&A.  Big show from Plarium Games side, but it had not even one decent answer about the game self. I really laughed when the Dataanalyst showed up. With the big smile she explained that Plarium Games had analyzed the activity on the servers and Plarium Games came up with a totall new feature, you could see the troopunits movement on the map. Big new feature that would change the game totally with much more fun for the players. There where a few phonecalls with players in the game. Their answer was all the same;Not at all a good feature, and with the explanation that they could see the big picture of the game and the abuse of it and all the negative result of it.  Plarium Games never could see it. The result was that even during the duration of the presentation, Plarium Games had to trow their plans in the trashcan


   You have put all these new features in the game, but  it is only a gold version of simcity.  There is only 1 and reallly only 1 key element in the game that keeps the players in the game. And that is the ability to protect your troops in the acropolis. That's the only thing in the game that keeps the players in the game. And Plarium Games extended that feature with all other features , but all with the same result. Protection shield: no losses from incoming attacks. Relocation pools, auto unit hiders and so on. 

At the same time, and it started actually with this one. You took the ability out of the game  to cap the forces with the grainconsumption. That feature was only to stimulate more income from Plarium Games. No limitations in the game anymore  to buy or revive units. 


And the only thing what Plarium Games can do , to at least keep some activity in the game is putting new quests in the game. The Phanteom massacre and the coalition capitol flag quest. To force activity in the game. But when you look at it, it's only for a short period of time.  Players event bother anymore when they have Phanteoms or a coalition capitol. And the ones that still have them, they didn't played for it, they just bought them. And if that's instantly or over time, it's just the same. There's no one  that has them that can say they never spend a dollar or euro on the game. They have spend huge amounts on the game and that's the only reason they could achieve it. And when they have been wiped out on these locations ? Well they simply go on without them and play the gold version of simcity.

    

That's the only key element in the game that players has that keeps them in the game. Your account on the server is your account and no one else in the game can destroy your account in the game . You can protect your army if you wish ( so not use them ), they can't take all the resources out of your city and when they siege you, you still have the ability to play and to do all the actions you wish.

UTC +0:00
Alyona Kolomiitseva
Community Manager
8 December, 2016, 12:36 PM UTC
Hundigo, the game evolves, and so do our players. Changes are inevitable. I'm sure that you enjoy the new game features.
Plarium Community Manager. Please note that I will be unable to respond to your private messages, review your tickets, or check your account information. All technical issues should be directed to our Support Team at plrm.me/Support_Plarium
UTC +2:00
Hundigo
8 December, 2016, 4:26 PM UTC

the only new game feature that I really would like is the 'messages bug'   

It's about 6 months we have it now. If the dev's of Plarium Games shall implement the new features you are refering to now Alyona in also that timeframe , then at least we still have something to look forward  

And if you really can count? We had in that timeframe of the messages bug already 37 new packages offers, with a totally different outlook of it      

 I really start to think that we have to buy your slaved dev's free. I have no other reasons why all these packages shows up.       
UTC +0:00
Alyona Kolomiitseva
Community Manager
9 December, 2016, 11:02 AM UTC
Hundigo said:

the only new game feature that I really would like is the 'messages bug'   

It's about 6 months we have it now. If the dev's of Plarium Games shall implement the new features you are refering to now Alyona in also that timeframe , then at least we still have something to look forward  

And if you really can count? We had in that timeframe of the messages bug already 37 new packages offers, with a totally different outlook of it      

 I really start to think that we have to buy your slaved dev's free. I have no other reasons why all these packages shows up.       
Special Offers are available for all players, Hundigo)
Plarium Community Manager. Please note that I will be unable to respond to your private messages, review your tickets, or check your account information. All technical issues should be directed to our Support Team at plrm.me/Support_Plarium
UTC +2:00
Hundigo
9 December, 2016, 1:46 PM UTC

I'm pretty sure that Plarium Games send these Special Offers around to all the players. 


But I think there must be a corelation between all the new packages offers and the fake messages and reports bug. To inform the players that it's all fake. I think it's kind of a strike from your dev's team 

.  Probably to do with what they may do and not do. Probably your dev's team is protesting 

     All the new ideas they self and the players has to make the game more joyable and playable are refused by Plarium Games. Probably the only thing what is accepted by Plarium Games is that they may write "special offers deals" and "new packages deals" to sqeeze more money out of the players and never any good new feature for the game. 

   And so even the dev's protest against it , but they do it on their way and with their skills   and that is with a "bug"  Probably let's return the favor to Plarium Games self, because everyone complaints about it and Plarium Games self can't solve it          

It's a very smart move from the developpers team 
    
UTC +0:00
Alyona Kolomiitseva
Community Manager
12 December, 2016, 11:46 AM UTC
Hundigo, our developers always do their best to improve the game. And the good news is that you can help them! You just need to submit your suggestions on Forum in Your Suggestions thread :)
Plarium Community Manager. Please note that I will be unable to respond to your private messages, review your tickets, or check your account information. All technical issues should be directed to our Support Team at plrm.me/Support_Plarium
UTC +2:00
Tonaya
14 December, 2016, 10:42 AM UTC

i agree with all what Hundigo said on last 2 posts.

1.with so many tournaments now,we simply dont have time to build troops for any of them.(one of the reasons why i ask to speed up troops build time for double,Alyona answered DECLINED)

Alyona said:We would like to emphasize that Tournaments should not be considered the only way to receive Units, Crystals, or Items. Tournaments may add a bonus to all actions you perform in the game, such as fighting rivals, capturing Pantheons, attacking and defending Persian Positions, developing your City, etc., but they are only a nice addition. The main purpose of the aforementioned actions is to get Resources from Raids, rewards from PPs, and actively develop your City.

1.what crystals you are talking about?

2.for all others you said,we need troops to participate on capturing pantheons,capital,PP....we cant play if we dont have troops,right?

players dont have troops because you changed pp system,and nikita meteor said no more cheating with 1 bar strategy it is better to play from one hit....some players listened to nikita and they lost all troops on pp,i'v msged all my members NOT TO PLAY FROM 1 HIT OR THEY WILL LOOSE ALL TROOPS!who listened to me,have army,who didnt he dont have.btw if nikita played more then 20 pp in her/his life,i will take my 38 special and shot myself!

what is result of nikita's smart words to play from 1 hit=players dont have any more troops.what can player do when he dont have any troops?he can raid for resources with swords?that is fun?he can build troops again,how much time needed to build 100 macs for raid?do you know,Alyona?no,you dont know,because you dont play game.Player can participate in some tournaments to collect some troops from rewards and to try to get his troops back from pp.IF YOU GIVE IMPERIAL TROOPS as rewards from tournaments,it is impossible,because IMPERIAL TROOPS HAVE NO VALUE on PP because they are not made with RESOURCES  and they dont fill the bank on PP.on PP its all about how much you are in with RESOURCES and when you are IN enough,you get payout.loosing imperial troops  on pp is useless.

and of course,there are one easy way out,put money in game and REVIVE troops you've lost on PP,right?

did you,Alyona,ever looked on some player graveyard?how much drachmas is needed to revive troops you lost on PP on 75% discount?

NO,you didnt.why?because you,Alyona,dont play game at all and you dont play persians.

amount of drachmas needed to revive troops from graveyard after playing PP from 1 hit,like smart nikita said,is like brand new car.

so what we should do?to put money in game and not to eat for 1 month?

interesting is,that all changes plarium made in last 1 year or so,is to players loose their troops faster,and because of SLOW build time,only solution is to REVIVE with real MONEY(1 new car=troops are alive again).

and with this pantheon massacre and capital flag tournament its even worst,and finally some blind people can see what is your BALANCE in game.BALANCE=MONEY.

FUN does not exist ANYMORE in this game.

i'v just calculated today,where i am in bank on PP,and it makes me SICK!! 

i'v burned 83.584.376

=83.5 million in resources,for last 2 months or more,only building high cost troops

i need to burn more 86.374.045=86 million in resources

and then to try for payout.

btw,everything in my academy(troops speed time)is on maximum!

do you,Alyona,know how much time is needed to build troops worth 86 million in resources?

i dont know either,but around 3 months or more,raiding every day,all raids,and only build,and of course if someone dont kill me in the mean time.

does it looks like FUN,Alyona?

more fun is to argue here on forum with you >:(

there it is,i try to plastic explain to you,Alyona,what is the problem with this game,and if all ,2 years players,80-100 lvl players,telling you, and other moderators, few months same things,same problems,same suggestions...few months! and you,Alyona and other moderators,DECLINED 99% of those suggestions,and you give no explanation then famous game BALANCE.

i think,or it is something wrong with your game developers(not listening to costumers) or it is simply plariums goal in this game GIVE US MORE MONEY.i think its 2nd reason,you are not stupid there.

you did apply 1 of my suggestions,troops from capital to return to acropolis ,but you didnt implement it in game and that was 2,3 months ago!

WHEN ITS GONNA HAPPEN,ALYONA?

you cant disable ghost msgs and reports 2,3 months! WHY? WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOUR SMART DEVELOPERS?

i stil didnt get answer,WHY in TOTAL DOMINATION relocation pools cost 700 drachmas and discount on wheel of fortune goes to 70%,and here in sparta everything cost so much?

and just to show you how Tonaya read you like open book,i'm gonna tell you,Alyona,what you will do next,with my post

this time you wont delete my post,you gonna skip 70% of my words,and just answer what you want,why?because you can :D

i hope i didnt violate something this time,as you can see i try to behave,but it is stronger then me and i must give you one great idea,if problem is not in you,Alyona,then in your game developers or your 6 greedy bosses(funny is that all 6 bosses is from one special country,maybe there is that problem with greed? ) 

maybe if your game developers take those crystals(which i dont know what they are,but i assume they are sharp)and all those flags,from capital massacre,if they stick them there where sun dont shine,maybe they will understand it all and start to listen to costumers and start to do their job

ps.i didnt use single rude word and i didnt violate nothing,so,please ,mighty Alyona,dont delete my post,read it 2 times if you needed and answer to me for all i just ask and said

you know Tonaya love you,just my love to you Alyona is weird 


Tonaya 

UTC +0:00
Alyona Kolomiitseva
Community Manager
15 December, 2016, 12:42 PM UTC

Tonaya said:



1.what crystals you are talking about?

2.for all others you said,we need troops to participate on capturing pantheons,capital,PP....we cant play if we dont have troops,right?

3. did you,Alyona,ever looked on some player graveyard?how much drachmas is needed to revive troops you lost on PP on 75% discount?

4. and with this pantheon massacre and capital flag tournament its even worst,and finally some blind people can see what is your BALANCE in game.BALANCE=MONEY.

FUN does not exist ANYMORE in this game.

5) you did apply 1 of my suggestions,troops from capital to return to acropolis ,but you didnt implement it in game and that was 2,3 months ago!

WHEN ITS GONNA HAPPEN,ALYONA?

6) you cant disable ghost msgs and reports 2,3 months! WHY? WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOUR SMART DEVELOPERS?

7) i stil didnt get answer,WHY in TOTAL DOMINATION relocation pools cost 700 drachmas and discount on wheel of fortune goes to 70%,and here in sparta everything cost so much?


Tonaya 

1) Drachmas, sorry :)

2) Right, you can't attack anything without Units. But the good news is that you can a) build them, b) get them as the reward for quests and Achievements, c) Get them from Tournaments, d) Buy them with Drachmas that can be received in Tournaments, Quests, Achievements, Rankings, Emporia (yeah, I know you don't like them much, we're working on that part).

3) Sure I did. The numbers for some players are incredible. However, it's not necessary to revive all of your lost Units. You can always choose the strategy that is the best for you - either train Units, or revive, or receive them as a reward for your game activities.

4) Too bad that you feel that way, Tonaya. Our new Tournaments were created to allow players participate in new kinds of game activities, and do it together with their Coalition members. 

5) I don't have this answer, unfortunately. Development of each feature takes time. Please be patient.

6) Our devs are working on a fix. As soon as it's ready, it will be implemented.

7) Different games have different economy. It's normal that some prices are different in different games. 

Plarium Community Manager. Please note that I will be unable to respond to your private messages, review your tickets, or check your account information. All technical issues should be directed to our Support Team at plrm.me/Support_Plarium
UTC +2:00
Tonaya
17 December, 2016, 4:58 AM UTC

Alyona Kolomiitseva said:


Tonaya said:



1.what crystals you are talking about?

2.for all others you said,we need troops to participate on capturing pantheons,capital,PP....we cant play if we dont have troops,right?

3. did you,Alyona,ever looked on some player graveyard?how much drachmas is needed to revive troops you lost on PP on 75% discount?

4. and with this pantheon massacre and capital flag tournament its even worst,and finally some blind people can see what is your BALANCE in game.BALANCE=MONEY.

FUN does not exist ANYMORE in this game.

5) you did apply 1 of my suggestions,troops from capital to return to acropolis ,but you didnt implement it in game and that was 2,3 months ago!

WHEN ITS GONNA HAPPEN,ALYONA?

6) you cant disable ghost msgs and reports 2,3 months! WHY? WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOUR SMART DEVELOPERS?

7) i stil didnt get answer,WHY in TOTAL DOMINATION relocation pools cost 700 drachmas and discount on wheel of fortune goes to 70%,and here in sparta everything cost so much?


Tonaya 

1) Drachmas, sorry :)

2) Right, you can't attack anything without Units. But the good news is that you can a) build them, b) get them as the reward for quests and Achievements, c) Get them from Tournaments, d) Buy them with Drachmas that can be received in Tournaments, Quests, Achievements, Rankings, Emporia (yeah, I know you don't like them much, we're working on that part).

3) Sure I did. The numbers for some players are incredible. However, it's not necessary to revive all of your lost Units. You can always choose the strategy that is the best for you - either train Units, or revive, or receive them as a reward for your game activities.

4) Too bad that you feel that way, Tonaya. Our new Tournaments were created to allow players participate in new kinds of game activities, and do it together with their Coalition members. 

5) I don't have this answer, unfortunately. Development of each feature takes time. Please be patient.

6) Our devs are working on a fix. As soon as it's ready, it will be implemented.

7) Different games have different economy. It's normal that some prices are different in different games. 

Alyona,i play game more then 2 years and i'm a hegemon,i know all about game and you explaining to me like i dont know anything ^^


Tonaya
UTC +0:00
Tonaya
17 December, 2016, 5:02 AM UTC

Alyona Kolomiitseva said:


Hundigo, the game evolves, and so do our players. Changes are inevitable. I'm sure that you enjoy the new game features.

Alyona,to evolve is when monkey evolve to a man,and with your game changing its the opposite,you want from us to go up on trees again and to eat bananas,but we'v been there and now we are down on the ground^^change game in different direction,from worst to better,not the other way around


Tonaya

UTC +0:00
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