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Really need some help with my early/mid game lineup

Really need some help with my early/mid game lineup

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Jul 4, 2022, 02:3407/04/22
06/16/22
201

Really need some help with my early/mid game lineup

Hey  guys,  fairly  new  to  the  game  (Day  21)  and  I've  hit  some  pretty  successful  milestones  for  myself  but  I'm  struggling  now  that  I'm  getting  some  new  additions  in  my  team.

I've  been  basically  using  Kael,  Warmaiden,  Deliana,  Spirithost  as  my  main  team  composition  for  everything.  When  there  are  5  slots  available  I'll  add  in  Diabolist.  Everything  has  gone  fairly  smooth  actually  and  now  that  I  have  Kael  to  60  I  can  comfortably  beat  some  early  mid  game  content.

Here  is  now  where  I'm  having  some  difficulty  in  my  team  comp.  I  just  got  Golgorab,  Apothecary,  Uugo,  Kurzad  Deepheart  and  Soulbond  Bowyer  all  within  the  past  week.  I  actually  brought  Kurzad  and  Soulbond  to  50  as  I  got  them  the  earliest  and  I  heard  they  were  very  strong  rares.  Then,  just  after  that  I  got  Apothecary  followed  by  Uugo  and  Gorgorab.

Am  I  overthinking  this?  Does  Golgorab  just  beat  out  Spirithost  hands  down?  Does  Uugo  replace  my  50  Warmaiden?  Does  Apothecary  just  get  inserted  into  my  starting  lineup?  The  large  thing  I  see  is  that  all  those  champs  are  magic  based  and  so  is  Kael,  so  I  would  have  a  4  magic  champ  core?

I'm  struggling  how  to  proceed  with  some  of  the  champions  I  got  and  who  to  prioritize  as  my  next  60.  Would  really  appreciate  some  help    

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Jul 4, 2022, 03:1807/04/22
06/25/20
6309

The short answer to all of your questions is basically - yes.

The only one which needs a bit of elaboration is Apoth. I'm not completely sure she fits into your team, given you already have Gorg and Uugo. I think your core dungeon team will be Gorg, Uugo, Deliana, Kael, and a nuker, which you don't really have any great options for yet. I'd stop wasting time iwth Kurzad and Soulbond, they won't really get you far. For now I'd fill the 5th spot with whoever your best champ is, and wait for someone better.

Is Aleksander still available as a freebie champ? I forget. If he is, he'll be great for that 5th spot. If not, the next guaranteed champ you can fill the spot with will likely be Dark Elhain, who does retain value later in the game for arena.

Jul 4, 2022, 03:2007/04/22
Jul 4, 2022, 03:21(edited)
06/16/22
201

Isnt  Apoth  a  guy?  Can  you  also  explain  why  he  doesn't  fit  in?  I  thought  that  the  boosted  turn  meter  and  increase  speed  is  just  great  to  always  have?  

Kael  is  my  current  nuker  -  is  he  not  nuker  enough?  Hes  by  a  far  margin  my  hardest  hitting  champ    

harleQuinnModerator
Jul 4, 2022, 03:5307/04/22
02/24/19
7344

Uugo would be excellent even as a Legendary. She's an aboslutely amazing champ.

A great main team is Gogorab, Uugo, Deliana and Kael.... just like Krama recommended. I think Apothecary is a good 5th champ, boosting and healing the team. Deliana can hit okay as an HP champ. :)

harleQuinnModerator
Jul 4, 2022, 03:5407/04/22
02/24/19
7344

If you'd like you can post your full roster and we could see if you have some sneaky low key awesome champs, like a Coffin Smasher or several others....

Jul 4, 2022, 04:0807/04/22
06/16/22
201

Heres  the  team  roster!

i


Jul 4, 2022, 04:1007/04/22
06/16/22
201

@harleQuinn can you also explain why Kurzad or Soulbond are maybe not higher prioirty?  I  heard  they  are  like  A+  tier  rare  champs close  to  S  tier  with  Apoth?  Again  thats  just  a  rare  champ  tierlist  tho    

Jul 4, 2022, 10:0107/04/22
07/08/19
934
kmanmott

@harleQuinn can you also explain why Kurzad or Soulbond are maybe not higher prioirty?  I  heard  they  are  like  A+  tier  rare  champs close  to  S  tier  with  Apoth?  Again  thats  just  a  rare  champ  tierlist  tho    

even the best rare champs aren't really on par with their epic or lego counterparts. it sounds like you're going off ayumi's list, so let's look at those.

we'll start with warmaiden. she certainly is a good champion and given how useful AoE def down is, she can find a place in every team. she's also easy for all players to get and book since she's farmable. beyond that though, she really brings nothing to the table. her other abilities aren't anything special and her stats are fairly mediocre (a common problem for rare and below champions. their base stats just aren't high enough to be competitive in the long term). typically a player will only use her until they get a better def down champion and you already have 2.

athel and apothecary are similar. athel's weaken debuff can be helpful and her 3 hit a1 is great against fire knight, but beyond that she's just a damage source and one who is easily outpaced by better champions. apothecary is a little better due to the utility he brings to your team, but there's still nothing that can't be easily replaced by other champions.

coldheart is a bit of an exception to this rule and is argueably the only rare champ in the game to remain viable even into lategame (outside of specialized areas like secret rooms). this is mainly due to there being fewer than 10 champions in the game whose damage scales based on enemy max hp, making her a3 much more difficult to replace. even then though, she's a bit of a seesaw champ—great in some areas, terrible in others—whereas most S rank epic or legendary champs will be strong everywhere.

regarding the champions you specifically mentioned, both have their uses but aren't the best investment of resources for you at the moment. kurzad offers an increase accuracy buff, which is also quite rare, but nothing else in his kit is particularly useful and increase accuracy isn't one that's likely to be essential all that often. soulbond is honestly a pretty good champion, but i can see a number of champions in your collection who you'll end up getting far more use out of in the long term, so she's not really a priority at the moment. i would consider gorgorab, uugo, delinia, apothecary, and fodbar much more important than soulbond and by the time you build them all, you'll likely have gotten other champions who are also more important than her. you might end up bringing her to rank 6 eventually, but it likely won't be for a long time, when you're building champions for doom tower or faction wars specifically.

to answer your other question, no, kael isn't really the best nuker. the reason he hits harder than your other champs is partly because he's your only rank 6, which is a world of difference from rank 5, and partly because you have zero good damage dealers at the moment.

Jul 4, 2022, 14:0907/04/22
06/16/22
201

Thanks  for  the  explanation  on  some  of  that.  How  about  Uugo  and  Golgorab's  viability  later  for  me?  Are  they  worth  it  to  invest  epic  books  in  or  should  I  save  for  a  better  priority?  


Also  what  should  I  be  doing  when  I  get  High  Khatun  in  a  couple  days?  Does  she  outclass  Apothecary  by  a  lot  or  how  do  you  see  her  in  my  lineup?  

Jul 4, 2022, 14:1607/04/22
Jul 4, 2022, 14:17(edited)
06/25/20
6309
kmanmott

Thanks  for  the  explanation  on  some  of  that.  How  about  Uugo  and  Golgorab's  viability  later  for  me?  Are  they  worth  it  to  invest  epic  books  in  or  should  I  save  for  a  better  priority?  


Also  what  should  I  be  doing  when  I  get  High  Khatun  in  a  couple  days?  Does  she  outclass  Apothecary  by  a  lot  or  how  do  you  see  her  in  my  lineup?  

Uugo will retain value well into endgame, since her block buffs A2 is pretty unique. Gorg, on the other hand, I dropped pretty quickly after getting Arbiter, and I only use him now in Faction Wars - and even there, I pretty much only use him for farming FW21. That said - yes, book them both. You need to get their cooldowns down, or their value drops precipitously.

Khatun probably won't see any use for your team either. Gorg pretty much supercedes her. Again, she'll have value in FW, and she may have value in specific other areas, but the thing you have to remember is - support champs rarely contribute much for damage, so you typically can't run more than two on a team without really cutting back on how fast you clear the dungeons. You already have two, arguably three if you consider Deliana to be support - so adding a fourth would just make your clears take 5+ minutes, which might seem okay for now, but when you realise that you'll be doing literally millions of these dungeon runs, the time really adds up.

Jul 4, 2022, 14:3007/04/22
08/08/20
29

Hey, Welcome to the game!

You have another nice option there that can do a ton of work for an account in your stage of growth.

Its Armiger, I know, he looks like an uncommon, but he is really an epic in disguise. Not joking, he is really, really good against most dungeon bosses. (Not for dragon though)

You shouldnt worry about wasting resources on leveling an uncommon either. Once he starts to fall off your normal dungeon teams, put him in a destroy set and see him get a second life in your scarab king team. Even on doomtower hard. 

I still use him there. Interestingly enough with Siegehulk, who you also have.

Although In my case that came from a strange coincidence where I had a lot of Ogryn bloodshield accessories. But not going to lie, they work well enough together.

harleQuinnModerator
Jul 4, 2022, 14:4607/04/22
02/24/19
7344
Carpe_Piscis

even the best rare champs aren't really on par with their epic or lego counterparts. it sounds like you're going off ayumi's list, so let's look at those.

we'll start with warmaiden. she certainly is a good champion and given how useful AoE def down is, she can find a place in every team. she's also easy for all players to get and book since she's farmable. beyond that though, she really brings nothing to the table. her other abilities aren't anything special and her stats are fairly mediocre (a common problem for rare and below champions. their base stats just aren't high enough to be competitive in the long term). typically a player will only use her until they get a better def down champion and you already have 2.

athel and apothecary are similar. athel's weaken debuff can be helpful and her 3 hit a1 is great against fire knight, but beyond that she's just a damage source and one who is easily outpaced by better champions. apothecary is a little better due to the utility he brings to your team, but there's still nothing that can't be easily replaced by other champions.

coldheart is a bit of an exception to this rule and is argueably the only rare champ in the game to remain viable even into lategame (outside of specialized areas like secret rooms). this is mainly due to there being fewer than 10 champions in the game whose damage scales based on enemy max hp, making her a3 much more difficult to replace. even then though, she's a bit of a seesaw champ—great in some areas, terrible in others—whereas most S rank epic or legendary champs will be strong everywhere.

regarding the champions you specifically mentioned, both have their uses but aren't the best investment of resources for you at the moment. kurzad offers an increase accuracy buff, which is also quite rare, but nothing else in his kit is particularly useful and increase accuracy isn't one that's likely to be essential all that often. soulbond is honestly a pretty good champion, but i can see a number of champions in your collection who you'll end up getting far more use out of in the long term, so she's not really a priority at the moment. i would consider gorgorab, uugo, delinia, apothecary, and fodbar much more important than soulbond and by the time you build them all, you'll likely have gotten other champions who are also more important than her. you might end up bringing her to rank 6 eventually, but it likely won't be for a long time, when you're building champions for doom tower or faction wars specifically.

to answer your other question, no, kael isn't really the best nuker. the reason he hits harder than your other champs is partly because he's your only rank 6, which is a world of difference from rank 5, and partly because you have zero good damage dealers at the moment.

Love this post as to why we focus on Epic and Legendary champions predominantly, even if a rare is "rated well"

I find the exceptions to be Apothecary, Coldheart, Renegade and for me, Coffin Smasher. Apothecary brings TM fill, speed boost and healing. Coldheart is enemy max HP WITH her turn meter kill, which makes it the best max HP skill in many areas. Renegade resets other champions skills, which is important as you pull champs that are doing thing like Coldheart (MAX HP, TM decrease, etc), although she is replaced by the legendary Kymar. Coffin Smasher is an HP based HP burner with a passive that decreases damage from enemy AoEs, has a Decrease Attack A1 and a 3 hitter for FK.

Warmaiden, Soulbond and Kurzad are, as Carpe Pisces intimated, just stopgap champs while you wait for a better Epic or Legendary. :)

harleQuinnModerator
Jul 4, 2022, 14:5207/04/22
02/24/19
7344
kmanmott

Heres  the  team  roster!

i


Great roster. What a nice start to the game. You have pulled some very nice champs, starting especially with Uugo, who is an incredible debuffer who is great until the latest of late endgames.

A great main team is Gogorab, Uugo, Deliana, Kael and Siegehulk.

We've already chatted about why Gogo and Uugo are excellent. So lets briefly mention why I love Siegehulk. He hits incredibly hard becuase he self buffs before his AoE, he has strong multipliers and has some great Increase Crit buffs for your team.

Video of Siegehulk from HH 

You won't even need to build him with a bunch of Accuracy, thanks to having an Uugo, you can just build him with damage. 


After I built Gogorab, Uugo, Deliana and Siegehulk, I would look at Armiger at my 6th champ. He's a little tougher to gear, cause while a top 50 champ, his base stats are lower due to being an uncommon champ.

Jul 4, 2022, 15:0207/04/22
06/16/22
201

Thanks  so  much!  I'm  also  having  a  little  bit  of  problems  with  my  gearing  priorities.  I  previously  had  Kael  around  150  and  Warmaiden  and  Spirithost  would  attack  just  before  him  in  Arena  specifically  to  apply  their  debuffs  and  buffs.  I  came  into  some  near  gear  and  now  Kael  is  sitting  at  192  and  pretty  much  has  the  highest  speed  on  my  team  by  a  long  shot.  Should  i  be  removing  his  speed  boots  so  that  my  buffers  /  debuffers  go  sooner  than  him,  or  should  I  keep  his  speed  high  for  more  turns  in  dungeons,  etc    

harleQuinnModerator
Jul 4, 2022, 15:0607/04/22
02/24/19
7344
kmanmott

Thanks  so  much!  I'm  also  having  a  little  bit  of  problems  with  my  gearing  priorities.  I  previously  had  Kael  around  150  and  Warmaiden  and  Spirithost  would  attack  just  before  him  in  Arena  specifically  to  apply  their  debuffs  and  buffs.  I  came  into  some  near  gear  and  now  Kael  is  sitting  at  192  and  pretty  much  has  the  highest  speed  on  my  team  by  a  long  shot.  Should  i  be  removing  his  speed  boots  so  that  my  buffers  /  debuffers  go  sooner  than  him,  or  should  I  keep  his  speed  high  for  more  turns  in  dungeons,  etc    

You should build Uugo and speed her up faster. [And speed up any debuffers you use in the meanwhile :) ]

Although you could maybe slow Kael down to 175 to make him hit harder though. Every speed substat roll you give up could be an Atk% roll or a Crit Damager roll.

Jul 4, 2022, 15:1607/04/22
06/16/22
201

Oh  also,  hows  Urticata  for  clan  boss?  I  notice  she  has  a  poison  sensitivty  and  an  increase  poison  dmg  to  5% .  Does  she  synergize  well  with  Kael?  

Jul 4, 2022, 15:1907/04/22
06/16/22
201

Oh...and  sorry  I'm  rambling  (so  much  to  find  out),  but  should  I  be  keeping  any  of  the  lower  rares  I  have  for  faction  wars  (like  Berseker,  Grappler,  Tigersoul,  Hexweaver,  Bogwalker,  Deathchanter  or  Myrmidon)  

harleQuinnModerator
Jul 4, 2022, 15:4507/04/22
02/24/19
7344
kmanmott

Oh  also,  hows  Urticata  for  clan  boss?  I  notice  she  has  a  poison  sensitivty  and  an  increase  poison  dmg  to  5% .  Does  she  synergize  well  with  Kael?  

The best advice I can give you is to focus on making that first team of 60s we are recommending. When all of those champs are fully ascended, fully ranked, and you are booking their skills, then it is time to focus on dungeon farming up to Dragon 20, and pushing Spider for accessories for your squad.

Dragon 20 and Spider 16-20 are the key to progression out of early game.

After THAT we start looking at champions that are helpful specifically in Clan Boss. And by the time you reach that point, likely Urticata as a fifth CB champ is no longer a question, since you'll have a bunch of other champs at that point, some better for CB.

Jul 4, 2022, 15:5307/04/22
06/16/22
201
harleQuinn

The best advice I can give you is to focus on making that first team of 60s we are recommending. When all of those champs are fully ascended, fully ranked, and you are booking their skills, then it is time to focus on dungeon farming up to Dragon 20, and pushing Spider for accessories for your squad.

Dragon 20 and Spider 16-20 are the key to progression out of early game.

After THAT we start looking at champions that are helpful specifically in Clan Boss. And by the time you reach that point, likely Urticata as a fifth CB champ is no longer a question, since you'll have a bunch of other champs at that point, some better for CB.

Gotcha!  So  should  be  general  priority  be  just  farm  12-3  on  Brutal  for  fodder?  

harleQuinnModerator
Jul 4, 2022, 16:1507/04/22
02/24/19
7344
kmanmott

Gotcha!  So  should  be  general  priority  be  just  farm  12-3  on  Brutal  for  fodder?  

Exactly so. Get to it! lol :)