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How do speed and turnmeter actually work exactly?

How do speed and turnmeter actually work exactly?

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Mar 20, 2022, 09:3803/20/22
10/15/20
2046

How do speed and turnmeter actually work exactly?

Untill today, I thought the turnmeter works in the following way: the game uses so-called ticks to calculate rounds, after every tick the tm is filled according to the champs speed. A tm-boost from a skill fills the tm for the skills ammount immediately. So, for example, if your fastest champ is Arbiter and has her turn, she can fill the tm of all allies by 30%. But if the tm of the allies is not at 100% with this fill yet, they have to reach 100% with their speed during the following ticks as normal.  /edit: Problem is something else, see below.

That leads to the conclusion, that using a champ as fastest champ that provides a speed buff on top of a tm-fill will lower the speed requirement of the second fastest champ in your team. The creators of third party programms like arena speed calculators seem to have the same thoughts, as the following screenshots show.


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Arbiter as fastest champ with 305 speed (tm-fill of 30%), speed requirement for the second fastest champ 233.11, while Lyssandra as fastest champ (tm-fill of 30% AND speed buff), with the exact same speed as Arbiter in the other example, will lead to a speed req for the second fastest champ of only 220.44.

Well, at least the guys making speed calculators and I (and probably some other players) thought it works like that untill today. But saying it works like that is now considered as factually incorrect, lack of understanding the game theory, limited understanding of the game and, if you persevere on tm working like this with posting the above screenhots as proof, may lead to a ban.

So, ok, I admit, I have a limited understanding of the game, I don't know how the tm-bar in this game works. I don't understand why the arena calculator gives a lower speed for the second member of your team depending on the fact if Arbiter or Lyssandra are the fastest champ (of course Arbiter will allways be the team leader for her stronger aura, even if Lyss is faster). Arbiter and Lyssandra have the exact same speed. They give the exact same tm-boost. The possible tm-reduce from Lyss has no influence (Accuracy set to 0 in the calculator, so it doesn't land). The only difference between them is the speed buff Lyssandra gives.

I ask, because in all teams with double tm boost I use, for example in tag arena, I try to make champs with speed buff on top of tm-fill (like Apo) to be faster than champs without speed buff (like Gorgorab).

Why does the calculator say Arbiter - Lyssandra needs more speed on champ no. 2 than Lyssandra - Arbiter? Is the calculator wrong?




/edit: Thinking about the problem again, I made a mistake in describing it above. It has nothing to do with a tm-bar not at 100% yet. The problem is, that the game calculates speed and tm-filling even above 100%.

For example: My Arbiter goes first with 305 speed. The enemy Arbiter is slightly slower (304 speed), so her tm will be at 99% when my Arbiter reaches 100%. My Arbiter fills the tm-bar of my Lyss, who had (just for example) 70% before and 100% after the filling. 

End of turn for my Arbiter, but my Lyss, even with 100% tm-bar, doesn't go immediately. The game still has at least one tick between the turns. The tm-bars of my Lyss and the enemy Arbiter and all other champs still get filled according to their speed, it fills above 100% and who has more tm-bar when the tick is over will take the next turn. If my Lyss is to slow, she will end up at 105% tm-bar after the tick, but the enemy Arbiter will end up at 106% tm-bar, so she will cut in.

That can explain the different speed requirements for champ no. 2 according to Arbiter or Lyssandra as fastest champ, that can explain the outcome of the calculator. 

But if so, why is it called lack of understanding the game and leads to a ban?

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Mar 20, 2022, 16:2903/20/22
09/14/19
91

Your analysis is good for fighting PvE - but not so good for PvP.  PvP the turn meter can be more than 100% - which is what determines which player goes first or which player gets "interrupted".  PvE this won't happen.

OpheliaA1Moderator
Mar 20, 2022, 16:3003/20/22
03/11/19
365

Hello skadi

appreciate you observations on speed theory

i will drop two vital materials on this subject 


the official 101 raid series 

<(48) RAID: Shadow Legends | RAID 101 | Turn Meter - YouTube>

the 201 speedology followup

<Speed 201: Applied Speedology I (Speed Mechanisms, Clan Boss Speed-Tuning, Speed Teams and Unkillable) : RaidShadowLegends (reddit.com)>  


the concept you're referring to in you initial question is ''turn metre overflow'' 



as for you last line stating ''But if so, why is it called lack of understanding the game and leads to a ban?''

there is a lack of context to this question, however we will clarify that there is no ban that has ever stemmed from lack of understanding of the game. Members ought to respect the TOS/TOU of the forum.


 


kind regards 


-ophe

Mar 20, 2022, 18:2603/20/22
10/15/20
2046

So, the video you linked just proved, like I suggested, that the speedcalc from Deadwood Jedi is right. The tunrmeter overflow over 100% works roughly like I described. With the same speed on the fastest champ Lyssandra 1st, Arb 2nd needs less speed on the 2nd champ for no enemy cut-in than Arb 1st, Lyssandra 2nd.

So why do you spread the opposite in other threads?


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Making Lyssandra the fastest hero decreases the overall speed for the rest of the team. 100% true, proven by the linked video and the speed calculator. 220.44 is less than 233.11, isn't it?


harleQuinnModerator
Mar 20, 2022, 23:1703/20/22
02/24/19
7309

Hi Skadi. I love the game theory discussion. But it seems you have a major lack of context on the subject of your actual line of questioning, which isn't about speeds at all, is it? It is about moderator decisions.

3. By joining our Forum, users agree NOT to:
3.15 Create posts discussing Forum moderation decisions, such as banning, closing Forum threads, deleting Forum posts / threads, etc. This also includes publicly sharing any private messages from Community Administrators or Moderators.... this type of discussion is strictly prohibited under the Forum rules. 

Moderator actions are not a debate. That is for a moderated person to follow the grievance procedure outlined in the forum rules.

But to give you some very minor context, this is the result of continued 3-year behavior on the forums. No amount of game knowledge, or lack thereof, makes up for insults, flaming, nor trashing members of the community, mod team or otherwise.

Have a good day.

Thread closed due to clear violation of Forum Rules. If you want to actually discuss TM boosting, rather than something else, you are welcome to start a new thread. Perhaps I can ask Ophe to take the time to fully explain TM boosting, and the complexities speed tuning for arena in general, if you actually are interested.

Mar 20, 2022, 23:2503/20/22
Mar 20, 2022, 23:27(edited)
01/04/20
1703

As has already been explained, we never ban for lack of game knowledge and everyone who frequents the forums knows this. 

Both plarium and the mod team have decided that we want to put a stop to the complaints we get from new players who leave the forums because of how they were treated by a user, or users. 

dthorne04Moderator
Mar 20, 2022, 23:3703/20/22
Mar 20, 2022, 23:37(edited)
12/30/20
5458

Just to put a bow on the topic at hand:

It's completely fine to disagree or see things in the game differently than others. Healthy discourse is great. 

It is not fine to do that while being rude, trolling, mocking and being outright disrespectful to other forum members and moderators. That is and has been the issue. 

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