If you put in 1 champ defense and leave it there all the time, you will never make gold4.  Yes you may win every offense battle, but you will lose every defense battle.  That's like trying to fill a bucket with a large hole in the bottom.  Maybe I'm missing something.

I don't understand what you mean when ou say 'fast great hall farming' because everyone will be pushed back at reset each week.  I'm already pushed back at reset each week???

I don't doubt you've made huge improvements in GH, but are you saying that's b/c you only see 1 champ defense?  

Do you currenlty have a 1 champ defense? All the time?  And never put in a real defense?

If you have a 1 champ defense at reset, you will get beat on defense one time and instantly drop to G2.  

Maybe I'm just not understanding what you are trying to say.

I  think  what  he  means  is  if  literally  every  single  raid  player  works  together  to  put  on  one  man  defenses.  Even  if  everyone  were  able  to  do  that  and  agree  to  do  it,  there'll  still  be  people  with  more  time  and  more  gems,  etc,  who  will  win  more  Arena  fights  and  push  others  back  down.

I used 1 champ def to drop a couple tiers and was able to farm more badges that way than if i had stayed at silver IV.  Which is helpful but its not getting me into gold. 

I get what theyre trying to suggest but it only works if a lot of people do it but most will not. This is a nonstarter. Good idea but just not practical.

Nobody wants players catching up to them. I hate to say it but part of arena is keeping others from advancing so you can maintain your position in arena.

I don't understand what you mean when ou say 'fast great hall farming' because everyone will be pushed back at reset each week.  

What he means by "fast great hall farming" is that players could farm medals for great hall fast. 😉

Now average players active fights win/losses ratio is 50% / 50% and defensive fights 50% / 50%.

If everybody would run lvl 1 champ in defense, this ratio would change for all players to active fights 100% / 0% and defensive fights 0% / 100%. 

Still an average of 50% / 50%, but all victories would be from active fights and all losses from defensive fights. As the great hall medals are got only from active fights, players could fill their great hall faster than now.

Of course players with a (now) better performance than 50% / 50% would not benefit from his idea.

the  Reset  is  what  keeps  it  in  check  who  cares  how  many  you  lose.  Because you  would win  every fight.  If  everyone or  even  75%  of  us  did  this.  every  page  you  load  would  look  like  a  bot  page.  You  dont  lose metals  for  losing so  who  cares  how  much  you  lose.  if  each  attack  ends  in  victory then  that's all  that  matters.  The  only  reason it  won't work  is  because most players of  this  game  are competitive  even  when  there  is  nothing to  gain.  if  the  community decided and  the  streamers  presented  and  restated  the  objective that  we  want  gold  4  to  be  where  the  competition begains  and  that  up  untill  that  point  1  champ  defense.  It  would work,  a  rising  tide  lifts  all  ships.  

I don't think it would work for a lot of players even if every one did it.  If I can only play an hour a day, but am attacked 30 times a day, I'll drop a tier every day.  Same thing if I only use my 39 daily free tokens and others buy an extra 100 tokens a day.  

Yes the average win rate will always be 50%/50%.  No matter what.  Every battle has 1 victor and 1 loser.  But if I can only attack 20 times a day, even if I win every fight, but I'm attacked 80 times a day, my personal win rate will only be 20%.  While someone who spends money can easily win 100 fights in one hour, while only losing 10 defense battles during that time.

The idea depends not only on all players participating, it depends on all players fighting the same number of offensive battle each day.

Yes, but you won't get attacked 80 times a day. If everybody would use a single champ defense, the attacks would not (like it is today) concentrate on few weak def teams, but spread equally among the thousands of Raid players. That you drop tier and tier and tier is rather unlikely.

Somebody's going to drop.  The average win rate will always be 50/50 no matter what.  If some are above that, just as many will be below that.  That's the way it is now, that's the way it will always be so long as every battle has one winner and one loser.

You may be able to win all offense battles, that's 39 per day for free.  But the players that spend to buy tokens will be able to play 40 matches every hour, more if they spend for refreshes as well, gaining severaal tiers in a day.  Players could move from S1 to G1 in a week easily.  And that much movement up will have a corresponding movement down.

That downward movement may be spread over more players, but that just means more players will be negatively affected, just to a lesser degree.

You may not drop a tier every day.  But every week you'll drop unless you start playing more offense battles than defense.

So how do I make sure I don't drop a tier immediatly after reset?  I make sure I'm the first one up and I easily beat the first 10 opponents on the list.  I just got a lot of medals and knocked 10 players down a tier.  If 100 players do the same thing, then 1000 players wake up an hour later and find they've dropped a tier.

So let's say we agree to put up a defense just around reset, then take it down.  I already do that, no problem for me.  But how does that help players that are in a tier artifically only because they beat a bunch of 1 champ defenses?  They are going to have to wait 1/2 a day till everyone takes down their defense. By then they will most likely have been hit on defense a few times.

I could be wrong, but I don't see it.  It's a moot point anyway.  No hope of 1000s of raiders agreeing that Wednesday is the middle of the week, much less to try this.

Here  is  where  your  logic  breaks down.  Its  not  50/50.  Each  week  i  get  reset  to  silver 1  and  by  the  end  of  the  week  i  ended  up  somewhere in  gold  1  and  the  only  reason i  dont  go  higher  is  due  to  the  fact  that  because im  one  of  the  few  who  run  a  one  champ  defense every page  i  show  up  on  is guaranteed they  fight  me.  Which  im  fine with.  However if  there  where  more  players  doing  this  i  would  advance farther  if  your  50/50  thought  was  true  which  it  is  not  you  have  to  answer  this :  why  dont  i  stay  where  i  am  placed  at  reset?  You see  my  lose rate  should be  higher than  victory because i  am  one  of  the  few  that  run  single  champ  defense.  If  it  where  50/50  i  would  be  stuck  in  silver  1  and  could  never  leave.  But  each  week  i  push  all  the  way  out.    Before  I  started  this  strat i  was  in  gold  3  push  into  gold  4  each  week.  If  I  switched in  my  defense i  would  be  in  gold  4 again.  but  i  would  be  stuck  not  farming because i  could  not  push  up  and  i  would  not  lose  enough.  Before  I  started  this  I  was  stuck  upgrading a  GH  bonus  once  every week.  Because i  could  not  generat  enough victories.  Sure  i  was  was  in  Gold  4  each  Sunday whoopie  doo!  But  what  was  i  getting out  of  it  four  pcs  of  gear  that  i  sold  each  Monday and  a  blue  shard  if  i  was  lucky.  Check  it  out  I  know  it  wont  ever  happen because nobody wants  to  give  up  their  spot.  Trust  me  I  know  my  buddy sits  it  G4  been  there  for  the  last  6  months  we  both  sat  there.  Two  months  ago  i  said  screw  this  I  want  to  farm.  His  great  hall  is  virtually the  same  mine  is  growing every  other  day.  

it  would be  a  community solution enough  would have  to  do  it  and  it  would  work,  i  know  because it  works  for  me.  The  rates  are  nor  50/50  they  just  are  not.  If  they  were  i  would agree  with  you its  just  that  they  are  not.  If  they  where  i  would  be  stuck  where  i  get  reset.  

I'm not saying your rate is 50/50.  Everyone's rate combined is 50/50 and must be so necessarrily.  If there are 100 battles, then there are 100 wins, and 100 loses.  That will never change.

I  understand what  you  are  saying.   No  advance for  everyone because you  would be  pushing someone else  down as  you  advance.  But  it  doesn't change the  fact  that you  would be  able  to  advance  and  that  everyone could.  As  along  the  way  you  will  gain  metals  which  would  only  help.  you  could  also  control this  a  bit  By  picking the  higher  metal  battles  on  attack understanding  that  the  game  will  not  slot  you  into  those  spots  as  often  as  you  can  fight  it.  (unless  you  have  terrible  RNG)  ask  your  self  this  question G4  allows  5000  at  reset but  you  know  as  a  fact  that  more  than  5000  players  hold  spots  in  gold  G4  during  the  week.  So  who  are  those  players  displacing.  Again  your  argument is  soild  but  in  practice is  not  a  result of  what  you  see  in  the  game.   Stop  a  think  about ,  it  is  a  fact  the  G4  holds  more  players  in  week  than  it  does  at  reset, it  is  not  one  in  one  out.  I  get  your  point  of  the  point  ballance  but  I  just  dont  see  it  in  practical application in  the  game.   it  is  that  you  control how  many points you  earn  while  the  game  determins  where  your  slotted in  defense.  So  its  not  necessarily   1  for  1  

1  victory 1  defeat.  Yes  but  the  point  totals  are  not  equal.

maybe  that  proves  the  existence of  bots  in  the  game.  

I don't get why "it's allways 50/50" should be an argument against Tiny Tin Cans idea. It's a 50/50 among all players right now as well. Like you wrote, that will never change. I allready wrote above:

Still an average of 50% / 50%, but all victories would be from active
fights and all losses from defensive fights. As the great hall medals
are got only from active fights, players could fill their great hall
faster than now. 

Of course it will be a theory forever, no one will practice this. If all other players put in a lvl 1 defense and I don't, I wont get attacked. For me, it will be a 100/100 personal win ratio in that case. Somebody sees this and thinks: wow, great idea, everybody else puts in a lvl 1 defense, but that player didn't, so he wont get attacked and still takes all free victories from active fights. I should use a real def team as well. 

In theory, and if everyone did it, it would make medal farming less painful, but it wouldn't really do much to move people around within the arena when you look at the population as a whole. The distribution of players across the arena tiers is not defined by the wins and losses, but by the points created vs the points destroyed. If you managed to coordinate everyone to stick close to the tier threshold at reset (and avoid attacking others to bring them below the threshold) in order to minimize the point loss at each reset, then it'd change the distribution. The problem there is that you're unlikely to get everyone to cooperate to that degree, and also that in order to work (at least as quickly as people would want it to), you'd have to make certain assumptions about the player base growth rate that may not be entirely realistic.

I  Agree it  will  never  happen.  For  all  of  the  reasons listed above.  Its  just  something to  think  about when  you  claim  your  rewards  for  G4  tomorrow ask  yourself  if  its  worth it  or  would you prefer easy  farming. Like  i  said  just  something to think about.  

most people put in weak defense so they can drop and it offers a lot of easy farming in the higher levels.  some do 1 man for a few days after reset, but since you want to stay in at least g4 to get the most medals, a lot of people just do a gatekeeper defense.  something anyone in g4/g5/plat can easily farm, but also something anyone below will struggle against so they don't drop to hard.

when you get to platinum arena most of those guys have their GH's maxed already so they aren't farming medals, the strategy changes to putting in a different (not neccessarily weak) defense during the week so other players don't learn how to defeat the defense they throw up at reset time when they're really pushing.

there's X amount of players in each rank though, so the top 500 will still be plat, the top however many in g5, and so on and so forth, so if everyone puts in a 1 man defense, it turns into a game of who buys the most arena refills and uses the most tokens during the week to get into g4.  just like how a spider tournament is who spends the most energy to win.

 To the OP… sorry, while in theory this would work, it is never going to happen. It’s like coming up with a plan to end world hunger. 

You’d have better luck getting 10K stray cats to walk in a straight line than to get 10% of MMO players to agree to do the same thing. 

The issue isn't with the Arena or even the current Arena system.  

In every successful MMO game there are people who enjoy the PvP, people who enjoy the PvE, and a few who enjoy both. The way MOST successful MMOs handle this is by creating separation between PvP and PvE. They design their games so that PvE players don't have to participate in PvP to advance and to a lesser extent (once a champion hits max level) it is possible to advance in PvP without heavy participation in PvE (even hard core PvP players will need to do some PvE to generate resources). 

The problem here is that PvP is tied directly to progression and that several bonuses are gated behind a PvP wall, and all gear / upgrades needed for Arena progression are gated behind PvE grinding in dungeons. Raid
forces both types of players to participate in a game mode they don’t enjoy. 

Solutions: 

1. Remove the Arena related quest from the current Progress Mission quest chain. (This is the cause of 99% of online complaints tied to Arena). 

2. Add a second Progress Mission chain that is Arena Focused. Have it offer rewards that are enticing to Arena focused players. 

3. Do one or the other here:  

A.) Untie the Great Hall from Arena. Create a new resource for progressing the Great Hall and remove the Bonuses provided by the Great Hall from Arena combat. Use the current Medals gained in the Arena for purchasing Arena gear with bonuses and stats that are useful in the Arena. 

B.) Do the opposite and make GH bonuses ONLY apply while in the Arena.