Hey Guys,
Trying real hard to move up from Bronze 4 in Arena. Currently using High Katun, Warmaiden, Kael and Valkyrie, but dont seem to be able to move up as easy. I was thinking of using Zargala as my kael is built more for CB than Arena. Do you think Zargala is the change i need? Or is there another Team composition that you think would work better?
Thanks in advance!
Champs below:
You're running a speed nuke team. What's the speed of your team?
Speed nuke teams require two things:
1) Obviously, you need to win the speed race. So the speed of your Khatun is critically important. I would guess you'll need at least 250 speed at your rating.
2) Less obvious is that the rest of your team needs to be fast enough that you can prevent cut-in. What this means is, after your Khatun does her speed boost move, the rest of your team needs to be able to act immediately afterwards.
Valkyrie helps, since she can mess with their turn meter manipulating, and can sometimes let you win fights you'd otherwise lose.
Regarding Zargala vs Kael - Zargala's multiplier on her A3 is significantly lower than that of Kael. Even if all three of her hits crit, she'll still be doing much less damage than Kael will be. She makes up for this with her amazing A2, but that's dependent on you actually getting the kill with it, which may not always be possible. Couple this with the fact that Kael is easier to gear and book, and I'd say you probably should stick with Kael - although if he's geared for CB that may not be the case. You'll have to make that judgement call yourself.
One thing which may help you though is to replace Valkyrie with Apothecary. The idea here is that you get a double speed boost, which lets you make up for having a slower nuker. Then, you can avoid using speed boots on the nuker, and really gear them purely for damage. This also helps if your Khatun is particularly fast. This is sort of the new meta now - almost all teams at higher ranks are running either two speed boosters, or comps that specifically counter those two speed booster teams.
At your level you'll need to be speed tuned. What that means is that the turn meter boost (high khatun gives 15% on her A2 for instance) boost your next character in line enough that they will go before the other team can go. I highly recommend the deadwood jedi site. The calculator looks really intimidating so feel free to ask questions if something doesn't seem to work. Those who have used it for a while might not understand how you don't understand something so simple but feel free to ignore them.
https://www.deadwoodjedi.com/arena-calculator
What is basically important is that the first character boosts the second character who boosts the third character. When you've run out of people who boost turn meter, the rest of the characters will all have to have a speed pretty close to each other. Here is an example:
So I set high khatun as the aura lead which gives everyone 19% on their base speed. I then said she was going to use her A2 (increase speed AND turn meter). I said I had 3 speed sets on her (6 pieces of speed gear) and that I had the lore of steel mastery from the support tree (which boosts base stat set bonuses) and said that the speed that the game shows for her in the tavern is 150. What the calculator shows is that the speed the game shows for Kael would have to be 124.5 for nobody to cut in.
That was a long-winded way of saying that you should probably use 2 turn meter boosters into a defense down champ before your nuker. Early game, it is hard to get the required speeds if you don't do that. That's basically just reiterating what kramaswamy said. If you have apothecary and high khatun, you'll probably want apothecary to be the fastest of the two (but use high khatun's speed aura, meaning you have her in the lead slot on the character select page). High khatun's speed goes up to 104 AFTER you get her to 6 stars AND ascend her to 6 stars. Your apothecary will have a base speed of 106 already.
You're running a speed nuke team. What's the speed of your team?
Speed nuke teams require two things:
1) Obviously, you need to win the speed race. So the speed of your Khatun is critically important. I would guess you'll need at least 250 speed at your rating.
2) Less obvious is that the rest of your team needs to be fast enough that you can prevent cut-in. What this means is, after your Khatun does her speed boost move, the rest of your team needs to be able to act immediately afterwards.
Valkyrie helps, since she can mess with their turn meter manipulating, and can sometimes let you win fights you'd otherwise lose.
Regarding Zargala vs Kael - Zargala's multiplier on her A3 is significantly lower than that of Kael. Even if all three of her hits crit, she'll still be doing much less damage than Kael will be. She makes up for this with her amazing A2, but that's dependent on you actually getting the kill with it, which may not always be possible. Couple this with the fact that Kael is easier to gear and book, and I'd say you probably should stick with Kael - although if he's geared for CB that may not be the case. You'll have to make that judgement call yourself.
One thing which may help you though is to replace Valkyrie with Apothecary. The idea here is that you get a double speed boost, which lets you make up for having a slower nuker. Then, you can avoid using speed boots on the nuker, and really gear them purely for damage. This also helps if your Khatun is particularly fast. This is sort of the new meta now - almost all teams at higher ranks are running either two speed boosters, or comps that specifically counter those two speed booster teams.
Hey! Thanks for the Elaborate response :)
So my High Khatun is at 213 Speed.
Warmaiden at 159
Valykyrie at 145
Kael was around 156
But unfortunately my Kael was not hitting hard enough. I think i will be able to drop Kael from my CB team and replace with 2nd Frozen Banshee or Aothar, so i should be good there. So then i can focus on a Nuke build.
I'm going to try your suggestion with getting Apo in instead of Valkyrie
At your level you'll need to be speed tuned. What that means is that the turn meter boost (high khatun gives 15% on her A2 for instance) boost your next character in line enough that they will go before the other team can go. I highly recommend the deadwood jedi site. The calculator looks really intimidating so feel free to ask questions if something doesn't seem to work. Those who have used it for a while might not understand how you don't understand something so simple but feel free to ignore them.
https://www.deadwoodjedi.com/arena-calculator
What is basically important is that the first character boosts the second character who boosts the third character. When you've run out of people who boost turn meter, the rest of the characters will all have to have a speed pretty close to each other. Here is an example:
So I set high khatun as the aura lead which gives everyone 19% on their base speed. I then said she was going to use her A2 (increase speed AND turn meter). I said I had 3 speed sets on her (6 pieces of speed gear) and that I had the lore of steel mastery from the support tree (which boosts base stat set bonuses) and said that the speed that the game shows for her in the tavern is 150. What the calculator shows is that the speed the game shows for Kael would have to be 124.5 for nobody to cut in.
That was a long-winded way of saying that you should probably use 2 turn meter boosters into a defense down champ before your nuker. Early game, it is hard to get the required speeds if you don't do that. That's basically just reiterating what kramaswamy said. If you have apothecary and high khatun, you'll probably want apothecary to be the fastest of the two (but use high khatun's speed aura, meaning you have her in the lead slot on the character select page). High khatun's speed goes up to 104 AFTER you get her to 6 stars AND ascend her to 6 stars. Your apothecary will have a base speed of 106 already.
Ahh wow! That's a useful calculator for sure! Thanks for the tip. Looks like i'm going to get down to some speed tuning and give High Khatun, Apo, Warmaiden and Kael a shot. I now have Kael being built towards Arena, so hopefully this should work!
There are some fantastic people in this forum. These are fantastic tips and advice.
At your level you'll need to be speed tuned. What that means is that the turn meter boost (high khatun gives 15% on her A2 for instance) boost your next character in line enough that they will go before the other team can go. I highly recommend the deadwood jedi site. The calculator looks really intimidating so feel free to ask questions if something doesn't seem to work. Those who have used it for a while might not understand how you don't understand something so simple but feel free to ignore them.
https://www.deadwoodjedi.com/arena-calculator
What is basically important is that the first character boosts the second character who boosts the third character. When you've run out of people who boost turn meter, the rest of the characters will all have to have a speed pretty close to each other. Here is an example:
So I set high khatun as the aura lead which gives everyone 19% on their base speed. I then said she was going to use her A2 (increase speed AND turn meter). I said I had 3 speed sets on her (6 pieces of speed gear) and that I had the lore of steel mastery from the support tree (which boosts base stat set bonuses) and said that the speed that the game shows for her in the tavern is 150. What the calculator shows is that the speed the game shows for Kael would have to be 124.5 for nobody to cut in.
That was a long-winded way of saying that you should probably use 2 turn meter boosters into a defense down champ before your nuker. Early game, it is hard to get the required speeds if you don't do that. That's basically just reiterating what kramaswamy said. If you have apothecary and high khatun, you'll probably want apothecary to be the fastest of the two (but use high khatun's speed aura, meaning you have her in the lead slot on the character select page). High khatun's speed goes up to 104 AFTER you get her to 6 stars AND ascend her to 6 stars. Your apothecary will have a base speed of 106 already.
Hey just one more question - Why do you recommend having Apothecary go before High Khatun? I was comparing the skills, they both seem identical.
It's slightly easier to get Apoth faster speed, because he has a higher base speed. Speed auras boost base speed. Apoth base speed is 106, vs Khatun at 104. But the difference is extremely minimal. Khatun's aura is 19%, so Apoth gains 106 * 0.19 = 20.14 speed vs Khatun gains 104 * 0.19 = 19.76 speed. Might seem silly, but small things like that can make a big difference in arena.
Regarding your other post - unfortunately 213 speed is really, really low. I understand you're only at Bronze 4, but even at that level you should be able to get much higher speeds than 213. Are you wearing level 16 speed boots that are at least 5-star? Do you have speed substats on all your items? Khatun's *only* purpose is to go first. Your item priority on her should be to prioritize speed substats on all items, and then to prioritize Speed and Divine Speed sets, followed by Perception sets.
Your goal should be to get Apoth or Khatun to around 250 speed, the other to around 210 speed, and the rest of your team to around 180 speed. The exact numbers can be found using the linked calculator. The goal is to have your first champ use their TM boosting move, followed by your second champ using *their* TM boosting move, followed by your Warmaiden applying decrease DEF, and then lastly your Kael nuking them.
Hey just one more question - Why do you recommend having Apothecary go before High Khatun? I was comparing the skills, they both seem identical.
What kramasamy said although there was the additional reason that you already have apothecary at 6 stars and ascended. High Khatun's base speed is MUCH lower until you get her to 6 stars and ascended so if you focus on building Apothecary now, he'll already be built while you are working on High Khatun. I think her speed is 97 prior to ascending her (that doesn't mean taking her to 6 stars, that means taking her to 6 stars and then fully ascending her).
