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I Now See why the Arena needs to Complete overhaul

I Now See why the Arena needs to Complete overhaul

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Sep 6, 2020, 22:5709/06/20
07/05/19
747

I Now See why the Arena needs to Complete overhaul

I finally get it! In the past I have mentioned this theory, but I finally see why arena fix is not about taking players out of the pool like the last fix (removing inactive players out of the pool), in fact this kind if fix will actually make arena problem even worse.

First of all I would like to say, bravo Plarium! You've made a PvP system that is impossible to breach without newbies turning into whales! While maintaining a facade that playing regularly will net you the same outcome.


Ever wonder why when you start playing the arena, you start at 1000 points? In other games of this genre, you almost always start from zero, but in raid you start with 1000, in which you can actually lose points and get bellow where you start.

Also ever wonder why every week there's a need to reset your points to the lower limits of your tier? I mean wouldn't letting you keep your point as is after distributing the weekly arena reward achieve the same thing?


You see those 2 things are essential for Plarium to mask the nature of the classic arena.

The first thing, the 1000 points starting points is essential because the point system in arena is a zero sum system, the points I win, is the exact same points my opponent lose, I win 9 points, my opponents lose 9 points; I lose 11 points, my opponent gain 11 points.

You can actually check this at your defense log and calculate it for yourself.

The 1000 points given to you as you start playing in the arena is needed to grow the arena ladder, the more people join, the more points are available for you to grab, but in the end there is a finite number of points available for any player in the system to get; that number is 1000 * the number of players in the arena. 

Hence if Plarium did remove inactive accounts in the last fix, they would actually remove a huge number of available points in the arena; which in my theory would make arena EVEN WORSE because less points = harder to get to higher tier, but this explains why my account is actually benefitted from the fix while many other barely feel anything. I would assume anyone around my tier of silver 1 should also feel some benefit.

As I said, the point system is a zero sum system, so assuming plarium really did remove inactive accounts, there should be a contraction in the whole system, those bellow should be pulled up a little and those above should feel a tug down. That is why Plarium said the fix is for Bronze and Silver in all of their announcement, because they know it would actually effect those on the border of Silver 4/ gold 1 negatively. But they won't really feel it because of how those in the border of the tier are used to going up and down between tier, that a slightly stronger pull down won't bother them.

And this is why the weekly reset of points ARE ESSENTIAL. It is used to mask this nature of the zero sum system. Because of this zero sum system, for anyone to reach a higher tier, they need to pull someone down, if you start in bronze, you need to pull someone down from silver, and then you need to pull someone down from gold... To mask this, Plarium geniously mask it with a weekly reset, and distract you with weekly rewards, if there was no weekly reset, you will all see how the points you have are stuck! In fact you can clearly see it going down if your progression of your arena champs are not in par to everyone around you.


To prove my theory, I will need the weekly list of the top Platinum tier winner. If my theory is correct, there's should be very minimum change in the points of the platinum tier winners in the last few months, and at the week of the 2.12 fix there's should be a slight decrease in points of those in the Platinum.


So with this knowledge, what can we do as players? If my theory is correct, then to get to gold easier, what you all need to do is pump fake accounts into the arena, giving more available points for players to grab.



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Sep 6, 2020, 23:0409/06/20
12/19/19
6001
I think that is what originally boosted everyone to gold4 originally. Bot accounts in our favor... you would get a full page of accounts way lower than yours every couple resets. 10 free wins. If you refreshed once an hour you never lost, lol
Sep 6, 2020, 23:0709/06/20
Sep 6, 2020, 23:39(edited)
07/05/19
747

Trips said:


I think that is what originally boosted everyone to gold4 originally. Bot accounts in our favor... you would get a full page of accounts way lower than yours every couple resets. 10 free wins. If you refreshed once an hour you never lost, lol

And that what leads to the May fix fiasco, the removal of the massive bots accounts


Edit: and oh yeah, I guess you're right in calling the arena a ponzi scheme all along
Sep 6, 2020, 23:1909/06/20
01/15/20
105
What I don’t get I was in gold 3 for over a month and hardly had any easy teams yet I reach gold 4 last night and as of today I’m 3074 into gold 4 and had over 10 teams with crap defenses 
Sep 6, 2020, 23:3109/06/20
07/05/19
747

Zukoku said:


What I don’t get I was in gold 3 for over a month and hardly had any easy teams yet I reach gold 4 last night and as of today I’m 3074 into gold 4 and had over 10 teams with crap defenses 

I would assume those are people who no longer care about arena and just throw it all away because they already get Arbiter and no longer feel the need to hold onto the tier. Also there are people who like the arena where they can claw back all their lost points through offensive battles.

In gold 3 people still need to get to that gold 4 mission, hence they are still holding on to their points fiercely.

If there are people letting go of their tier 4 wouldn't it suppose to be easier for G3 to reach G4? Well it's a couple of spots that are contested by hundreds if not thousands of people.


That is my assumption on why gold 4 is actually easier than 3.

Sep 7, 2020, 00:3609/07/20
07/16/17
13

Quote Zukoku "I would assume those are people who no longer care about arena and just throw it all away because they already get Arbiter and no longer feel the need to hold onto the tier."


Arbiter highlights how broken the Arena is, there are two ways to get Arbiter getting into Gold 4 or by a shard. A blue shard gives you a 0.0054% chance (that's a ratio of 1:18600 shards to open) and a gold shard gives you a 0.065% chance (that's 1550 shards) Good Luck Everyone.

But it does not stop there because there are artifacts (and level of artifascts) exclusive to gold level and above which you can never get, then getting the best out of tournaments and events are also beyound your reach.

The arena is like a five-lane highway which has had three lanes closed. the only way getting rid of the inactive players was going to help would have been if all of them were in the gold tiers.

There is a simple solution to the Arena and that is a timer. Once a player gets into gold 1 their timer starts they get two months, after that they get kicked out of the Arena for 1 month and then they return to bronze 1 but the champions artifacts are downgraded to 4 star when used in the arena for the next month.

Downgrading champions is used in other games to control mega champions in certain parts of the game

Sep 7, 2020, 03:1409/07/20
Sep 7, 2020, 08:19(edited)
07/05/19
747

Randie said:


Quote Zukoku "I would assume those are people who no longer care about arena and just throw it all away because they already get Arbiter and no longer feel the need to hold onto the tier."


Arbiter highlights how broken the Arena is, there are two ways to get Arbiter getting into Gold 4 or by a shard. A blue shard gives you a 0.0054% chance (that's a ratio of 1:18600 shards to open) and a gold shard gives you a 0.065% chance (that's 1550 shards) Good Luck Everyone.

But it does not stop there because there are artifacts (and level of artifascts) exclusive to gold level and above which you can never get, then getting the best out of tournaments and events are also beyound your reach.

The arena is like a five-lane highway which has had three lanes closed. the only way getting rid of the inactive players was going to help would have been if all of them were in the gold tiers.

There is a simple solution to the Arena and that is a timer. Once a player gets into gold 1 their timer starts they get two months, after that they get kicked out of the Arena for 1 month and then they return to bronze 1 but the champions artifacts are downgraded to 4 star when used in the arena for the next month.

Downgrading champions is used in other games to control mega champions in certain parts of the game

More like 5 lane that has 4 lane closed..

And I have to disagree with the champ degradation idea, I think the simpler idea is that just change the point reward.

Win 9 lose 4

Win 10 lose 5

Win 11 lose 5

Win 12 lose 6

And so on


With that point reward change, there would be more points to grab, thus opening more spots on gold.

If we combine this with my other idea of adding a checkpoint, it would make some people to not lose any point after losing while the opponent still gain full winning point, this will further add more points in the whole system, again opening even more spots in gold.


That is my idea, I'd rather make more points available for grabs rather than degrading some champs people have built so hard. Remember, some people put specialised built on arena champs, so even if the degradation only triggered if the champs are used in Arena, since the champs were built specifically for arena they wouldn't be able to be used on other areas of the game, thus completely destroying the champs in question.

Sep 7, 2020, 03:2309/07/20
05/03/20
1751

I gave up on arena and am actually doing better.  I have a list of heroes I will not play if they are leveled to 60.  I have a list of good heroes that I will play if they are L50 or less.  The rest of their team is also part of it. 


I built a tank team before I got frustrated.  Its doing better that expected. 


There needs to be some way to not lose points when we log out of the game.  Your defense loses points even when you log out.  Thats not right. I never saw a game where you are still active when logged out. 
Sep 7, 2020, 03:4509/07/20
07/05/19
747

ClosedPoly said:


I gave up on arena and am actually doing better.  I have a list of heroes I will not play if they are leveled to 60.  I have a list of good heroes that I will play if they are L50 or less.  The rest of their team is also part of it. 


I built a tank team before I got frustrated.  Its doing better that expected. 


There needs to be some way to not lose points when we log out of the game.  Your defense loses points even when you log out.  Thats not right. I never saw a game where you are still active when logged out. 

Actually many games of this genre still put you on the list of "fightable" account even when you logged out. SPECIALLY when you logged out.

Some games actually sell you a "power up" to take you out of that list for some period if time (usually for 1 day, 3 day, and a week, but there's some that for a premium price will take you out of the list for a month)


As I said, the problem is in the points system. In many other games, you lose less than what you win, usually your winning doubles compared to your losing. That is why in other games your points won't dive too steep when you logged out, and when it does happen, it would take less wins compared to the number of loses to claw back the points you lose.

This is why no matter what Plarium do, if they don't change the point system, it's not going to change anything, and my worry is that they'll double down on account removal strategy, which is going to make arena situation EVEN WORSE.



Sep 7, 2020, 04:2409/07/20
12/19/19
6001

OzzLee said:


Zukoku said:


What I don’t get I was in gold 3 for over a month and hardly had any easy teams yet I reach gold 4 last night and as of today I’m 3074 into gold 4 and had over 10 teams with crap defenses 

I would assume those are people who no longer care about arena and just throw it all away because they already get Arbiter and no longer feel the need to hold onto the tier. Also there are people who like the arena where they can claw back all their lost points through offensive battles.

In gold 3 people still need to get to that gold 4 mission, hence they are still holding on to their points fiercely.

If there are people letting go of their tier 4 wouldn't it suppose to be easier for G3 to reach G4? Well it's a couple of spots that are contested by hundreds if not thousands of people.


That is my assumption on why gold 4 is actually easier than 3.

No. Gold 4 is easier because the super good teams put bad defenses to farm bottom of gold4 and avoid platinum level teams.


And yes, the ponzi scheme collapsed...lol
Sep 7, 2020, 05:0309/07/20
07/05/19
747

Trips said:



No. Gold 4 is easier because the super good teams put bad defenses to farm bottom of gold4 and avoid platinum level teams.


And yes, the ponzi scheme collapsed...lol

That actually made more sense...

And I did want to change the title to "Trips was right, Classic Arena is a Ponzi Scheme" but unfortunately I can't edit the title. 😅


Sep 7, 2020, 14:3409/07/20
12/19/19
6001

OzzLee said:


Trips said:



No. Gold 4 is easier because the super good teams put bad defenses to farm bottom of gold4 and avoid platinum level teams.


And yes, the ponzi scheme collapsed...lol

That actually made more sense...

And I did want to change the title to "Trips was right, Classic Arena is a Ponzi Scheme" but unfortunately I can't edit the title. 😅


Thanks Oz :) I figured there was at least 1 smart person here that would come around and agree with me. Lol

Hopefully they actually address the issue now. It does seem they have acknowledged it. I went to sleep at 2950 in g4, woke up at top of g2...ouch. surprised I lasted this long. The reset to bottom of tier hurts the most. They could encourage arena by placing you in the tier based on total matches played W or L! This rewards game engagement and gem usage ($$$)!

But they really need to just expand the tiers AND restrict your opponents to TENURE +/- 6 MONTHS until you reach gold or something. 
Sep 7, 2020, 15:1709/07/20
07/05/19
747

Trips said:

Thanks Oz :) I figured there was at least 1 smart person here that would come around and agree with me. Lol

Hopefully they actually address the issue now. It does seem they have acknowledged it. I went to sleep at 2950 in g4, woke up at top of g2...ouch. surprised I lasted this long. The reset to bottom of tier hurts the most. They could encourage arena by placing you in the tier based on total matches played W or L! This rewards game engagement and gem usage ($$$)!

But they really need to just expand the tiers AND restrict your opponents to TENURE +/- 6 MONTHS until you reach gold or something. 

What I am afraid right now, is that they're going to double down in the removing old account even faster. 

Which, understanding this now, taking more player away from the arena would made it even worse

They know classic arena is problematic, but I doubt that they know the root of the problem... Or they know, but this is an intentional design from them.