The point of investing in defense units?

16 Replies
XploiT
18 March, 2016, 11:24 AM UTC

Defensive stats of Elf Mage:



New defensive stats of Shadow Lancer:



Now, could someone enlighten me about the reason for having defense troops? 


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pinkbitz
19 March, 2016, 2:11 AM UTC

Ive noticed this, surely it has to be a bug.

1 shadow lancer killed more undead at def bg than a higher lvl elf mage. 


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FaZi
19 March, 2016, 7:43 AM UTC

it is not a bug or anything.


That is how all plarium games all , well i would say how all games are. Defensive units stats are lower than compared to offensive. As per my calculation the over all (Avg.) is 2.2 defensive to one offensive units.

if you are going to be defensive you need to train more defensive troops & in addition to that i know you guyz already have seen that defensive troops take less resources to build and some takes less time as well.


Th' rougher th' seven seas, th' smoother we sail. Ahoy! ahead ye coward
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pinkbitz
19 March, 2016, 10:47 AM UTC

Fazi said:


it is not a bug or anything.


That is how all plarium games all , well i would say how all games are. Defensive units stats are lower than compared to offensive. As per my calculation the over all (Avg.) is 2.2 defensive to one offensive units.

if you are going to be defensive you need to train more defensive troops & in addition to that i know you guyz already have seen that defensive troops take less resources to build and some takes less time as well.


  • Well i play stormfall and soldiers and comparing similar unit types something is clearly different.


                                                    


                                                



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FaZi
19 March, 2016, 11:16 AM UTC

Thank you for pointing out pink bitz but i see some discrepancies in there such as levels, one defensive is level 18 while one offense is level 11.


I play pirates & nords and in both games units are like this. Offensive are more costly, more time to build & more strong, while defensive are less costly, less time to build & less strong.


I am not sure if you have compared same units type & basic ones or what so i would like to have a 2nd opinion on that from someone who plays it & also compare the same levels not higher & lowers.

Th' rougher th' seven seas, th' smoother we sail. Ahoy! ahead ye coward
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XploiT
19 March, 2016, 11:26 AM UTC

Quick reminder: 

http://forum.plarium.com/en/nords-heroes-of-the-north-browser/game-discussion/topics/your-voice-is-needed--units-characteristics-/1/#46376/

So, even though players provided Plarium with almost undivided feedback about this idea, they pushed it forward nevertheless.

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FaZi
19 March, 2016, 11:34 AM UTC

That thread is 7 months old, so i don't think it has been taken into consideration. But we have one similar discussion going on in Pirates as well right now, will see what our CM can do in this regard.



Th' rougher th' seven seas, th' smoother we sail. Ahoy! ahead ye coward
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pinkbitz
19 March, 2016, 11:35 AM UTC

Ignore the lvl bonus. The base stats were so clearly different in pre update Nords, ie they had comparable values to stormfall/soldiers units. 

Now they have completely changed. I lold when i saw that my Shadowlancers have more defence than higher lvl Rockwings. 

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XploiT
19 March, 2016, 12:07 PM UTC

I’m sorry, but I don’t find the tread irrelevant. It’s the same game, more or less same players, but definitely same bad idea.

You could argue about its irrelevance, but only in case of drastic short attention disorder of those dismissing this input.

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pinkbitz
19 March, 2016, 12:22 PM UTC

http://forum.plarium.com/en/nords-heroes-of-the-north-browser/news-and-announcements/topics/bugfix-03-17---update-news-/1/#109170/

http://forum.plarium.com/en/nords-heroes-of-the-north-browser/news-and-announcements/topics/awesome-new-game-changes--make-your-stronghold-mightier-/1/#109381/

 Wonder why there is no mention of such a MAJOR change to unit stats in either of the above threads.




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Adrian
20 March, 2016, 4:58 AM UTC
If offensive troops have better defence than defensive troops then may I ask what is the point of having defensive troops?
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Blasphemy
Moderator
20 March, 2016, 3:06 PM UTC

every plarium game the offense has an advantage over defense

because defense we can defend our bases and or our clans with great force ( if you work as a team among your clan ) 

but to send offense out you have to do individually the force isn't as great as defense working together 


reason why defense alone isn't as strong 



I am a daughter of a High King who is not moved by this world for my God is with me and goes before me, I do not fear because im his
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Adrian
20 March, 2016, 10:09 PM UTC
Blasphemy said:

every plarium game the offense has an advantage over defense

because defense we can defend our bases and or our clans with great force ( if you work as a team among your clan ) 

but to send offense out you have to do individually the force isn't as great as defense working together 


reason why defense alone isn't as strong 

So defensive troops I would send to obs while BG and stashes I just use offensive troops? Hence if my guild does not have any obs defensive troops would be quite useless for me?
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pinkbitz
20 March, 2016, 10:10 PM UTC
No point trying to catch someones offence out of cats now since offence has comparable defence to defensive units.
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Mattius
21 March, 2016, 4:31 AM UTC

hey :)


I ran the numbers on the new DEF stats for attack units... its still CLEARLY advantageous to train def for defensive purposes. For example.. my lvl 19 rockwings.. i can train 622 def per training hour... now compare that with my lvl 19 firedrakes (and a 10% OFF bonus on top)... which sits about 406 def per hour.


(OFF troops have roughly 70% of their attk value as def and vice versa for DEF troops)


People are forgetting that OFF troop training times are MUCH longer... the only real comparison is to calculate how much def you can produce per hour for each troop type.

For my troops i get 45-60% more def per hr training DEF troops versus OFF troops... my gear on both are roughly the same.


DEF Troops in the long run are a better investment, especially for those who have HIGH DEF bonus at their strongholds.. you gain 3-6x move pvp defending than attacking in later stages of the game. OFF has the advantage early on but those with lots of def in their castle who get hit will be laughing all the way to the bank.


One "strategy" is to train junk def and park them in a castle with high def bonus... and choose kings shadow lancers as your reward. You'll have a nice collection in no time lol with minimal def troop loss.


I personally think this is a GOOD change... im tired of ppl whinging about losing all their attack troops and quitting. Now that ATTK troops have decent defence, it keeps the game more interesting. well done Plarium!!

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FaZi
21 March, 2016, 6:07 AM UTC

Mattius said:


hey :)


I ran the numbers on the new DEF stats for attack units... its still CLEARLY advantageous to train def for defensive purposes. For example.. my lvl 19 rockwings.. i can train 622 def per training hour... now compare that with my lvl 19 firedrakes (and a 10% OFF bonus on top)... which sits about 406 def per hour.


(OFF troops have roughly 70% of their attk value as def and vice versa for DEF troops)


People are forgetting that OFF troop training times are MUCH longer... the only real comparison is to calculate how much def you can produce per hour for each troop type.

For my troops i get 45-60% more def per hr training DEF troops versus OFF troops... my gear on both are roughly the same.


DEF Troops in the long run are a better investment, especially for those who have HIGH DEF bonus at their strongholds.. you gain 3-6x move pvp defending than attacking in later stages of the game. OFF has the advantage early on but those with lots of def in their castle who get hit will be laughing all the way to the bank.


One "strategy" is to train junk def and park them in a castle with high def bonus... and choose kings shadow lancers as your reward. You'll have a nice collection in no time lol with minimal def troop loss.


I personally think this is a GOOD change... im tired of ppl whinging about losing all their attack troops and quitting. Now that ATTK troops have decent defence, it keeps the game more interesting. well done Plarium!!

Thank you mattius for helping out, That is what i tried to explain here : http://forum.plarium.com/en/nords-heroes-of-the-north-browser/game-discussion/topics/the-point-of-investing-in-defense-units-/1/#109579/


But your reply just made it sound more clear :)


+1

Th' rougher th' seven seas, th' smoother we sail. Ahoy! ahead ye coward
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jlgee
23 March, 2016, 4:47 AM UTC
Mattius said:

hey :)


I ran the numbers on the new DEF stats for attack units... its still CLEARLY advantageous to train def for defensive purposes. For example.. my lvl 19 rockwings.. i can train 622 def per training hour... now compare that with my lvl 19 firedrakes (and a 10% OFF bonus on top)... which sits about 406 def per hour.


(OFF troops have roughly 70% of their attk value as def and vice versa for DEF troops)


People are forgetting that OFF troop training times are MUCH longer... the only real comparison is to calculate how much def you can produce per hour for each troop type.

For my troops i get 45-60% more def per hr training DEF troops versus OFF troops... my gear on both are roughly the same.


DEF Troops in the long run are a better investment, especially for those who have HIGH DEF bonus at their strongholds.. you gain 3-6x move pvp defending than attacking in later stages of the game. OFF has the advantage early on but those with lots of def in their castle who get hit will be laughing all the way to the bank.


One "strategy" is to train junk def and park them in a castle with high def bonus... and choose kings shadow lancers as your reward. You'll have a nice collection in no time lol with minimal def troop loss.


I personally think this is a GOOD change... im tired of ppl whinging about losing all their attack troops and quitting. Now that ATTK troops have decent defence, it keeps the game more interesting. well done Plarium!!

I agree that this is one of the few changes I actually like from Plarium, there are some people who make it their duty and pleasure to go around wiping others offensive troops out cause they get little losses and feel good (bullies). The honest truth tho is this shouldnt be an issue to begin with, thinking rationally about it your stronghold is given notification in advance of any incoming raid, your offensive units just sit there with their fingers crossed doing prayers while they wait to be steamrolled? no they would get notification of incoming raid and they would hide in the catacombs for cover.. instead plarium makes it easy for your offense to get caught out of your catacombs on purpose to encourage this kind of behavior and the emotions that come with it. Raising the defensive stats of offense will help make it cost more to those bullies who take out others offense needlessly, but in the end the change is still a positive one for plarium cause the attacker will now lose much more then they did before, win plarium
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