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Determine the size of troops for farming (by duration and quantity)

Determine the size of troops for farming (by duration and quantity)

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21 авг. 2020, 11:1021.08.20
18.10.17
84

Determine the size of troops for farming (by duration and quantity)

See also: Farming: Yield vs. Capacity and Exact amounts of resources in tiles  

How can you determine the size of troops for farming?

There are 2 questions which are of particular interest, the first is needed to solve the second: 

  1. Troop size for a desired yield duration (1 h or 3 h Safe conduct)
  2. Yielding time for a certain amount (camp depletion)


In order to determine the troop size for a given yield duration (and/or quantity), a test yielding is recommended (with a troop of for example 10 K warriors) and a suitable method to obtain the values required for the simple calculation. 

With a 10 K troop, you choose a size that is easy to calculate (and does not represent an excessive risk of loss).
 

TEST YIELDING

Send 10 K troops to farm and note their duration of yielding. It should be noted that the amount of resources in the tile is greater than the capacity of the test troop.

Quick action and reading are required! - Comments on risk reduction: 

  • Immediately after reading the duration of the yielding, the camp should be left again immediately in order not to expose the troops to attacks unnecessarily.
  • Delayed reading corresponds to shorter yielding time, which can result in a too large troop and thus lead to timeouts (and loss; note the rounding off of the result). 


Use the following parameters for calculation (example values are used): 

  • Camp ('camp_type') and resource type ('rss_type') are optional values to reuse the result of the calculation for other marches in the same configuration. So they are not used for the calculation, but only serve as an informative note. 
  • The total amount of resources in a camp ('rss_amount') is needed if you want to determine the duration for emptying it (see 2nd question/calculation). 
  • The capacity of the test troop ('test_amount') we need for calculate directly the yield of a certain amount of resources (in calculation 2) and if we don't want to select a 1h-troop and read out their capacity.
  • The test yield duration ('test_duration') is displayed in hours, minutes and seconds and can be read as soon as the troop has arrived at the camp.  
  • For the calculation, the conversion from time to seconds is the easiest way to avoid decimal times.
  • The duration of the available Safe conducts are given fixed values and are 1 h or 3 h.
     

camp_type = Type of camp (deposit type), example: Alpha-Assailant camp 

rss_type = Type of resource, example: Stone 

rss_amount = Total yield amount (camp size), example: 3.5 M 

test_troop = Troop size yielding test, example: 10 K 

test_amount = Yield quantity test (test troop capacity) 

test_duration: Duration of yielding test [hh mm ss], example: 8m 30s 

test_duration_s: Duration of yielding test in seconds 

sc_duration_1h = 3'600 seconds (1 h Safe conduct = 60 minutes * 60 seconds) 

sc_duration_3h = 10'800 seconds (3 h Safe conduct = 180 minutes * 60 seconds) 

CALCUALATION 1 (duration)

Calculating the size of the troops for 1 h yielding time with Safe conduct.

Formula: Troop size to be sent = sc_duration_1h / test_duration_s * test_troop

EXAMPLE: 

Send a troop of 10 K to a test yielding, determine the following values and call the test troop back as soon as possible.

  • test_troop = 10 K
  • test_duration = 8m 30s
  • test_duration_s = 510s (Conversion to seconds: 8m * 60s + 30s)


Calculation ('result_a1'):

3'600 / 510 * 10'000 = 70'588.2352941 (= 70 K troops to send)

Result ('result_a1'): 

A troop of maximum about 70 K yields for one hour. 

In order to obtain some reserve duration (and to compensate for timeouts due to unavoidable delays in practical handling), it is in any case strongly recommended to round off the result or, if necessary (small rounding difference, reading delay), even to reduce it artificially, for example to 69 K).

In other words:

To calculate 1h-troop size: Just fill in minutes and seconds from test yield duration with 10 K troop size into the formula in the search field, hit enter and let Google do the math (or use the spreadsheet below)...

 
 

CALCUALATION 2 (amount)

The calculation of the required runs (count of 1h quantities) for emptying the camp is simple and based on the test troop (or 1h-troop) capacity and the result of the first calculation.  

For this we need the input of a capacity (yield quantity), either from the test troop or from the 1h troop. Using the test capacity allows direct calculation (without selecting a 1h-troop for sending first for getting their capacity value).

Anyway the capacity value is visible in the troops selection window before troops are sent.
 

result_a1 = Troop headcount for 1 h (the result of calculation 1) 

test_amount = Yield quantity test (test troop capacity)

yield_amount_1h = Yield quantity 1h (capacity of the 1h-troop)
 

Formula (by test capacity):
Number of yield runs (with 1h-troop size) =

rss_amount / ( test_amount * ( result_a1 / test_troop ) ) )
 

Formula (by 1h-troop capacity):
Number of yield runs (with 1h-troop size) =

rss_amount / yield_amount_1h

EXAMPLE yielding runs (to 1 h): 

test_amount = 171'360 Yield quantity test (capacity of 10 K troops from test yielding)


OR

yield_amount_1h = 1'209'600 Yield quantity (capacity of 70 K troops at a yielding duration of 1 h)

Calculation:

3'500 K / ( 171.36 K * ( 70.5882352941 K / 10 K ) ) ) = 2.89351851852 Yielding runs 


OR

3.5 M / 1.2096 M = 2.89351851852 Yielding runs 

Result: 

  • With 2.9 yielding runs (at 70 K troops per h), 3.5 M stone is yield. ...Attention: The time needed for distances and sending the troops is neglected! 
  • With a 3h Safe conduct (and corresponding three times bigger troop size = 210 K) the camp is safely and completely emptied. 


CALCULATION TOOL:

Under the following download link  is a spreadsheet for calculation available, the above example is already entered (OpenOffice Format, usable in Excel and Google):

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sySk7TfbPCx1fObr0L07enOgp2hnuOIz/view?usp=sharing 

Further information on farming before and for events

If the sending of the troops is scheduled for the yielding time to expire shortly before the start of an event, taking into account the time needed to cover the distances (outward and return journey), valuable points can be collected for the event even before the event.

It is assumed that farming scores in the event, that the troops leave the camp in time BEFORE the event starts, if they are collected without Safe conduct, and that they return to the city AFTER the event has started; - ...whereby longer distances are advantageous for scheduling).

Date and time calculations are complex.
They depend on many factors and a minute does not always equal 60 seconds as well as a year does not always have 365 days. If time zones and system time are changed, incorrect results can occur. Leap years and leap seconds are neglected in the formulas (as well as the fact that a second on a mountain is not as long as a second in a valley...).

However, the formulas used are mostly reliable and useful in this context.

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21 авг. 2020, 11:4221.08.20
16 сент. 2021, 15:41(отредактировано)
18.10.17
84


Deutsche Übersetzung...

Wie kann man die Truppengrösse zum Farmen bestimmen?

Siehe auch: Farming: Yield vs. Capacity und Exact amounts of resources in tiles

Es sind 2 Fragen (Berechnungen), welche vor allem interessieren, wobei die erste zur Lösung der zweiten benötigt wird: 

  1. Truppengrösse für eine gewünschte Abbau-Dauer (1 h oder 3 h Geleitschutz)
  2. Abbau-Dauer für bestimmte Menge (Camp leeren)


Um die Truppengrösse für eine bestimmte Abbau-Dauer (und/oder -Menge) zu ermitteln, ist ein Test-Abbau empfehlenswert (mit einer Truppe von beispielsweise 10 K Kriegern) und eine geeignete Methode, um die zur einfachen Berechnung benötigten Werte zu erhalten. 

Mit einer 10 K Truppe wählt man eine Grösse, welche leicht zu berechnen ist (und kein übermässig grosses Verlust-Risko darstellt).
 

TEST-ABBAU

Sende 10 K Truppen zum Farmen und notiere deren Abbau-Dauer. Zu beachten ist dabei, dass die Menge der Ressourcen im Lager grösser als die Kapazität der Test-Truppe ist.

Schnelles Handeln und Ablesen sind gefragt! - Anmerkungen zur Risikoverminderung: 

  • Unmittelbar nach dem Ablesen der Abbaudauer sollte das Camp sofort wieder verlassen werden, um die Truppen nicht unnötigen Angriffen auszusetzen.
  • Verzögertes Ablesen entspricht kürzerer Abbau-Dauer (was eine zu grosse Truppe ergeben und damit zu Zeitüberschreitungen führen kann; beachte Abrundung des Ergebnisses). 


Verwende folgende Gössen zur Berechnung  (es werden Beispielwerte verwendet): 

  • Lager- ('camp_type') und Ressourcen-Art ('rss_type') sind optionale Werte, um das Ergebnis der Berechnung für weitere Märsche in gleicher Konfiguration wiederverwenden zu können. Sie werden also nicht zur Berechung verwendet, sondern dienen nur als informative Notiz. 
  • Die Gesamtmenge der Ressourcen in einem Camp ('rss_amount') wird benötigt, falls man die Dauer für dessen Leerung ermittlen möchte (siehe 2. Frage/Berechung). 
  • Die Kapazität der Test-Truppe ('test_amount') benötigen wir zur direkten Berechnung einer bestimmten Abbau-Menge (in Berechnung 2) und falls wir keine 1h-Truppe auswählen und deren Kapazität ablesen wollen.
  • Die Test-Abbaudauer ('test_duration') wird in Stunden, Minuten und Sekunden angezeigt und ist abzulesen, sobald die Truppe im Camp angekommen ist. 
  • Für die Berechnung ist die Umrechnung von Zeitangaben zu Sekunden am Einfachsten, um dezimale Zeitangaben zu vermeiden. 
  • Die Dauer des verfügbaren Geleitschutzes sind gegebene Fixwerte und betragen 1 h oder 3 h.

 

camp_type = Art des Camps (Lager-Art), Beispiel: Alpha-Eindringlins-Lager 

rss_type = Type of resource, Beispiel: Stein 

rss_amount = Totale Abbau-Menge (Lager-Grösse), Beispiel: 3.5 M 

test_troop = Truppengrösse Test-Abbau, Beispiel: 10 K 

test_amount = Abbau-Menge Test (Kapazität Test-Truppe) 

test_duration: Dauer Test-Abbau [hh mm ss], Beispiel: 8m 30s 

test_duration_s: Dauer Test-Abbau in Sekunden 

sc_duration_1h = 3'600 Sekunden (1 h Geleitschutz = 60 minutes * 60 seconds) 

sc_duration_3h = 10'800 Sekunden (3 h Geleitschutz = 180 minutes * 60 seconds) 

BERECHNUNG 1 (Dauer)

Berechung der Truppengrösse für 1 h Abbaudauer unter Geleitschutz (Safe conduct).

Formel: Zu sendende Truppengrösse = sc_duration_1h / test_duration_s * test_troop

BEISPIEL: 

Sende eine Truppe von 10 K zu einem Test-Abbau, ermittle die folgenden Werte und rufe die Test-Truppe so rasch als möglich wieder zurück.

  • test_troop = 10 K
  • test_duration = 8m 30s
  • test_duration_s = 510s (Umwandlung zu Sekunden: 8m * 60s + 30s)


Berechnung ('result_a1'):

3'600 / 510 * 10'000 = 70'588.2352941 (= 70 K zu sendende Truppen)

Ergebnis ('result_a1'): 

Eine Truppe von etwa maximal 70 K baut eine Stunde lang ab.

Um etwas Reserve-Dauer zu erhalten (und um eine Zeitüberschreitung durch unvermeidbare Verzögerungen im praktischen Handling zu kompensieren), wird jedenfalls dringend empfohlen, das Ergebnis abzurunden oder bei Bedarf (kleine Rundungsdifferenz, Ablese-Verzögerung) sogar noch zusätzlich künstlich zu verkleinern, auf beispielsweise 69 K).

Mit anderen Worten:

Um die 1h-Truppengrösse zu berechnen: Gib einfach die Minuten und Sekunden der Test-Abbaudauer mit 10 K Truppen in die Formel im Suchfeld ein, drücke Enter und lass Google rechnen (oder benutze das Tabellenblatt unten)...

 
 

BERECHNUNG 2 (Menge)

Die Berechnung der benötigten Durchläufe (Anzahl 1h-Mengen) zur die Leerung des Camps ist einfach und basiert auf der Kapazität der Test-Truppe (oder der 1h-Truppe) und dem Ergebnis der ersten Berechnung. 

Dazu benötigen wir die Eingabe einer Kapazität (Abbau-Menge), entweder von der Versuchstruppe oder von der 1h-Truppe. Die Verwendung der Testkapazität ermöglicht eine direkte Berechnung (ohne die Auswahl eines 1h-Trupps, um seinen Kapazitätswert zu erhalten).

Auf jeden Fall ist der Kapazitätswert im Truppenauswahlfenster sichtbar, bevor die Truppen entsandt werden.
 

result_a1 = 1h-Truppengrösse (das Ergebnis der Berechnung 1)

test_amount = Abbau-Menge Test (Kapazität der Test-Truppe)

yield_amount_1h = Abbau-Menge 1h (Kapazität der 1h-Truppe)
 

Formel (mittels Test-Kapazität):
Anzahl Abbau-Durchläufe (mit 1h-Truppengrösse) =

rss_amount / ( test_amount * ( result_a1 / test_troop ) ) )
 

Formel (mittels Kapazität 1h-Truppe):
Anzahl Abbau-Durchläufe (mit 1h-Truppengrösse) =

rss_amount / yield_amount_1h

BEISPIEL Abbau-Durchläufe (zu 1 h):

test_amount = 171'360 Abbau-Menge Test (Kapazität der 10 K Truppe vom Abbau-Test)

ODER

yield_amount_1h = 1'209'600 Abbau-Menge (Kapazität der 1h-Truppe)

Berechnung:

3'500 K / ( 171.36 K * ( 70.5882352941 K / 10 K ) ) ) = 2.89351851852 Abbau-Durchläufe 

ODER

3.5 M / 1.2096 M = 2.89351851852 Abbau-Durchläufe 

Result: 

  • Mit 2.9 Abbau-Durchläufen (zu je 70 K Truppen pro h), werden 3.5 M Stein abgebaut. ...Achtung: Die Dauer für Wegstrecken und das Senden der Truppe sind dabei vernachlässigt!  
  • Mit 3 h Geleitschutz (und entsprechend dreifacher Truppengrösse von 210 K) wird das Camp sicher und vollständig geleert. 


TOOL ZUR BERECHNUNG:

Unter dem folgenden Download-Link steht eine Tabelle zur Berechnung verfügbar, bereits eingegeben ist das oben aufgeführte Beispiel (OpenOffice Format, verwendbar in Excel und Google):

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sySk7TfbPCx1fObr0L07enOgp2hnuOIz/view?usp=sharing 

Weiterführender Hinweis zum Farmen vor und für Events

Terminiert man das Absenden der Truppe darauf, dass die Abbaudauer kurz vor Beginn eines Events abläuft, unter Berücksichtigung der Zeitdauer für das Zurücklegen der Wegstrecken (Hin- und Rückweg), kann man schon vor einem Event, wertvolle Punkte für den Event sammeln.

Vorausgesetzt wird dabei, dass das Farmen im Event punktet, dass die Truppe das Lager rechtzeitig VOR dem Event-Beginn verlässt, falls ohne Geleitschutz gesammelt wird und sie jedoch erst NACH dem Event-Beginn in die Stadt zurück kehrt; - ...wobei längere Wege von Vorteil bei der Terminierung sind).

Datums- und Zeitberechnungen sind komplex.
Sie sind abhängig von vielen Faktoren und eine Minute ist nicht immer gleich 60 Sekunden wie auch ein Jahr nicht immer 365 Tage hat. Bei Umstellung von Zeitzonen und Systemzeit können falsche Ergebnisse entstehen. Schaltjahre und Schaltsekunden werden in den Formeln ebenso vernachlässigt (wie auch die Tatsache, dass eine Sekunde auf einem Berg nicht gleich lang wie eine Sekunde im Tal ist...).
Die verwendeten Formeln sind in diesem Rahmen jedoch meistens zuverlässig und zweckdienlich.

21 авг. 2020, 17:4721.08.20
1 сент. 2020, 22:07(отредактировано)
09.09.17
1143

With such numbers in hand, one can look for likely tiles to be entirely yielded within a 1h or 3h safe conduct (or multiples thereof).

- including, (safely) yielding in small amounts until the desired threshold is reached. (To then yield the entire tile in one pass / safe conduct application.)


  • There are various hero skills, equipment, runes, jewels, and Studies (including Citadel), to increase troop capacity and to increase yield rate.
  • There are fewer ways to increase yield rate than increase capacity.
    - capacity is impactful as for the same yield fewer troops are exposed to being destroyed.
  • It is not unusual for players to have particular hero profiles dedicated to yielding, especially as various townscapes and achievements require particular amounts to be (successfully!) yielded.
  • Yield rate does not vary by troop type.
  • Capacity does.
    • From Siege (highest capacity / slowest march speed) through Cavalry (lowest capacity / fastest march speed). (Scouts, zero capacity.) Correspondingly, highest tier to lowest - greater capacity but slower speed.
    • Speed soon becomes irrelevant, given boosts or Route Map subscription.
    • Capacity does start to matter when looking to entirely yield tiles in a single march - It is not possible to send enough Rams to entirely yield an n9 Farm tile.
  • March Headcount increases equate to larger capacity per march - an entire topic in and of itself. See link(s) below.
  • Yield rate increases by tile level! It is a waste of time to yield tiles less than level 5, the automatic yield rate increase the higher tile levels bring are that significant. Even 5 should probably be avoided unless you are trying to stay unnoticed in the outskirts during an event, to try to avoid being tile hit. (Security by obscurity.)
 

Why this matters:
Townscape - Fort of the Seeker:

  • +25% Knight Offense During Offense
  • +25% Army Defense

Achievement - Hard Worker:
- Yield 1.55, 1.6, 1.55, 1.6, 1.65, 1.95, 3, 5, 10.5 B = 30B

  • +10% Army Health During Offense
  • +10% Army Offense

Order Vs Order Events - point changes mean yielding now matters almost as much as killing Alphas. For all but the highers orders, the Yielding category has become a must win. One order member kills Alphas, other yield-optimized members yield the tile under safe conduct.

 

March limited factors:
- Affect Hero or Inquisitor only, so have no effect when not present on that march.
- i.e. Bonuses typically affect first march only, as both Hero and Inquisitor are sent. If they are not sent together, or the Hero's Double is present, their marches also receive their corresponding bonuses - albeit totaling less than if they were sent together.

  • Equipment: https://throne.help/en/resources/equipment/ - shortlist by choosing 'Capacity' and 'Resource Yield' from the Boosts dropdown. e.g. below
    - various items bonus one or the other, some bonus both.

  • Jewels: https://throne.help/en/resources/gems/ - same.
    - Onyx +7% Resource Yield. [Fugitive, Pillager, Renegade, Saracen, Savage, Virago, Barbarian Chief, Black Inquisitor?, Bloody Duke?, Possessed?] - ? = shown at throne.help but not at forum / game database.
    - Heliodor +7% Capacity. [Executioner, Fugitive, Nomad, Pillager, Vandal, Bloody Duke?, Possessed?]
    -- these jewels are so prevalent you will likely pick up all you need along the way. e.g. In getting your 12+ each of unique Alpha jewels, Onyx and Heliodor will come along in significant quantity.
    -- you (can) get both in destroying: Fugitive, Pillager, Bloody Duke, Possessed.

  • Runes: https://throne.help/en/resources/runes/ - same.
    - Researcher/Occultist both +9% Resource Yield and Capacity.
    - Artisan/Occultist {Iron}, Miner/Leper {Siege Defense}, both +15% Resource Yield
    -- +9% Adviser/Fanatic, Artificer/Accursed, Patron/Pagan
    - Mentor/Black Magician +15% Capacity
    -- +9% Leader/Accursed, Ordinator/Sectarian

  • Adrian is the go to Inquisitor for yielding: +20% Resource Yield 10% Capacity.
    - https://plarium.com/forum/en/throne-kingdom-at-war/667_game-database/119548_tables-showing-the-maximum-inquisitor-s-bonuses/?post=543613

  • Hero's Skills (Economic): Resource Yield I (80%), II (120%); Troop Capacity I (50%), II (100%)

  • Hero's Skills (Elite): Troop Capacity III (25%)

Other factors (all marches):

  • Boosts: Resource Yielding Speed +75%, +50% [negligible impact with Alpha or tiles > 6.]
  • Townscapes: Villein Abode +5% Resource Yield, +50% Capacity; Tower of Triumph +10% Resource Yield, +50% Capacity.
  • VIP - 100%
  • Citadel Studies (Special): Resource Yield - 60%
  • Studies (Economic): Resource Yield I (66%), II (100%), III (100%); Capacity (66%)

  • Studies (Foreign Expertise) - each, in Offense, Defense, and Castles: Capacity I (?%), II (?%)
  • Cardinals: Edmondo, Hugo, Laurie +50% (Temporary) Capacity

  • Reputations: none.
  • Achievements: none.

* VIP is arguably the most impactful item, affecting all marches and bringing significant other benefits, yet is also the most expensive. All Errands Autocomplete is a significant playing time saver, all present by n28, however the higher levels, such as Multiple Refreshing and Accomplishment of Errands, starting at n31, require multiple VIP US$19.99 packs to be purchased. To max. out VIP will require many US$100's of $.


Fact file about farming a single type of resource - includes resource production: https://plarium.com/forum/en/throne-kingdom-at-war/667_game-database/195381_fact-file-about-farming-a-single-type-of-resource/


It seems to me I saw a forum or FB post noting all the ways one can improve their capacity and/or yield rates, much like https://plarium.com/forum/en/throne-kingdom-at-war/667_game-database/200424_all-factors-that-affect-march-headcount/ does for march headcount. I can't find it now - if someone comes across it, please add a note here and I'll update the above.



Edits:



27 авг. 2020, 03:5527.08.20
28 авг. 2020, 17:42(отредактировано)
09.09.17
1143

Yes, complete Alpha tile yields in under an hour, are quite normal.


If you can't, yet, don't despair, as you grow in the game you will be able to, too.

- so can contribute better to your mates in OvO. Not only kill Alphas, but yield the resulting camps under 1h safe conduct as well.


Remember that RSS yields, and tile volume:

  • Food: fastest, largest
  • Lumber, Stone: in between, smaller
  • Iron: slower, smallest
  • Silver: slowest, smallest

Preliminary Data, if possible - size of camp to be yielded. e.g.

Alpha camps:

  • Food - 
  • Iron and Silver - 2.2m (2,200,000)
  • Lumber and Stone - 3.5m (3,500,000)


Simple way to figure out how many troops to send / how long it will take

- per hour (/ safe conduct)

- to totally yield tile

  • for which you need to know how much is on the tile.
    • thus the numbers above
    • tiles of a certain level -and- type always contain the same volume - once you know one, you know them all.
    • the capture dialogue shows the current volume. [But the game rounds up, rather grossly. So add the last digit's worth to make sure you get it all in one march, and thus get the resulting bonus material.]
      - you can always send too many troops and read the resulting 'yield goal line' (max), then quickly withdraw the troops.
      - the max shown is the smaller of yield capacity (too few troops sent) or how much is on the tile (too many troops sent *1).

1. Send test yield of, say, 10,000 troops. (Make sure not enough to entirely yield the tile. See *1 above.)


2. Send troops to capture the tile. Immediately re-open the tile - so you can see the total duration that number of troops takes, as soon as they arrive.


3. Note the time shown as soon as the display changes from capture to capturing. e.g.




4a. Troops to send per hour (of safe conduct): # test troops / time in hours = troops per hour (safe conduct)

e.g. 10,000 / (43/60+5) = troops per minute, 10,000 / 5.716...,  ~1,749.271... --> x 60 = troops per safe conduct hour --> ~104,956

4b. Time it will take to totally yield tile: max tile size / test max yield x time in minutes

e.g. 2,200,000 [Alpha #'s, above] / 239,400 * 5.716... (above) --> ~53m


4c. Troops to send to entirely yield the tile: max tile size / test max yield x # test troops

e.g. 2,200,000 [Alpha #'s, above] / 239,400 * 10,000 --> ~91,896


- more troops totaling a capacity larger than is on the tile brings no benefit. If you are trying to maximize your total (across all your marches) yield capacity for your limited number of troops, you will want to save as many troops as you can to use on your next march.
- you may want to note this RSS per troop value, to assist in your initial guesstimates, going forwards.

Bear in mind rounding error - you may want to send a little less. (Note the tile type and how much you sent. Make small adjustments accordingly your next round.)

- you can always note the capacity of 1 troop, in capture window, but the ceiling() rounded value x thousands of troops error does get quite gross. (Gross as in value, not as in eeewww!)