no thanks.

predicting gear sets is a large part of arena and regardless of the current meta that should never change.

edit: in a sense it's a slow meta rather than a speed meta, though more rng heavy. I still don't think gear sets should ever be shown pre fight. at this point if someone is at a reasonable level of PvP and can't predict Stone Skin then frankly they deserve to get clapped in a matchup, IMO.  

tl;dr git gud

Uh ... how about, no? Literally the entire strategy around defense teams is to outsmart your opponent. If they see this information, it loses all of its value.

Learning what sets are common in the current meta, and predicting what teams are built to do, that's part of being good at arena.

Might as well be asking to get their speeds before you fight them too.

Let's predict champions, too, then. Block all information, leave Team Power and let's predict who is on their team. Why not do that? Because you can't develop a strategy without knowing what you're going up against. There is not a single champ or a blessing that warrants as much comp alteration as Stoneskin.  

I see we're just being silly today. 

Considering this is a game built on making decisions based on the champions we have and the champions our opponents have, this is just super silly. Not to mention seeing combinations of champions at the more serious levels of Arena gives us a good chunk of information as to what we should be bringing in that fight, or those fights.

Not to mention champions like Warlord, Yumeko, Taras, Marichka, Mortu, Hephraak - among many other champions - exist and warrant adjusting the types of teams and champions we're bringing. 

Showing gear sets of any kind in Arena just removes all skill based decision making and would render it pointless. Showing champs, team power and blessings gives us a reasonable picture. Given we are the player on offense in this scenario - with the advantage due to that - it is then up to us to paint the rest of that picture with accumulated knowledge from playing the game.

If that's what passes for "outsmarting" in this game, it ain't much. With decent teams, you can already expect that UDK, Duchess, Mithrala, Gaius, Cardinal etc. will be wearing Stoneskin. 

With trash teams, it's just annoying someone out of one token until they come back with an entirely new team and wipe you out. I wouldn't call that outsmarting. 

Well, in this meta I've seen @harleQuinn get to G4 Tag, get to 4th in Classic during the week with basically the same team. No empowerment, no gear ascension, no whaling.

I'm sure she'd agree there's a ton of room in this environment for doing the provable things that win: speed tune for the meta you're in, build your counters, build better defenses to counter the meta.

If you know what your opponents are doing and aren't doing what you can to combat that, then that's really just on you.

So - with decent teams, you can predict it based on the comp. With trash teams - you ... can predict it based on the comp.

What's the issue, exactly?

It's not just any piece of gear set, Stoneskin affects the outcome as much as a champion does, and a good champion, at that. If I see Nekhret, I know what he does, I can plan for it. Having 4 champs in Stoneskin is like having 4 Nekhrets that you can't see. Not exactly like that, but you get the point - they are invincible for 2 turns. 

And I get it when they are in high arena. When it's a legit team, you gotta bring your A-game. But when a trash team is wearing stoneskin, it's just a nuissance. I don't feel "outsmarted" when a trash team wins because of stoneskin, I feel annoyed that I wasted a token. 

You build a team that can handle the current meta, whatever it can throw at you, then you don't have issues. That's what I did during that stream for the clan up to fourth you're referencing. I even fought every team on every page until Plat, then went ahead and climbed to 4th for good measure. So hiding everything? I could handle that tbh. Arena Roulette would be sweet, don't even show me power.

G4 Tag requires counters and being able to handle Stoneskin in every single team in every match. You are either prepared to deal with it, or you lose. Sometimes you still lose, cause RNG can dumpster you.

BT, to quote you from a bunch of UDK whining threads, show me your champs, teams and builds. If you're losing to trash stoneskin teams, we need to look at your arena offense choices. The game doesn't need to give you more information, you need to improve.

Very much here for this approach. This is how we get better, do better. 

We make the necessary adjustments or we get dunked on.

With trash team, it's not predicatble, that's the point. You can see a team that you can beat based on the champions. Let's say a basic speed team, for example: you're confident you'll outpace their TM booster, so you bring your speed team. If they are all wearing stoneskin, it effectively turns their crappy speed team into a go-second team. 

With good teams, I'm not surprised at it. You got a reviver, you gotta protect them. You have a cleanser, you don't want them controlled. You got a tank, you want them durable. 

But if you have a team that would have lost without stoneskin and would lose if the opponent knew you had them in stoneskin? Then you are banking your entire strategy on a factor that is not available to your opponent. Calling that outsmarting is like roofying someone and calling it "game". 

... what? You lost to a team that relied on Stoneskin to win, and the conclusion you reach is ... they shouldn't be able to win because of that?

It sounds to me that you're just ... mad you got beaten?

Can we look at your roster? There has to be a way we can more reliably deal with the enemy teams rather than Maulie provokes. That's such a liability in the Stoneskin/Sheep era.

Also, just an aside, I would consider running Hege if you're going with a speed nuke team. Your Arbiter is very slow, tbh. Hege A1 with Evil Eye on the enemy speed booster should let you cut in and lock down.

I didn't lose to a team, I lost to a gear set, that's what I'm frustrated about. I get beaten every day, I take it for what it is. Sometimes their team is just better, other times their champs are built better, sometimes the RNG didn't go my way. More often than not it's my mistakes, like bringing Rotos team against UDK team or forgetting to bring Harima against Mortu. You live and you learn, those are mistakes that you learn to avoid and builds you aspire to. Losing to Stoneskin set is none of that. I might as well have lost a dice roll. 

If they didn't have Stoneskin, I would have beaten them the first time; after I knew they had stoneskin, I beat them....there is nothing about the team that was unbeatable, that's my point. Based on what I saw, I had them beat. But you throw in hidden variables that change the entire course of a battle, you're fighting an RNG battle at that point. 

I get it, "eeeew, speed teams are so level 80"...Yeah, when I have 6 go-second teams to go around, I'll ditch them. Until then, if I come across someone with 2 speed teams and I only have one go-second that can hold its own against a speed team, I have to use a speed team against a speed team. And I guess I'm rolling the dice on whether it's a speed team or a speed team in Stoneskin. If you think I somehow feel defeated because of something I had no way of knowing, not a chance. I feel frustrated because the only factor that influenced that battle is one I had no way of knowing. 

Git Gud.  This thread is about regular gold classic arena???

Seriously, this is as bad as complaining about udk 😆 🤣 😂 

Sorry bro....

I have champs for another go-second team, but they are not fully built, I don't have Arena level gear for them.  I'll need to check how fast my Kymar is, but I use him in other teams. 

I'm only in Silver IV, the Arbiter does fine there. The problem is Stoneskin can turn a crappy speed team into a go-second team if you don't bring a buff stripper, and even there, you're playing with RNG. In my position, I still have to distribute my champions according to where they're needed, so when I go up against a 169K team with a Gorgorab lead, I'm comfortable putting this team up against them. But every now and then, their team just wears all Stoneskin, and now your team is sitting ducks. For something that can transform a battle so much to not be seen is just too much randomness. 

I don't see what's so mysterious about Stoneskin in top Arena tiers - every reviver, cleanser and tank is in Stoneskin...who are we hiding from? If I go against a team with Mithrala or UDK, I just assume they are wearing Stoneskin. Same with Hephraak and Mortu. If I'm wrong, even better. Are you afraid someone will see that those champs are in Stoneskin?!....or are you worried that someone will see that they're NOT in Stoneskin?

😂You punk, I ain't taking that "Git Gud" lip from you until our LVL100s can bump me from Top 5 in CvC 😂. You think I get those points in CLassic Arena? lol