Marius said:

Shortmeister said:

I don't play a lot of games but for example in Hearthstone if a card gets nerfed players are given 2 weeks to disenchant the card and receive full cost back ( as opposed to 1/4th that you get normally ).

Hearthstone is probably the most common examples supporters of this idea bring up indeed. There was another gave mentioned, though I can't quite remember the name of it right now. At the same time, Summoners War, Galaxy of Heroes, numerous other games don't do that - at least when I was playing. Unfortunately, while I can see the merit in this idea, it also sets the precedent that could easily lead to unjustified calls for compensation even when "nerfs" are small and insignificant. 

Marius I appreciate your views on the matter, but it does not set a dangerous precedent. Plarium made a mistake, and we the player-base that spend our time and money on the game, are asking for compensation. This is no different than when Plarium gave out small trinkets (gems, CB keys, energy, etc) for game connectivity issues and other client issues. Its all about keeping good faith. 

On paper, a "nerf" might seem small or insignificant to you, but when people put hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars into this game, small changes CAN mean a lot to SOME people. People finely craft their compositions and invest our limited resources into them. An hypothetical like nerfing someone's damage by 5% might not seem like a lot, but maybe now she has no use for my CB roster because I have 3 other hero's who out damage or our perform her now. We invest our hard earned resources into something, but then to have it taken away when we the player are not at fault, is just wrong. So what if "Summoners War, Galaxy of Heroes, and numerous other games don't do that", this is Raid Shadow Legends. Don't you want to be better than those games? The reason why people mention Hearthstone so much is not only because it is a fun game, but because they listen to their players (sometimes slowly) and have the refund mechanic for nerfed cards. Little features like that show good faith and tell me as a player that plarium will take care of me in the future. I understand you need to make money at the end of the day, but you can still do both. Making your player-base even more angry after Plarium is the one at fault multiple times, I'm sure this has to affect the cash flow somehow (even if it is only slightly). There is really two options here.

1. Own up the mistake, compensate players, and restore faith between Plarium and the player-base

2. Send your thoughts and prayers, apologies, and Facebook likes to us and hope that fixes the issue in the future.
a. (Special) Oh no, the player-base is upset and has lost faith in the game decreasing sales slightly

There is only two roads, one makes more money and keeps the player-base happy. This is not rocket science. I know it would take a little dev time to implement a refund feature like this and that will add into the cost, but you give so many players a calming sense a safety. Why should I have to worry about a phone game? That is the whole purpose about a phone game, is to not have to worry. 

I step in your shoes for a second and look at "could easily lead to unjustified calls for compensation." Ok. Say no? That is currently what you are doing at the moment, both upset the playerbase. I would rather have the idea that there is a 50/50 chance that Plarium will refund a "nerfed" champion that I have invested in, than knowing plarium will always say "nope, git gud kid." Please don't give me your apologies, people are tired of the generic HR and corporate defusing responses that lead to nothing meaningful. 

One thing i'd like to talk about a bit is Nerfs VS Buffs.

The human mind is prone to Loss Aversion. Loss aversion theory states that Losses feel 2 times as bad as gains. In terms of games that basically means that a nerf feels a lot worse than a buff feels good.

Blizzard struggled with this for a while during periods of World of warcraft, where nerfs would have to be dished out slowly and spaced out, so the losses of classes wouldn't overtake the gains they got in other fields.

In terms of this game, a nerf to a character that you've invested a lot in is going to feel really bad, and when its presented with no upside at all, its even worse. That simply makes the person feel cheated and betrayed.

Don't get me wrong, i understand that characters need to be brought in line. But when announcing nerfs to a character that people like and not giving anything possitive in return, it feels really bad.

I'd recommend that a nerf to her at least should keep her viable, possibly in line with other champions with %hp attacks on clan boss(since thats what she will be used for). For every step she falls bellow coldheart, its just going to feel that much worse for everyone who invested in her, especially if they don't get the chance to undo after they invested in a character they liked.

It injures trust between the player and the company, and if im to be quite honest, seems kind of like a scam. Now im not saying its intentional, not at all. But if she does become useless or worse than other options, you've basically taken away a lot of resources from people on a bait and switch. People don't like that generally, and it most definetly does not increase the trust.

Anyhow, sorry for the long rant. These things bother me since i work on games myself, and constantly thing about these things.

It's always fun wasting time, money, and resources into beta testing. I have only been paying errr... I mean playing for over a week now. I found out SB is getting nerfed and pulled my first legendary Richtoff The Useless in the same day. It has not been a good day.

Could you confirm whether the devs are considering merging other strong rares— most importantly, Apothecary, Coldheart, and Bellower?

Thanks!

Hi. 

1. Love this game, love playing it and hope too for a long time. 

2. Now I'm not so sure. You just released Steel Bowyer and of course I saw the potential like everyone else and started investing and she is a great and much needed addition to my clan boss team. Very much feeling like this is an intentional money making back handed scheme of Plarium. My trust in you is diminishing fast. 

3. WHY DO YOU NOT RELEASE THESE NOTES/NEWS IN GAME?? I by chance was lucky enough because I am active in game chats that someone had read the notes here and shared what they learned. Why do you not release this very important news on a new champion IN GAME SO THAT EVERYONE WHO PLAYS WILL SEE IT. This makes me think and feel that you are doing this kind of stuff on purpose to make money and nothing else. Trust diminishing even further. How hard would it be for you guys to release notes like this in game? Why don't you. 

4. Having invested in Steel Bowyer I would like to makes some notes on her performance and give feedback as to how I personally think she could be rebalanced. In Clan Boss she's a beast no doubt. It's just her A3 that does sick dmg but in comparison to others! She does half to a third of the dmg my Juliana does who is one of the best cb heroes. My outlaw monk easily does half the dmg she does and he's an uncommon. he's never mentioned for nerfing? He's an uncommon that outperforms many rares epics and legendaries in clan boss because of his specific skills. Why don't you rebalance him?? If steel bowyer is so out of balance!.That's not out of balance in my mind. Juliana does better than a lot of legendaries in clan boss because she has specific skills that work well but she doesn't perform so well elsewhere. Steel Bowyer elsewhere is no better than other rares. I have used her in campaign, arena and dungeons. She is just as balanced as my other rares in these areas. My berserker does more damage than her. My maxed elhain still easily outperforms her. Galek has more use elsewhere than my steel bowyer. Outside of clan boss she is equal too and less than my other rares that I have invested in. So in my mind she actually doesn't need a massive rebalance. I think bringing her A3 from 3x to 2x would be very much a decent rebalance. Even that would be a nasty hit. I'm fact I don't think she should be rebalanced at all. She's very role specific and I don't think she is a massive game changer. 

4. I really appreciate the work and effort Plarium puts in to this game and the difficulty in making game balanced allround but this kind of messy/release and Nerf doesn't seem very player focused but seems more like a backhanded money making scheme that's breaking trust in your player base and ultimately will make this game fail. If I see this kind of thing happen again I will stop playing. 

5. I think you seriously need to consider adding in a compensation ability when you Nerf champions. Timelimited and only for those who have invested. This will go a long way to building trust and giving players options to reinvest if needed. 

6. I really hope you hear what your players are saying and show us you care by making some of these improvements in game mostly RELEASE THESE NOTES IN GAME, STOP RELEASING OP RARES THEN NERFING THEM, BUFF SOME OF THE LEGENDARIES AND RARES YOU KEEP PROMISING, AND RELEASE THESE NOTES AND NEWS IN GAME PLEASE!! 

8. I am trying to give you guys decent feedback and it certainly echoes the voices of many players here. I am trying to do it nicely but you guys really don't do yourselves any favours when it comes to working with and communicating with your players and building trust and appreciation on many levels. I think that's what will ultimately make or break this game. 

Marius, 

to be honest, not even a blinded guy doesn't see, that an enemy HP based attack would hit very hard in cb. 

And to calculate the dmgout in this simple game is not rocket sience.

so there are 3 possibilities

1) ure not testing or calculating a single second new characters at all, just throwing out new pixles

2) dev team is stupid and doesn't understand their own simple gamemechanics

3) it is intended to get nerfed

By all means, there is no other possibility. So the only thing u get out is to apologize and reset this character with full compensation of materials and EP.

cheets zul

Completely agree with the above post.

As an IT-guy my first reaction is: You are not testing champs before releasing them?

Hard to imagine, so that bring us to the next point: Meant to be nerfed?

Thanks... also just leveled her up to 50, fully ascended and booked as well.

The posts about testing are bang on, to not notice that a character you design with a max hp damage attack will do well against the clan boss is kind of unbelievable. So maybe giving her that attack was a mistake?

This is from the champ spotlight page:

Notice anything missing?

So now the devs need to dial her back a bit, just dont penalise players that have used hard/slow to get resources on her.

I hope nothing is intentional, just to make players use up stuff (so they'll spend more) but the tomes upgrade & skill description still being misleading makes me wonder sometimes (plus thats what most of these games seem to do, squeeze money from 'addicted' players)

Notice anything missing?

So now the devs need to dial her back a bit, just dont penalise players that have used hard/slow to get resources on her.

I hope nothing is intentional, just to make players use up stuff (so they'll spend more) but the tomes upgrade & skill description still being misleading makes me wonder sometimes (plus thats what most of these games seem to do, squeeze money from 'addicted' players)

@Marius in one of your posts in this thread you stated "We recognize there was an issue with testing this Champion and we will take steps to avoid it in the future. Due to a number of factors, Champions were shuffled between the packs they were initially planned for, other issues have arisen and required extensive resources to test and remove, so Steel Bowyer more or less slipped through the cracks. But, again, we will do our best to keep her as a strong and a viable Champion."

  Since you do recognize in this situation that there was an issue wouldn't it be suitable to do some kind of Rare tome compensation or such for players that have invested heavily in this champion ?

@Marius in one of your posts in this thread you stated "We recognize there was an issue with testing this Champion and we will take steps to avoid it in the future. Due to a number of factors, Champions were shuffled between the packs they were initially planned for, other issues have arisen and required extensive resources to test and remove, so Steel Bowyer more or less slipped through the cracks. But, again, we will do our best to keep her as a strong and a viable Champion."

  Since you do recognize in this situation that there was an issue wouldn't it be suitable to do some kind of Rare tome compensation or such for players that have invested heavily in this champion ?

 I did not see him on the balance list either.

I know it has probably been said before, so I'm just echoing the suggestion.  

It is really disappointing to pour resources into a champion and see it nerfed.  There should be some compensation (not monetary) for these type of adjustments due to the rarity of tomes that players can receive which go into a champion.  At the very least rares which are overperforming should move to an Epic or Legendary status for those players that have acquired them.  Sure, consider the damage done by the champion, but also consider Increasing the upgrading process for the champion or other options where the investment put into a champion is not lost. 

This kind of thing causes me to hoard the tomes I have because if I invest it into a champion I'm afraid it will get nerfed and I feel like I am losing what I invested in them.    

Just my 2 cents.

Thanks for replying Marius. I really don't want to come across as whiny in these posts, it's just frustrating when stuff like this happens in games (magnified in long grinding/looting ones)

Plus the players don't want tons of free stuff for no reason, just cover for whatever we've glued into a champ that will probably be used a lot less (I know, I know, we havent seen the changes yet)

& I'm now reluctant to use any upgrade on any champ, mainly because of being burnt by similar events in other games, but it'll happen again in this game, no matter how careful the devs are.

You've got a great game here & I really enjoy it, a few tweaks (eg. ugraded % skill descriptions) & it'll be even better.

Cheers 👍

Everyone who spent tomes, energy for levels should be refunded. 

I am curious as to how you can "hotfix" aka "nerf" a champion so fast, but yet let Legendary Champions that have been useless set around for month's??

I guess ya'll need better Dev's...

One's that know how to code and can actually do "Hotfixes"  to any champion, even ones that need "buffing". 

The funny thing is... I'm pretty sure there are folks playing this game that could actually do a better job of balancing, coding and "fixing" champions than the current Devs.

SB was meant to be used in the Fusion, so just add her to this so called list of champions that need to be "Re-Balanced".... and when you start actually fixing your Legendary Champs... then the Epic Champs, and you'll work your way down to the Rare Champs.  I do have a Legendary:  Shirimani in which Chofly (Youtuber) ranked her at 29 in his Legendary Ranking List. 

I liked SB... but I am currently looking for a replacement....I just got Ripper, but he's a MaxHP damage champion, and with only 1 attack seems kinda useless.... oh and he's and Epic!  

zany said:

I am curious as to how you can "hotfix" aka "nerf" a champion so fast, but yet let Legendary Champions that have been useless set around for month's??

I guess ya'll need better Dev's...

It's because they need new management, not better devs.  The management sees profit in nerfing champions.  Makes people have to buy more shards, farm for leveling up other champions, etc. 

They don't see an immediate profit in buffing or fixing champions, so they keep holding it off for new things to sell, like a ton of energy for this ongoing fusion event.  They are not thinking of retention with this game, just immediate revenue.  No idea why, as they are killing their repeat business in the process. 

I have seen at least a few dozen people since this fusion and 1.8 debacle saying they stopped spending money and/or quit altogether because of it.  If that's what it takes for them to learn though, I hope they DO at least learn from it.  After they destroyed my Pain Keeper I bought tomes for, I am most certainly not spending money anymore on the game.