Increase of attack power against special units

26 Replies
User
15 January, 2019, 6:47 PM UTC


I know there is an attack bonus of 50% for cavalry against ranged units and you can research an additional bonus of 75%. But i still do not get how can you increase the normal attack power with an factor of 2.45.

His shaman was Elsa, so he did not get a bonus against ranged from her.
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User
15 January, 2019, 7:33 PM UTC
Is it gems and equipment?
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User
16 January, 2019, 10:24 AM UTC

Gems and equipment should affect both values in the same way, so that does not explain the big difference

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User
16 January, 2019, 3:24 PM UTC

Plarium has put too many numbers into the mixes that even they don't understand it anymore. It's similar to cooking, if you don't write everything down as you go the ingredients eventually get lost into the delicious treats. 

Don't ask them how to make good tasting things, don't ask them how to protect yourself. Just beg for more packs that are cheaper. /Disgust


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User
17 January, 2019, 1:25 AM UTC

O.K. gems and equipment was my first thought, but how do you know they were the same for both of you?

Could your opponent not have better equiment and gems than you?

There  are in game boosts against you, and for your opponent, also, there are things in the knowledge tree that do the same,and theres also VIP level.

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User
20 January, 2019, 10:13 AM UTC
Offence against enemy ranged in the hero skill tree.
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User
21 January, 2019, 11:52 PM UTC

All values shown in the screenshot are the values of the attacker. I would like to know how it is possible to increase the normal attack power of t1 cavalry by an factor of 2.45 against ranged units. (1782 -> 4366)


What i wanted to say in my last post. Gems and equipment should effect the normal attack power of the t1 cavalry and the attack power of the t1 cavalry against ranged in the same way. In my understanding, all attack bonuses (gems, boosts, equipment, research, etc.) are used to calculate the normal attack power. In this case the attacker should have an attack bonus for his cavalry t1 of 1682%.


100 (base attack of t1) x 16,82 + 100 (base attack of t1) = 1782


In a second step all 'offense against enemy ranged' boni are taking into account, to calculate the offense against ranged attack power.

I know the general attack bonus of 50% for cavarly against enemy ranged and a second bonus of 75% against enemy ranged by research in the 'hero' tab.


1782 x (0.5+0.75) + 1782 = 4009.5


In this case 4009.5 should be the maximal value for attack against ranged. Or do I forget another bonus of "attack against enemy ranged"?

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CIM
User
22 January, 2019, 2:59 PM UTC
It seems those statistics do not include equipment ... I accidentily had wrong gear on my first attack (was a simple attack so still won) and anothe rattack same person same troops ... everything the same my stats did not change when my equipment was changed ... but yes I killed more of their troops with right equipment ...
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User
22 January, 2019, 5:06 PM UTC

Nothing that has been posted so far,seems to answer the question.

Most know there are lots of specific things we can acquire that can affect all kinds of statistics in various parts of the game, but unless you have access to these you might not be able to find out everything you would like to know.

 He didnt ask why he lost more troops, at least directly, he asked why is the attack bonus more than he can currently account for.

Rightly or wrongly,he has already discounted equipment, so your change in equipment on a second attack doesnt seem to be the answer either, unless you know differently because you can get the exact bonus hes asking about.

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User
22 January, 2019, 8:00 PM UTC
I do not know the answer.  If the bonus against enemy ranged in the hero skill tree is 50% I can't find another bonus against ranged with Elsa as heroine to make up the difference.  I am not so far along with Aesir, there is nothing giving a specific bonus against ranged as far as I have got - but perhaps higher up those trees there is something.  Or the bonuses for higher level castles?  Have to say both seem unlikely.
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User
23 January, 2019, 5:10 PM UTC

CIM said:


It seems those statistics do not include equipment ... I accidentily had wrong gear on my first attack (was a simple attack so still won) and anothe rattack same person same troops ... everything the same my stats did not change when my equipment was changed ... but yes I killed more of their troops with right equipment ...

When i check the values of my troops at my palace and compare them to the values of my battle reports, i do not see any difference. In my opinion the values of the battle reports are right and take equipment also into account.


I do not understand how do you could kill more troops with your second attack. you always kill 80% of the enemy troops if you win. So increasing your stats should only decrease your losses. Could you explain the scenario a bit further, please?

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CIM
User
24 January, 2019, 12:52 AM UTC
Solstafir said:

CIM said:


It seems those statistics do not include equipment ... I accidentily had wrong gear on my first attack (was a simple attack so still won) and anothe rattack same person same troops ... everything the same my stats did not change when my equipment was changed ... but yes I killed more of their troops with right equipment ...

When i check the values of my troops at my palace and compare them to the values of my battle reports, i do not see any difference. In my opinion the values of the battle reports are right and take equipment also into account.


I do not understand how do you could kill more troops with your second attack. you always kill 80% of the enemy troops if you win. So increasing your stats should only decrease your losses. Could you explain the scenario a bit further, please?

You are right I didn't kill more of their troops ... they killed less of mine ... (I killed more troops per troop lost was what I had in mind but was messed up how I said it).  I am going to look more at that more ... but my stats showed the same in the battle report when I had in one report royal guard gear on and the other attack gear ...
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User
24 January, 2019, 2:42 PM UTC

let see the screenshot in the opening post... base attack is 1782, attack against archer is 245% incrzase, attack against other type of troop is around 195% increase... difference between 195% et 245% is 50%, who is the normal bonus for calvary against archer...

so, seem that formula is somehow like BasicAttack * ( 100% + Unknow95%AgainstAllTroops + 50%BonusCalvalryAgainstArcher )


against archer : 1782 * ( 1 + 0.95 + 0.5 ) = 1782 * 2.45 = 4365

other troop : 1782 * ( 1 + 0.95 ) = 1782 * 1.95 = 3474


seem that calculation fit almost the number in the screenshot from the opening post... bonus of 50% from calvary against archer is apply correctly...


but now, need to find what is these 95% bonus attack who is apply to all troop...


by example, in my case, invader research tree, troop attack II at 12/15 give already 28%... a scrool 10 min troop offense 50% increase it at 78%... VIP lvl 25 give 23% extra...total 97%


already over the 95%... trick is to find what bonus apply on the basic data ( 1782 ) and what bonus apply on all type of unit offense ( the 95% in this case )


same if it remain some unknow, it have be proven that the 50% bonus of calvary against archer was apply correctly... topic solved
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CIM
User
24 January, 2019, 3:07 PM UTC
Makes sense Anesfan ...
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User
3 February, 2019, 2:23 AM UTC

Makes sense, but is wrong :)


Given the super high stats, it's probably not unreasonable to assume that the attacker is a maxed player, at least in the Hero tree.


Using the number from the example we have:

Offence - 1782 (100%)

vs Melee - 3475 (195%: 75% Hero + 20% Shaman)

vs Cavalry - 3118 (175%: 75% Hero)

vs Killers - 3386 (190%: 75% Hero + 15% Shaman)

And here come the interesting bits:

vs Siege: 3118 (that includes 75% Hero) * 1.1 = 3430

vs Ranged: 3118 (75% from Hero again) * 1.4 = 4366


Now, the bit I would VERY much like to know is WHY vs siege and vs ranged is 10% and 40% (rather than 25% and 50%, BUG?):

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User
3 February, 2019, 10:15 AM UTC

Aylwin-T1 said:


... I would VERY much like to know is WHY ...

Me too... but plarium will not give info aboutt the internal of the game... all we can do is testing and guess...


your screenshot is about ennemy data... can be that you have some debuf running who reduce the ennemy offense like in the various screenshot below...









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User
3 February, 2019, 11:49 AM UTC
nope. no debuff. no VIP. zero military points.
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User
4 February, 2019, 9:44 AM UTC

well, i have no idea... and as for testing, my accounts are too much old ( years )... need somebody new who do testing from the begin to when reach high level...


will be a huge job because game have so much thing going on that we know nothing about...


 
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User
10 February, 2019, 8:39 PM UTC

Aylwin-T1 said:



And here come the interesting bits:

vs Siege: 3118 (that includes 75% Hero) * 1.1 = 3430

vs Ranged: 3118 (75% from Hero again) * 1.4 = 4366


Now, the bit I would VERY much like to know is WHY vs siege and vs ranged is 10% and 40% (rather than 25% and 50%, BUG?):

Thank you for your input. This is what I have been looking for. So I did not overlook any bonuses but calculated the resulting attack power against ranged units wrong.


Looks like the general 25% bonus works like a 1.1 factor instead of 1.25 factor (for the 50% bonus a 1.4 factor instead of 1.5).

The large increase in attack power is due to the fact that the bonuses in this case are not additive but multiplicative.


Thank you very much Aylwin-T.

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User
10 February, 2019, 8:41 PM UTC

Aylwin-T1 said:


nope. no debuff. no VIP. zero military points.

As far as I know, the debuffs are not included in the values of the reports.

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