This topic is closed

About the Persian positions and the answers from Plarium Games

13 Replies
Hundigo
29 September, 2016, 10:31 PM UTC

Let's have for ones a really discussion about the PP's based on facts, instead of airproofed tittle's and emotional based messages. Let's have the facts straight for ones about it. Prooved also with the answers from gamesupport about it. One of their arguments in their answers is that they encourage the use of the forum about it to discuss the PP's. 


I'm not gonna go totally in detail about it with also the explanations from the moderators and the community manager about all the remarks players had about the PP's in the past, even I can do it, but it would take some time and a lot of text to refer all the topics started by players and Plarium Games and all the answers, specially given by the moderators and the  community manager from Plarium Games in the topics started from the players.

I think for all players; the mainquestion is: " do you gain army from the persians positions or do you loose army from the persian positions ?"

I self I'm in the game also hegemon of a coalition and I told my members always that you gain army from the persian positions. And I teached them how they could do them in the best way to indeed gain army from it. 

Of course, I self doesn't have controll of what Plarium Games does by the gamemechanics, so that's a part I couldn't explain to my members. 

Do I self do the persian positions ? Yes, and I was really fun of them when  I started the game myself. 

Till Plarium Games changed it. I had to addept it, like all the rest of the players and with the first changes Plarium Games did, I could still convince the members to doing them. The first change I'm aware of and that was also on the forum about it was indeed an advantage for the players, specially the lower lvl ones. Instead of doing them without any reward and then one big reward, they could do them constantly with the partial pay outs the new changes brought. 

Not that long time ago, plarium games did again a change about the PP's. The reason for plarium games was that some ( a few) had seen the system and where able to take advantage of it. No one knows what advantage at all that would be what other players couldn't have but hey, news is news and if it isn't breaking news, well at least you are on the page :-)


With all the changes plarium games did at the PP's , I self discovered also some difficulties about it. So a few days ago, I've contacted again gamesupport about it. Ticketnumber ; [#XPG-480-46961]: persians positions

And I had an answer back from gamesupport about it, it was this;

Edited.

Please do not post your conversation with our Support Team on Forum. Check the Firum rules.

Alyona

My question was actually at them; hey there is something wrong with the pay-outs you know . And if you don't know, well have a look to it and explain me it. For plarium games nothing is wrong about the PP's . It's even more, they exclude the possibility of any irregularities and break - downs in their functioning. 

That's already the first remark I have over here. Why by every maintenance you have to fix some bugs, when you tell here that there are no any possible bugs or errros at the PP's ? 

Second remark I have also; is that I asked also to give me the details on what troops I used and what troops I gained back at the PP's. Something even the communitiy manager of plarium games described as a good advice given by another player. I've also asked that question in my gameticket but didn't had my answer from plarium games about it. 

Third remark I have is about " Having considered your recent payouts, you could probably come to a conclusion that the Reward System was out of sync with your investments. "  How could I ever know that the Reward System was out of sync with my investments ? its always told on the forum by the moderators that there is the banksystem. Ones the bank payed back, you have a new pay-out. Now they tell there is some of synchronisation also about it :s ....  I then ask myself ; "what more you gonna invent plarium games ? "

The last time you had indeed many complains from players on the forum about the PP's and that they loose a lot of army at it, without any pay-out for it. I had these problems also. 

So seen the answer from plarium games about my first gameticket about it, I did another test today. What did I do ? 

I had a pay - out at lvl 122 defence side and a pay-out at lvl 127 offence side. The last one I only did, because I didn't had an acceptable pay out at the previous lvl's seen my losses I had on them. But the last one was also the most pay-out value. 

So what I did ?  And what I also talked about it in my own coalition. I've asked myself; " is that pay-out for a PVE (person versius enviroment) really enough to continue in the game ? "

The conclusion is; it isn't . So you can't use your pay-outs anymore as sufficient troopamount to finish the new persian positions you have. What does that really means ? I had a pay out at lvl 122 defence side and a pay-out at lvl 127 offence side. I've used all these troops (and only these troops at first) to finish all the new PP's I had .  I've ended up at lvl 75 defence side and lvl 92 offence side. When you finish PP's , you also gain again some troops back. After I've used my previous 2 pay-outs, I've used also these. The result of it was that I've ended up at lvl 113, rested at 2 bars, so not enough troops to finish them , and I had to go up at lvl 128 at offence side, but was not able to finish it.  So from the 60 daily persian positions I have, I still have 9 not able to finish them, because of the lack of troops, even I used all the troops I gained from the PP's to start with. 

That gives us a few conclusions;

1) what you gain,  seen the last updates and changes , is not enough to continue at the PP's at all. 

2) so you have 2 options left; A) build the troops you lack to finish them or B) revive the units and pay drachma's for it. 

Point A can of course be mentioned now by plarium games and the moderators as the solution you have to use for it. Untill they have to explain how long the building time to finish these lvl's. 

Point B is what of course plarium games wish you use for it. But can they also explain why ? After all, it's called a 'free game', so you must be able to play it for free also. Seen the results it isn't possible at all. And that for a PVE  ....   That is something else then a PVP . 

So today I wrote again another ticket to Plarium Games. To have an explanation why for a PVE, you don't gain enough back from it to be able to continue  ?  Because it's PVE.  Write on the forum and in mails that you can't explain the gamemechanics about it, doesn't give you the right to "steel " troops from the players, no matter in what circumstances. 

Players doesn't gain enough troops at the PVE (persian positions) to simply continue the game, that is the conclusion based on facts. 

You can argue now, based on my text of course, that players has to build the missing troops for it. My argumentation for the moment is; they did already. In fact even more, they've also used their troops they gained by daily coaliton quests, + they also used their troops they gained as reward for daily loging in, + they also used their troops they gained in the past at the PVE (PP''s ) and the PVP's. What have they have to do more ? They can't, they already used all the options they have as "free players", so you force them actually to buy (also revive troops ) for it. Is that your so called "free game " ? 

I didn't even talked about "gaining " at the PP's, it's only about able to continue in your called " free game". 


And I'm of course curious what Plarium Games has to give me as answer on my second gameticket about it. 



EDIT I: 


And that's the next gameticket question about it , so let's see what they have to answer now ? 

gameticketnumber; #TYL-749-40789

It wouldn't surprise me if they would come up with another instantly invented new rule about it 


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Alyona Kolomiitseva
Community Manager
30 September, 2016, 10:41 AM UTC

I have some good news for you. I hope


As you probably know I've recently passed your feedback about PPs to our devs. They understand your position, but before making any changes they want to analyze their own data as well. So they are waiting for analytics data to check the activity of players on PPs and make a decision afterwards. Right now I don't know if they decide to change PPs or leave them as they are.


As soon as I get more information, I will let you know.

Plarium Community Manager. Please note that I will be unable to respond to your private messages, review your tickets, or check your account information. All technical issues should be directed to our Support Team at plrm.me/Support_Plarium
UTC +2:00
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Wy San Luis
30 September, 2016, 3:53 PM UTC

Alyona Kolomiitseva said:


 Right now I don't know if they decide to change PPs or leave them as they are.

That would be a bad news if they will change it again. If they make another changes with PPs, it means "killing our efforts" again in figuring out how it works. Unless of course if they will change it back to the old system or something easier and bigger payouts.

"Those who seek to die will live, and those who seek to live will die."
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RIX forum RETIRED
1 October, 2016, 12:07 AM UTC

My issue as well as others in my coalition is that we are not getting two sided payouts anymore. I am getting 100% offense or 100% defense which hurts when you play both sides to reach your next payout.  Since that last change after this so-called exploit, everyone is complaining that their troops are stuck in the oracle.


I am not finding any effective method of reaching my payouts and payouts are not making any sense.

Here is another odd thing that I have discovered:

Example 1: If your last payout was level 70, and you pay the bank back plus interest, if you hit anything above 70, you don't get your payout. It actually adds more to your bank until you actually match resources paid equaling that level. 

Example two: If your last payout was level 70 and you've paid the bank back, and you hit a level 65 because you don't have any level 70's, you don't get a level 70 payout worth of troops and you will have to hit a level 5 (guessing but it could be slightly higher) to complete the payout (ideally) or the lowest level you have for the remaining payout.  The problem with that is this: if you are owed the equivalent of a

level 5 but have only a level 40 for your lowest, you payout reflects the difference between level 70 & 65 but the additional troops lost do not count towards the next loan.

I can say this, the system is definitely broken.

A T H E N A
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Kakos
1 October, 2016, 1:56 AM UTC
RIX said:

I am getting 100% offense or 100% defense which hurts when you play both sides to reach your next payout.  .

I'm sorry but my results are; from Olive Grove lvl 65 I got Macs 158, M. Pelts 791 and from Vineyard lvl 63 I got Trojans 1296, Sariss 385.
Vae victis
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RIX forum RETIRED
1 October, 2016, 12:33 PM UTC
Kakos said:

RIX said:

I am getting 100% offense or 100% defense which hurts when you play both sides to reach your next payout.  .

I'm sorry but my results are; from Olive Grove lvl 65 I got Macs 158, M. Pelts 791 and from Vineyard lvl 63 I got Trojans 1296, Sariss 385.
Absolutely, many members are getting both in their payouts.  I am not
A T H E N A
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Alyona Kolomiitseva
Community Manager
3 October, 2016, 10:55 AM UTC
Wy San Luis said:

That would be a bad news if they will change it again. If they make another changes with PPs, it means "killing our efforts" again in figuring out how it works. Unless of course if they will change it back to the old system or something easier and bigger payouts.

Why is it so bad? Players say they have lower payouts and no point for doing PPs now. Right? I've passed this info to devs and they said: "Ok, we'll check our info and probably improve PPs, who knows". I don't think they'll make some bad changes. They're interested in high activity on PPs.
Plarium Community Manager. Please note that I will be unable to respond to your private messages, review your tickets, or check your account information. All technical issues should be directed to our Support Team at plrm.me/Support_Plarium
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Hundigo
3 October, 2016, 2:00 PM UTC

How can Plarium Games been intrested in high activity on the PP's when they saw already a huge drop of player numbers in the past about it ? 

They did nothing at that moment, it's even worse , they changed them again and even without giving the players the right information about it. 


We players have our own data on what is going on in the game. 

A) you have the coalition ranking; so you can see how each member does in the coalition about raiding, attacking, sieging, tributes, defending and persian positions. But you can also see what the overall is doing if you press the "all" button instead of your coalitionmembers and you can also press the "friends" button. 

If we transfer that now only  to the PP's overview, it was a nice competition extra in the game to see how you was doing in comparising with your "gamefriends". Ones Plarium Games started with the changes, you saw also the 'friends' in your list that didn't do them anymore. In fact there is nearly any competion left of it. You can see it when you press the "friends" button , but also when you press the "all" button. 


B) about the second gamesupport ticket mentioned in my start message in this topic;

From  Plarium Games the same answer; nothing is wrong with it, the case is "closed" for them. They only encourage me to discuss it on the forum about it, because that's the only medium they check for it. 

I have for the moment more then 30.000 high value troops stucked at the PP's without any pay-out from it. And I just checked it again; I would need 700+ promachos to finish that lvl 128 offence position and about 2.600 theuphoris to finish that lvl 123 defence position. There's also a persian position quest and I'm almost at the maximum reward. I still need 3700 points and then I have the maximum reward. 

My reward for the moment, and I only talk about the troops now is; 145 imperial promachos or 290 imperial theuphoris. So no matter what I would choose tomorrow as reward, I dont have enough troops to finish these positions, no matter if I would choose the promachos or the theuphoris for it. 

Let's take the hypothical; that would build these troops.  I need phalanx units, but I can only build one type of them at the same time. For theuphoris it would take me : 50minutes for 1, but I need about 2.600 = 2600/ 24 (1 hour each as easy to do the math) = 108 days. 

For the promachos it would take me : 700/12 ( it's almost 2 hours to build one) = 58 days. 

it's totally about 166 days to finish these 2 open persian positions. that's about 5 and 1/2 months building time and that without any proof that I would have at least my 30.000 units back as pay-out again. You can indeed reduce that time a little bit, if you are queud up in the other troopbuildings also, but it's not that I can reduce that time with much more. If it would be with 10% at the end it would be much. 


So with designing an algoritm at the Persian Positions and put new indicators to it also, with this as result, you dev team thinks they can keep players active at the persian positions ?   I'm not gonna build again 6 months troops to not even know what the result of it would be. 

If you didn't made your conclusions, I did mine. Army is stucked at the Persian Positions (the so called bank) , and there's no way that  I can have them out of there with a normall gameplay. That would take me again almost 6 months, without any activity in that timeframe on the Persian Positions. And not only this, that means also for almost 6 months no activity at other quests, because I can't afford loosing army because I need them at the Persian Positions. 



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mercenary
5 October, 2016, 5:23 AM UTC

I must agree to agree... Positions payouts are broken again...  



Plarium's after your wallet...lol     USER BEWARE ! 

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Alyona Kolomiitseva
Community Manager
5 October, 2016, 7:37 AM UTC
mercenary said:

I must agree to agree... Positions payouts are broken again...  



Again? When? 
Plarium Community Manager. Please note that I will be unable to respond to your private messages, review your tickets, or check your account information. All technical issues should be directed to our Support Team at plrm.me/Support_Plarium
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Wy San Luis
5 October, 2016, 5:33 PM UTC

Alyona Kolomiitseva said:


Wy San Luis said:

That would be a bad news if they will change it again. If they make another changes with PPs, it means "killing our efforts" again in figuring out how it works. Unless of course if they will change it back to the old system or something easier and bigger payouts.

Why is it so bad? Players say they have lower payouts and no point for doing PPs now. Right? I've passed this info to devs and they said: "Ok, we'll check our info and probably improve PPs, who knows". I don't think they'll make some bad changes. They're interested in high activity on PPs.

Sounds good. But me and some friends are gaining from PPs now. Of course after heavy losses in trial and error. So if that new system will change the mechanics, that would be another weeks or months of trial and error. Time is not gold. Because when you lose gold, you still have an opportunity to get it back, look for another or buy some. But no matter what you do, you can never get back even a single second of the time you lose. "Time is life!"


But if that change is really as good as it sounds, like same mechanics but just increase in payouts, of course will look forward for it.


And as the community manager of this forum, can you make an exemption and give us your coords so that everyone can raid you if it turns out bad? 
"Those who seek to die will live, and those who seek to live will die."
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Alyona Kolomiitseva
Community Manager
6 October, 2016, 8:28 AM UTC
Wy San Luis said:

And as the community manager of this forum, can you make an exemption and give us your coords so that everyone can raid you if it turns out bad? 

I don't play on public servers.
Plarium Community Manager. Please note that I will be unable to respond to your private messages, review your tickets, or check your account information. All technical issues should be directed to our Support Team at plrm.me/Support_Plarium
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RIX forum RETIRED
7 October, 2016, 1:44 AM UTC

Problem with "figuring out" Persians is that people keep it a secret instead of sharing. I've retired from playing them since the last change and quite frankly the pace of the game has slowed down considerably since they revised Persians. hardly any battles anymore. Build times are way off too, but I digress. 

Name the last thing that was implemented to benefit the players since they cut raid and siege times in half almost two years ago that doesn'y cost drachma.

A T H E N A
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Alyona Kolomiitseva
Community Manager
7 October, 2016, 9:22 AM UTC
RIX said:

Problem with "figuring out" Persians is that people keep it a secret instead of sharing. I've retired from playing them since the last change and quite frankly the pace of the game has slowed down considerably since they revised Persians. hardly any battles anymore. Build times are way off too, but I digress. 

Name the last thing that was implemented to benefit the players since they cut raid and siege times in half almost two years ago that doesn'y cost drachma.

Why do they keep it in a secret? Isn't it better to share and improve your strategy, test it with different people?
Plarium Community Manager. Please note that I will be unable to respond to your private messages, review your tickets, or check your account information. All technical issues should be directed to our Support Team at plrm.me/Support_Plarium
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