EMPERORS LEAGUE WAS HACKER ON 21 SET2017

91 Reply
Tichapaty
24 September, 2017, 5:22 PM UTC

Guys ...  the account was Hacked ... to be hacked you do not need to had shared it .... some of you are computer expert so no need to give you a definition

That some of you prefer to think the opposite to clear your  mind  if you have it , of what they are doing does not excuse the acts they had or the fact that you continue to hit there fortress ... simple as that 


 i really would like to know also from wich league is Iron Apex RA . 


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Red
24 September, 2017, 6:12 PM UTC

Tychi said:


I have enjoy reading your last few posts Red, very intelligent.


You cant blame DJ for pushing the 'Account Sharing' side of the coin as this is highly likely what has happened. That being said you have stated, Plarium have said that this was not the case and the account was hacked. As I have not seen an official statement from Plarium I will assume that has been done behind closed doors with Frenzie/Emps and I will take your word for it that this is true.

The question now is  'What do Plarium do?'.

Now if it was Plaruin who were hacked then they have really no choice but to do a full Roll Back imo

Now if it was Frenzie's computer that was hacked then Plarium don't have any obligations to do anything and as harsh as that will be then so be it.


If it is the latter then I would be happy for Plaruim to reinstate the account in full with a statement going out to every player stating that this is a one off compensation and it will not be done again so please double check all your computer security.

I know there will be players on both sides arguing that Frenzie should get nothing back and others saying "What about my troops?". Plarium will not please everybody in this case no matter what they do. Even with a full Roll Back there will be another group of players who potentially lose out.


Once that side of the situation is sorted then for me the more important part is finding the person/s who were involved. I'm not sure what Plarium can do (not my area of expertise).  If I was doing the investigation I would start at the point that there was more than 1 person involved. For all the players involved in the initial attack on Emps Fortress between the moment the War request was accepted and the 1st downgrade I would assume at 1 of them players knew the 'Hacker' of had contact with then beforehand and knew what was happening. With this I would ban all them accounts until they prove otherwise. This step alone wound deter any future attempts of this kind.

I do not blame djmoody for stating his honest opinion.  I am just reminding people that a representative of Plarium did confirm on the forum that the account was hacked.  The investigation is still ongoing and certain details cannot be shared without potentially compromising the investigation.  

You are also correct that no matter what Plarium does, it will be impossible for them to make everyone happy.  A server rollback would make right for all involved, but it would also cause serious inconvenience and possible loss of really good luck with RNG such as a really good bg payout or winning the Plarium lottery.  Also, while a server rollback may erase the damage that was done, it does not prevent future harm from being done (only closing the vulnerability that was exploited by the criminals would do that).  

Your suggestion of banning those who were involved in the initial attack on the fort has one problem.  How do you prove what you did or did not know?  It is highly unlikely that someone sent out in game messages saying "Hey everyone, we hacked Emp's marshal and sabotaged the league, lets all attack!"  I would think it reasonable for Plarium to review the in game messages of the players involved just in case someone was that foolish and for them to punish those who clearly were in the know.  Plarium does not have the authority to demand record of those players' communications outside the game (such as via TS3 or facebook).

I do believe that Plarium does need to take decisive action.  If they track down the criminal or criminals, they should not just ban them, but also persue legal action against them.  In game, players should not be permitted to benefit from those criminal actions.  Allowing people to keep their ill gotten gains will simply encourage further criminal actions down the line.  
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IronApex Turok
25 September, 2017, 1:14 AM UTC
what if they just wipe server 1 and start all over?
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Red
25 September, 2017, 4:51 AM UTC

IronApex Turok said:


what if they just wipe server 1 and start all over?

An interesting idea.  It brings up the issue of digital property.  How much right do players have to their accounts, troops, etc, whether bought or earned?  It is true that there are players who quit and abandon their in game property.  That is the choice of the players who quit though.  I'd assume that if Plarium took away all in game assets from all players on the server, it would create quite an uproar, demands for refunds, etc.  From a business standpoint, that would be disastrous.  

If they did choose to pursue something like that, could possibly keep players happy by gifting them pixels (troops, items, and sapphires to replace the digital property that was erased) or issuing gift certificates that could be used only on Plarium's games to compensate for the value of the digital property erased.  

I don't know all the legalities nor do I know what Plarium would be held liable for if they did just delete the server and start over.  Precedent I've seen from games that have shut down is one day you try to log in and find out that the game is gone, no refunds, no recourse.  Sometimes the platform that hosted the game gives out gift certificates to keep the customers on the platform and spending on their other games.
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IronApex Turok
25 September, 2017, 8:18 AM UTC

Red said:


IronApex Turok said:


what if they just wipe server 1 and start all over?

An interesting idea.  It brings up the issue of digital property.  How much right do players have to their accounts, troops, etc, whether bought or earned?  It is true that there are players who quit and abandon their in game property.  That is the choice of the players who quit though.  I'd assume that if Plarium took away all in game assets from all players on the server, it would create quite an uproar, demands for refunds, etc.  From a business standpoint, that would be disastrous.  

If they did choose to pursue something like that, could possibly keep players happy by gifting them pixels (troops, items, and sapphires to replace the digital property that was erased) or issuing gift certificates that could be used only on Plarium's games to compensate for the value of the digital property erased.  

I don't know all the legalities nor do I know what Plarium would be held liable for if they did just delete the server and start over.  Precedent I've seen from games that have shut down is one day you try to log in and find out that the game is gone, no refunds, no recourse.  Sometimes the platform that hosted the game gives out gift certificates to keep the customers on the platform and spending on their other games.

well...remember, its coming. 


aristocrat just spent half a billion dollars to buy plarium, they arent about to spend another bucket of money to convert an out dated game to HTML5 after flash dies in less than 2 years.


so one day soon we will log in to a message saying the game has been shut down. 


these lost accounts recently are trivial compared to whats coming. 
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Oracle
25 September, 2017, 9:37 AM UTC

IronApex Turok said:

well...remember, its coming. 


aristocrat just spent half a billion dollars to buy plarium, they arent about to spend another bucket of money to convert an out dated game to HTML5 after flash dies in less than 2 years.


so one day soon we will log in to a message saying the game has been shut down. 


these lost accounts recently are trivial compared to whats coming. 

These is getting old. Plarium is not ever going to let the game die. They told us so, I even checked with them last year when there where rumors of flash dying. 

When they make any game they put  life span of 10 years on them. All the financing and maintenance for the game, in the coming ten years comes from them, and investors. Then as players spend money and they earn money from other things not limited to advertisements. They put some commission on that, adding money on the game as they go. 

By now, according to what they told me, the game can make it for 25 years at least, that is provided that the cost to maintain for it stays the same, and resources don't deplete, or developers quit. 

As for converting the game to HTML 5, the first face was completed last year, and a game was established to check and study all aspect of it. They made a deal with throne to run their game in HTML 5. The transfer is underway, and will be completed soon. 

Limitation with HTML 5 is what is hindering the process, web gl is not that good in running games with too much graphics, especially 3 D content. But they will complete the transfer in time. Right now they are focusing on improving the game, making sure that most features are already implemented before the game transfer, like new units, and buildings. 

Next year and 2019, they will include many contents and features for these purpose. they are also hiring more stuff in developments, IT, design and customer services( more CM and supports and Mods) and cutting back on teams that aren't useful like the security team( they are unable to deal with alts and master, plus FB is doing most of their work). 

By estimate they will be done with transfer before fall 2019. If they want to deal with many bugs they could do it in a month, but they don't want that. They want to know what they are dealing with, Throne is a learning curve. 

Biohazard has killed the forum.
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ThatGuy
25 September, 2017, 10:00 AM UTC

Oracle said:


IronApex Turok said:

well...remember, its coming. 


aristocrat just spent half a billion dollars to buy plarium, they arent about to spend another bucket of money to convert an out dated game to HTML5 after flash dies in less than 2 years.


so one day soon we will log in to a message saying the game has been shut down. 


these lost accounts recently are trivial compared to whats coming. 

These is getting old. Plarium is not ever going to let the game die. They told us so, I even checked with them last year when there where rumors of flash dying. 

When they make any game they put  life span of 10 years on them. All the financing and maintenance for the game, in the coming ten years comes from them, and investors. Then as players spend money and they earn money from other things not limited to advertisements. They put some commission on that, adding money on the game as they go. 

By now, according to what they told me, the game can make it for 25 years at least, that is provided that the cost to maintain for it stays the same, and resources don't deplete, or developers quit. 

As for converting the game to HTML 5, the first face was completed last year, and a game was established to check and study all aspect of it. They made a deal with throne to run their game in HTML 5. The transfer is underway, and will be completed soon. 

Limitation with HTML 5 is what is hindering the process, web gl is not that good in running games with too much graphics, especially 3 D content. But they will complete the transfer in time. Right now they are focusing on improving the game, making sure that most features are already implemented before the game transfer, like new units, and buildings. 

Next year and 2019, they will include many contents and features for these purpose. they are also hiring more stuff in developments, IT, design and customer services( more CM and supports and Mods) and cutting back on teams that aren't useful like the security team( they are unable to deal with alts and master, plus FB is doing most of their work). 

By estimate they will be done with transfer before fall 2019. If they want to deal with many bugs they could do it in a month, but they don't want that. They want to know what they are dealing with, Throne is a learning curve. 

If the game is profitable enough, it may be worth it to update to the new format.  Is what you are quoting a specific article or a thread on the forum? 


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Oracle
25 September, 2017, 10:11 AM UTC

ThatGuy said:

If the game is profitable enough, it may be worth it to update to the new format.  Is what you are quoting a specific article or a thread on the forum? 

What The CM, some guy in support told me. 

Plus some reading on Parium.com

The game is profitable. Plarium has been on the most profitable games list since 2013. The game is doing even better on Facebook. That is why they sold it as such a high price. 

TD was the most profitable game in 2015 on facebook, given that plarium is only 9 years old in the game designing environment and they're beating guys like sony that is something.

Biohazard has killed the forum.
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Trentos
25 September, 2017, 10:55 AM UTC

After a couple of days for things to settle down, where are we at?

Still the same players trying to justify this low act. Am I surprised? Not really. As usual it seems that some believe the digital world is some anonymous sandpit where rule of law do not exist. Quite honestly, I find it sad that people hold beliefs like this in today's times where the internet has become an important part of everyday life. But I will resist calling individuals out for their twisted beliefs.

Basically, breaking into to somebody's home is criminal. And that is what this was. How the crook got his hands on the keys is totally irrelevant and I for one think that continued justifications of this in the forums should be deleted. After all aren't those proposing such rubbish just promoting similar incidents? Some posts even promote it as part of some deranged 'meta-game'.

So lets get down to the details that actually matter. That is what has happened, and could possibly happen to any member of the community.

1. Stormfall account accessed by somebody other than the owner of said account

2. $1000's of dollars of investment into the game destroyed by culprit

3. Subsequent damage to not one, but two leagues, with hijacked account


I ask anybody to explain why these facts should be ignored by the community. Is this really the type of community that we have? 'Win at all costs' even if you have to lower yourself to these extremes? 

Personally, I do not believe that only one person was involved. This was a coordinated effort with one league Marshall already admitting guilt that they had prior knowledge. Rather than post about the intricacies of how to hack somebodies account (why haven't those posts been deleted mods?) why don't people consider the obvious fact - someone gained from this low act. That was what this is all about.

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vakonziko
25 September, 2017, 3:16 PM UTC
Trentos said:

After a couple of days for things to settle down, where are we at?

Still the same players trying to justify this low act. Am I surprised? Not really. As usual it seems that some believe the digital world is some anonymous sandpit where rule of law do not exist. Quite honestly, I find it sad that people hold beliefs like this in today's times where the internet has become an important part of everyday life. But I will resist calling individuals out for their twisted beliefs.

Basically, breaking into to somebody's home is criminal. And that is what this was. How the crook got his hands on the keys is totally irrelevant and I for one think that continued justifications of this in the forums should be deleted. After all aren't those proposing such rubbish just promoting similar incidents? Some posts even promote it as part of some deranged 'meta-game'.

So lets get down to the details that actually matter. That is what has happened, and could possibly happen to any member of the community.

1. Stormfall account accessed by somebody other than the owner of said account

2. $1000's of dollars of investment into the game destroyed by culprit

3. Subsequent damage to not one, but two leagues, with hijacked account


I ask anybody to explain why these facts should be ignored by the community. Is this really the type of community that we have? 'Win at all costs' even if you have to lower yourself to these extremes? 

Personally, I do not believe that only one person was involved. This was a coordinated effort with one league Marshall already admitting guilt that they had prior knowledge. Rather than post about the intricacies of how to hack somebodies account (why haven't those posts been deleted mods?) why don't people consider the obvious fact - someone gained from this low act. That was what this is all about.

They obviously frozen emperors and gained time with that hack, but thats temporary thing. Sooner or later they will recover and what needs to be done, will be done.
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Fortuneteller
25 September, 2017, 3:40 PM UTC

djmoody said:


Yeah I agree with you.

It's below my personal belt also. It isn't something that I would do. 

If I were to espionage it would be to sow discord and distrust to break the cohesiveness of a league and try and pull it apart from the inside, not just press the self destruct button and kick all the members.

(...)

knowing people here are working to undermine trust, deliberately cause harm to others, and it is now what... a renowned skill (?) that is recognised and encouraged on this forum... is just sickening. Mommy must be proud.

FT
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IronApex Turok
25 September, 2017, 4:46 PM UTC

Oracle said:


IronApex Turok said:

well...remember, its coming. 


aristocrat just spent half a billion dollars to buy plarium, they arent about to spend another bucket of money to convert an out dated game to HTML5 after flash dies in less than 2 years.


so one day soon we will log in to a message saying the game has been shut down. 


these lost accounts recently are trivial compared to whats coming. 

These is getting old. Plarium is not ever going to let the game die. They told us so, I even checked with them last year when there where rumors of flash dying. 

When they make any game they put  life span of 10 years on them. All the financing and maintenance for the game, in the coming ten years comes from them, and investors. Then as players spend money and they earn money from other things not limited to advertisements. They put some commission on that, adding money on the game as they go. 

By now, according to what they told me, the game can make it for 25 years at least, that is provided that the cost to maintain for it stays the same, and resources don't deplete, or developers quit. 

As for converting the game to HTML 5, the first face was completed last year, and a game was established to check and study all aspect of it. They made a deal with throne to run their game in HTML 5. The transfer is underway, and will be completed soon. 

Limitation with HTML 5 is what is hindering the process, web gl is not that good in running games with too much graphics, especially 3 D content. But they will complete the transfer in time. Right now they are focusing on improving the game, making sure that most features are already implemented before the game transfer, like new units, and buildings. 

Next year and 2019, they will include many contents and features for these purpose. they are also hiring more stuff in developments, IT, design and customer services( more CM and supports and Mods) and cutting back on teams that aren't useful like the security team( they are unable to deal with alts and master, plus FB is doing most of their work). 

By estimate they will be done with transfer before fall 2019. If they want to deal with many bugs they could do it in a month, but they don't want that. They want to know what they are dealing with, Throne is a learning curve. 

Yes, developed for a 10 year life span, but last year Avi Shaleel announced that  since Plariums refocus onto mobile platforms, browser games lifespans were being cut. i think we;ve all seen the HUGE increase in things we have to buy to compete to reduce the 10 year lifespan of the game. 


making a flash game work in HTML5, like you said, is expensive.  by the end of this year plarium will have seen the ROI they expected from this game and will be looking to cut ties with it.   


plarium's annual profit is $200mil.  being in the hole now $500mil, they wont be spending the millions of dollars to recode and fix html5 incompatibility issues. 
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Zwelgje
25 September, 2017, 5:56 PM UTC

djmoody said:


With regards to roll-back (and this isn't an argument against it, just an observation).

They won't do one because of the monumental amount of work that will be involved and the sheer number of customer's it will impact and upset (bear in mind it's now been days since it happened).

Very few roll backs occur. It has to be a really big all server all player affecting bug/glitch/exploit for them to take that drastic measure.

You don't turn a problem that involves a small amount of players into one that affects everyone negatively. Much simpler to compensate the people involved if you believe that is appropriate. 

As to this:

You cant blame DJ for pushing the 'Account Sharing' side of the coin as this is highly likely what has happened


I know beyond all reasonable doubt what happened. I wouldn't put my credibility on the line for a blind hunch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XOzyBQ594E&feature=youtu.be&t=3

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Tychi
25 September, 2017, 8:43 PM UTC

Zwelgje said:


djmoody said:


With regards to roll-back (and this isn't an argument against it, just an observation).

They won't do one because of the monumental amount of work that will be involved and the sheer number of customer's it will impact and upset (bear in mind it's now been days since it happened).

Very few roll backs occur. It has to be a really big all server all player affecting bug/glitch/exploit for them to take that drastic measure.

You don't turn a problem that involves a small amount of players into one that affects everyone negatively. Much simpler to compensate the people involved if you believe that is appropriate. 

As to this:

You cant blame DJ for pushing the 'Account Sharing' side of the coin as this is highly likely what has happened


I know beyond all reasonable doubt what happened. I wouldn't put my credibility on the line for a blind hunch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XOzyBQ594E&feature=youtu.be&t=3

You could well be right Zwelgje. Let me think , errr.....Considering DJ hasn't posted since I asked the question I would say you are right Zwelgje.


I'm curious to know Dj's answer as I know what league the culprit comes from (didn't need Sherlock for that 1) and as a betting man I know who the odds on favourite is as well lol.  
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Trentos
26 September, 2017, 4:23 AM UTC

He's probably been too busy posting his warped opinion on the incident in the French sub-forum where the French community were in support of compensation. Yeah that's how far he will go to spread his BS.

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Gadheras
26 September, 2017, 6:54 AM UTC

Oracle said:


IronApex Turok said:

well...remember, its coming. 


aristocrat just spent half a billion dollars to buy plarium, they arent about to spend another bucket of money to convert an out dated game to HTML5 after flash dies in less than 2 years.


so one day soon we will log in to a message saying the game has been shut down. 


these lost accounts recently are trivial compared to whats coming. 

These is getting old. Plarium is not ever going to let the game die. They told us so, I even checked with them last year when there where rumors of flash dying. 

When they make any game they put  life span of 10 years on them. All the financing and maintenance for the game, in the coming ten years comes from them, and investors. Then as players spend money and they earn money from other things not limited to advertisements. They put some commission on that, adding money on the game as they go. 


Yeah because Plarium never given us false information, or shown us false intent before right? Like how many times the players brought forward ideas to make the game better, or improve where Plarium told us, oh no that is not possible, or we can't do that. Then later some version or the other of same ideas get put into the game with a hefty price tag. "It can be done if you pay for it".


If you take anything Plarium says for facevalue you are a loon. The value of their games is highly questionable due to the "inflateable" numbers they present as "their players".  how many MILLION players we again? Seriously?


Plarium wouldn't told us if they have no intent to keep the game alive after flash by convert it to another format, because, that would be like shoot themselfs in the foot. No one would spend any more on the game knowing a death sentence looming. Gfx work is cheap compared to actual code, so throw more pixels at us to spend on, feels like they flogging the horse to run those extra miles before it collapse.


When you seen any actual DEV posted or given any reason to believe them actually working on a conversion. A comment from a CM about "we are working on it", give no reason to trust they actually do. Plariums credability when it comes to the players is, just not there...


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Trentos
26 September, 2017, 8:06 AM UTC

So are your opinions on the topic of this thread (and in other threads) simply based on nihilistic views on Plarium's end-days? 

Why don't you just keep your opinions to yourself and take your beefs up with Plarium instead of being a constant downer in the forums.

 
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IronApex Turok
26 September, 2017, 8:30 AM UTC

Trentos said:


So are your opinions on the topic of this thread (and in other threads) simply based on nihilistic views on Plarium's end-days? 

Why don't you just keep your opinions to yourself and take your beefs up with Plarium instead of being a constant downer in the forums.

 

not a nihlist... im a business owner.    i think in terms of the profit margin. and i look at stormfall and i see what its going to cost, vs what the company in total brings in annually. that doesnt leave a lot of meat left on the bone for a game that at best estimation only a few years life left in a 10 year life span. 


If you were plarium, how much money would you dump into a 5 year old game, that the latest figures showed youd need to get your ROI out of after 5 years?


to plarium, we are all expendible. why do you think the only content uploads have been stuff to get us spend money. 
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djmoody
26 September, 2017, 2:17 PM UTC

Tychi said:


You could well be right Zwelgje. Let me think , errr.....Considering DJ hasn't posted since I asked the question I would say you are right Zwelgje.


I'm curious to know Dj's answer as I know what league the culprit comes from (didn't need Sherlock for that 1) and as a betting man I know who the odds on favourite is as well lol.  

I promised Red I wouldn't post any more. 

I provided her significant info about the level of account sharing occurring in Emps (which she didn't seem to be aware of) and how a person given account details can continue to log in well beyond the point the password is changed.I thought the latter was reasonably common knowledge, given a mod has posted about it and report to Plarium but the info seems to have passed Emps by.

I did this because from her posts she seems to have a degree of honesty and integrity. While she was posting honestly from what she knew, in fact a lot of what she is saying is untrue. I wanted to her a chance to learn the truth from her fellow league mates before she incriminated herself more on the forums.

I also said I would keep quiet as long as I wasn't been called out and flamed. 

Seeing as I am being called out - this is what I know:

- "The account" has been shared with a large number of Emp captains

- "The account" account has (unbelievably stupidly) been shared with multiple people outside of Emps

- It has been shared so much I doubt we will ever be able to pin down who ran this event

- League strikes have been run on Frenzie's account by people other than Frenzie

- It is possible, once given the account details, to maintain access to an account, even if the password and e-mail on the account are changed. A Mod has posted about this and reported it to Plarium.

- The issue has been represented to Plarium as a hack. The degree of account sharing was not mentioned to Plarium. As a result on Friday half the troops have been compensated back to the account.

Now if Emps want to continue to lie and say that any of the above is not true then I will pull out the damning screenshot evidence that proves it. That evidence will embarrass several people including the person that has already been through a painful enough experience already. So I would rather not. But if the lying and BS continue then I will quite happily do it to prove a point.

It is possible Emps were not aware of the continued access that can be maintained post the original account share. Maybe they initially believed that access post password change was proof of a hack. I have informed an Emps captain (kindly to help them solve the problem of continued access) that this is not correct and that the account sharer can still maintain access (as reported recently by a Mod)

At this point then Emps now also know it's not a hack. But they have continue to post in the forum as if it is. Clearly it's counter to the propaganda demanding full comp and league issue be sorted to:

a) admit to the monumental level of account sharing on the account

b) that they know now how this could have been done by simply account sharing

Now we can live in a fantasy land that this was a complex hack, requiring significant knowledge and experience and the hacker was willing to risk breaking laws to execute what happened. Or they were one of the many people that simple had been given access to the account.

That is what I mean by beyond reasonable doubt. And I think any intelligent, rational person is going to come to the same conclusion.

Not that I am a fan of Plarium but it's a shame for them, because hack has been cried wolf so loudly that people are questioning the integrity of Plarium's systems and security. Reality is no matter how good they are (or not) they can't protect against user stupidity (hence why they have the account sharing rule). It seems a bit unfair that they are on trial now as well because an individual/league can't tell everyone the truth.


Everyone has a right to an opinion. No one has a right to their opinion being respected by other if it can't be backed up with rational and logic explanation
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Lord
26 September, 2017, 2:33 PM UTC
DJ, Very true
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