All talk, no fight

173 Replies
Trentos
22 April, 2017, 4:49 PM UTC

I knew Test would be interested in NAPs. I reckon he would claim to have created the while idea,


Test:

When working with un-trustworthy / dishonorable parties, it's nearly pointless having a NAP


Thanks for taking my side in a debate for once Test, rather than go ballistic with your insults. Congrats for that.


Although some of your history is blurred, and obviously tied to you obsession with this Emperor Shin character.


Test:

The next day, Shin broke the NAP a second time and that was the end of Destiny participating in a terrible NAP


I clearly remember you in the KoK TS begging to remain in the NAP after Emperors left. After your demands were met and Shin stood down. Weeks after this you were present and whining presenting suspect maps regarding league boundaries. Trying to play god. You didn't even tell your allies they were being thrown under the bus,

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Trentos
22 April, 2017, 4:58 PM UTC

And as for my league we were always honourable to the NAP that was in place. All I remember (after you begged to rejoin the NAP) was attacks on Unforgiven Knights assets and a later notice that you wanted to withdraw from the said NAP. Dishonourable by every means.

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test
22 April, 2017, 6:58 PM UTC

Trentos said:


And as for my league we were always honourable to the NAP that was in place. All I remember (after you begged to rejoin the NAP) was attacks on Unforgiven Knights assets and a later notice that you wanted to withdraw from the said NAP. Dishonourable by every means.

wow - 2 lies in 2 differet posts back to back, I'd say impressive, but it's right on par for what comes out of your mouth in general.


Considering both of your previous posts posts were terrible - one filled with logical fallices and the other with a terrible interpretation of what the definition of what a NAP is, I'd say you're par for the course.


At no point did I ever come into TS begging to re-join the NAP.  


Also in regards to league boundaries or playing god, that would be Shin.


His posts are still on the forum about his Super alliance he wanted to make with the top league where he got to decide how much defense he would require for someone to have in order to be allowed to have a beacon, along with a map drawn for where certain leagues were allowed to be at.


And then you go onto contradict yourself saying that I attacked UK at the same that I was asking to rejoin then I left again (what happened to re-joining, lol)?


I'll point out some FACTS below.


At no point did I beg to get in or ask for permission to leave.  I gave noticed to every marshal by in-game mail that I was out of the NaP, and 2 months later you guys got whacked by us.


Let's look at some timelines:


NaP "signed" in TS by all marshals involved and put on a google doc on July 9.


http://prntscr.com/ezldqw - July 10


 http://prntscr.com/ezldfl - July 10


We signed a NAP, Shin from Emps repeatedly broke the NAP, and I talked about how and why we left the NAP.


2 months later we went and whacked the other Unforgivens since Emps were too cowardly to hold any beacons.


http://prntscr.com/ezlcoj - Sept 10


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Far from dishonerable.


As always, we let our troops do the talking, unlike trentos who brags on the forums about never loosing anything and just repeatedly cries while making up plenty of lies time and time again.

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Trentos
23 April, 2017, 7:28 AM UTC

As usual you put your own spin on the facts Test. I call this dishonourable, even pure lying.

Destiny had indeed left the NAP after Emperors, however in a subsequent NAP meeting (which you omitted in your post) I was a Knights delegate and you asked to be let back into said NAP. There was a show of hands, Destiny was back in the NAP, and a document produced to prove this. Many others were present and know this to be fact!!!

As for my explanation of what a NAP is, I think you have produced a shining example of my description.

As for the putting troops on the line, mine were there. Although you used half a dozen of your mighty coralition partners to do the heavy lifting. Fact!!! I kept names and numbers (screenshots) of it all. You'd still be using profiteers to this day, if the likes of Dragoni and KoK Delete etc didn't get sick of your Grand Marshall BS.

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test
23 April, 2017, 2:20 PM UTC

Trentos said:


As usual you put your own spin on the facts Test. I call this dishonourable, even pure lying.

Destiny had indeed left the NAP after Emperors, however in a subsequent NAP meeting (which you omitted in your post) I was a Knights delegate and you asked to be let back into said NAP. There was a show of hands, Destiny was back in the NAP, and a document produced to prove this. Many others were present and know this to be fact!!!

As for my explanation of what a NAP is, I think you have produced a shining example of my description.

As for the putting troops on the line, mine were there. Although you used half a dozen of your mighty coralition partners to do the heavy lifting. Fact!!! I kept names and numbers (screenshots) of it all. You'd still be using profiteers to this day, if the likes of Dragoni and KoK Delete etc didn't get sick of your Grand Marshall BS.

Funny how you now go off on another tangent and start on yet another LIE where you ramble on and make up a story about me being some sort of grandmarshal.  I wonder if everyone else in the coralition would agree with that statement?  


Profiteers?  As I recall, KoC got all the spoils of war from whacking Unforgivens (they are in the corner that Unf used to be in). Destiny didn't gain anything except helping out a fellow Coralition NAP member (KoC), expending some of our troops in the massive number of beacon take-downs, and bragging rights to go with it all.  Not to mention all the fun that was had :D


In regards to the NaP - I did re-join it. Emps / Unforgivens were still tools.  And I (along with everyone else in the coralition) left.  Then based on what you said it sounds as if everyone went and whacked you guys.  All marshals were made aware when I left the second time (same as the first) via personal in-game mail.


So it's not just your inability to work with me, but also everyone else in the coralition (even after being given a second chance and re-joining after your side's repeated violations).


Well said Trentos.  Thanks for clarifying that key point about how worthless the Unf / Emps are to work and make agreements with.  


While the Coralitoin NAP thrived, the Unforgiven NAP was proven worthless on back to back accounts, great distinction Trentos.

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Trentos
23 April, 2017, 2:57 PM UTC

"In regards to the NaP - I did re-join it"

So you didn't rejoin, but now you admit you did? Hard to trust a word that comes out of your mouth. Your use of "I" and "Me" in your ramblings just shows what kind of a sociopath you really are.

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test
23 April, 2017, 5:43 PM UTC

Trentos said:


"In regards to the NaP - I did re-join it"

So you didn't rejoin, but now you admit you did? Hard to trust a word that comes out of your mouth. Your use of "I" and "Me" in your ramblings just shows what kind of a sociopath you really are.

Again with the selective text propaganda, leaving out the rest of the context so you can make up even more nonsense.


Just like in the chronicles.  Pathetic.


-----


You've got nothing left except name calling...impressive!


It's what the people on the forums have come to expect from ya.


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Jezebel
23 April, 2017, 7:01 PM UTC

lol this thread was started 8 months ago so its old news - the game is dying though so I suppose there is nothing new to flame about


as is the dissolution of the NAP and the Coralition


I don't see any point in carrying on with this thread ... just sayin


as for Destiny profiting from hitting Unforgivens they did not keep ANY Unforgiven beacons they took down - they all went to other leagues


Destiny as stated had some fun - that's what it was all about

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djmoody
24 April, 2017, 12:20 AM UTC

I am not a big fan of the last few posts.

Test posted a pretty uncontroversial set of thoughts exploring NAP's in general and not really relating to any particular league position. Somehow within a couple of posts that has been spun into a the usual flame war of league politics. 

It doesn't look like the two of you will ever have a particularly sensible discussion.

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I don't want what I am about to post to turn into a huge politics propaganda debate, I write it simply because it might be interesting to some people (after all the relationships between leagues and the fights that ensue from those relationships are the tapestry of the game game, which we players write - for me its the most interesting part). Nor is it new news, I have written about this before and it was clearly explained to Unforgiven's at the time but thought distrust I don't think the message was heard.....

The attack on Unforgiven's in the NW corner was not really about Unforgiven at all. It was more to do with:

- Internal Coralition politics

- The emergence of Fellowship and the added risk to the NW corner that entailed

The Coralition members had for quite a few months left KoC and GoA to fight for the NW corner on their own. We had involved ourselves in KoC/GoA fights a couple of times with Bilksnir and weren't wholly impressed with KoC/GoA's performance. This led to an unwritten/unspoken understanding that they would need to prove themselves fighting their own battles.

Now I think that was "the right" thing to do on many levels, using the coralition power to interfere with with what could otherwise would be 1 on 1 fights being one of them.

What we didn't do right by them is actively spelling this out. Like I said, it was an unspoken conclusion we all just reached. We owed it to them to spell that out and make it spoken. I think we let KoC/GoA down by not doing that.

After about 6/9 months of that, it started to dawn on some of us that while the conclusion we reached might have been the right one the way we went about it was wrong. So people's attitudes to supporting KoC/GoA began to soften. Also at that time they came under attack from multiple leagues who were clearly co-coordinating activities. So we started to discuss helping them firmly re-establish themselves in the NW.

The catalyst to action was Fellowship taking one of the beacons in the NW. It tipped the balance among coralition members to helping KoC/GOA get that area sorted. We felt by then that they were under attack from so many people that if we didn't help they would go under. In short we either started to help or we watched our a great ally die. Some were happy to let that happen, some members weren't, in the end the majority wanted to help. 

So the Coralition hit Unforgiven and started a slow process of handing the taken beacons back over to them when they had the defence ready to take them. This made a clear statement to the server. For instance Fellowship heard the statement and backed off moving to the NW corner. Today you can see KoC thriving again in that area.

Why Unforgiven - because we had tried for 9 months to ally Unforgivens and Emps and had it thrown back in our faces. This distrust this caused, by many failed negoations led many Coralition members to believe you had ill feeling towards us and were enemies, plotting against us.

Now that left Unforgiven with some beacons in the NW and West adjacent to the KoC/GoA area. There was no intention to take them. Coralition had done what it wanted and had agreed to do, shown a commitment and support for KoC/GoA that would enable them to control their area. But Unforgivens would probably feel we were at war with them and intended to take their remaining beacons.

So to show Unforgiven they had nothing to further to fear and there would be no more attacks, we met them to explain the background to the fighting and to offer then the security/promise of a NAP (a non-aggression pack, whereby we would promise not to hit their beacons). I know this implicitly because it was actually my idea. It also gave the opportunity to simmer down ill feeling from those members of Coralition that didn't trust Unforgivens and believed them to be plotting against us.

Unfortunately from the outset, Unforgivens and Emps approached the NAP discussion with total distrust. Despite explaining the wider politics and winds that had driven events, they weren't believed. Unforgivens and Emps saw the offer of a NAP as a sinister plan with hidden intentions. It had simply been on the table as a way of giving them confidence they were under no further threat of attacks. As talks faltered Test made demands that Shin needed to step down as a condition of the NAP (due to Test's distrust of Shin, a distrust shared my many due to the previous failed diplo). This didn't help the process one bit and solidified in your minds I think that the NAP was some kind of trick. That helped lead to the Destiny in, Destiny out shambles which certainly killed any chance of building trust.

And the rest is history. Some people on your side felt so aggrieved by events they spent a probable 6 figure sum buying up a 1.5bn hammer to "right the wrongs" that had been done to them.

Like most of the Coralition, Emps/Unforgiven story, distrust and misunderstanding leading from the distrust led to a worse position that the one we started with.

As I said at the start, I only posted this because people might find it interesting. The reality of situations is rarely as black and white as it seems and how differently things can turn out when they are on a knife edge depending on the personalities involved and their ability to understand each other and build some trust. If the talks had been just Venom and myself then I expect things would have gone better but there were lots of other personalities involved.

I hope the above doesn't start any flamewars - it's means as a fun insight into the back story, it's not propaganda. I don't think any of the above has any bearing on today's game. It's 100% my perception of the truth and comes from a time where I has heavily involved in the game and had a pretty good understanding of all parties views, so it's probably the most complete understanding your likely to find.

Also this little backstory/history might show you that Test wasn't behind everything in Coralition. He was one voice, a respected an influential voice. But there were many others, including my own. In this particular case the NAP was my idea and it was meant to diffuse tensions but it didn't work.





Everyone has a right to an opinion. No one has a right to their opinion being respected by other if it can't be backed up with rational and logic explanation
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Trentos
24 April, 2017, 1:54 AM UTC

Thanks DJ for you explanation. 100% correct to my knowledge. The Unforgiven Knights kept committed to this NAP until the dying days. That is until our assets were attacked by a NAP member, and said NAP was torn up.

I refer back to my original opinions on NAPs, given this is was the topic of debate:


"Informal agreements to create standoffs between leagues until one side dishonours the NAP. Put in place to protect league assets from those you don't want to have formal alliance with (generally an enemy of sorts). Very often broken by one of the participants, sometimes in a dishonourable manner"


This is just my take on then, but they are part of the greater meta-game whether players like them or not. That was all I was trying to say before Test started trolling me as usual.

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test
24 April, 2017, 4:32 AM UTC

Trentos said:


Thanks DJ for you explanation. 100% correct to my knowledge. The Unforgiven Knights kept committed to this NAP until the dying days. That is until our assets were attacked by a NAP member, and said NAP was torn up.

I refer back to my original opinions on NAPs, given this is was the topic of debate:


"Informal agreements to create standoffs between leagues until one side dishonours the NAP. Put in place to protect league assets from those you don't want to have formal alliance with (generally an enemy of sorts). Very often broken by one of the participants, sometimes in a dishonourable manner"


This is just my take on then, but they are part of the greater meta-game whether players like them or not. That was all I was trying to say before Test started trolling me as usual.

Trentos is still having troubles with the timeline it appears.


DJ did such a good job of outlining everything and yet Trentos is making up more lies...yet again.  *sigh*


The NAP was "torn up" well before any hits happened.  All marshals were mailed in-game of the dissolution.  Attacks happened afterwards.  No one was attacked by a NAP member because there was no NAP when your beacons were wiped out.


----


I've already highlighted that NAP's have major success or failure based in part upon who the NAP is held with.  

- The one with the coralition is a shining example of how well things can work.  

- The one with Unforgivens is a shining example of how horrible and worthless they can be.


You're free to have your opinion, but I will again argue that your opinion is incorrect:


The definition of a NAP is not an "informal agreement to create standoffs" but rather a Non Agression Pact (NAP)

- it tends to succeed or fail based on who the agreement is made with and how well it's outlined, managed, and/or upheld by said parties.


----


Usual trolling complete :D


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Trentos
24 April, 2017, 5:42 AM UTC

Test:

"The NAP was "torn up" well before any hits happened. All marshals were mailed in-game of the dissolution"

A blatant lie. Knights fortress was hit several times, and we waited hours to get notification that Destiny were withdrawing from the NAP. Retribution was fast and strong. Destiny.Fullstop, Kok Delete all went down. Coralition members kicking players to save defense etc. Was a disgrace. Just don't get me started on all the other Coralition members crying for mercy, and KoK leadership jumping ship to strengthen Destiny's remaining beacons 55555

But feel free to put you own spin on events Test. Like I always say, everybody deserves the right to express their opinions in the forums.

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test
24 April, 2017, 1:45 PM UTC

Trentos said:


Test:

"The NAP was "torn up" well before any hits happened. All marshals were mailed in-game of the dissolution"

A blatant lie. Knights fortress was hit several times, and we waited hours to get notification that Destiny were withdrawing from the NAP. Retribution was fast and strong. Destiny.Fullstop, Kok Delete all went down. Coralition members kicking players to save defense etc. Was a disgrace. Just don't get me started on all the other Coralition members crying for mercy, and KoK leadership jumping ship to strengthen Destiny's remaining beacons 55555

But feel free to put you own spin on events Test. Like I always say, everybody deserves the right to express their opinions in the forums.

At a time when (I assume) everyone was hoping this discussion was over, Trentos continues with his crying and lying and brings up new subjects.


When will he stop?  He sounds cranky, maybe he needs to be put down for his NAP  #mommy411

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Jezebel
24 April, 2017, 6:59 PM UTC

Trentos said:


And as for my league we were always honourable to the NAP that was in place. All I remember (after you begged to rejoin the NAP) was attacks on Unforgiven Knights assets and a later notice that you wanted to withdraw from the said NAP. Dishonourable by every means.

Destiny leadership discussed the NAP in our facebook chat at length and we NEVER wanted to be part of a NAP with Unforgivens or Emps BUT its what the Coralition wanted - we being part of the Coralition agreed to it


While we were in discussions with Unforgivens and Emps regarding this NAP our beacons were hit by some Unforgiven leagues "for points" or test hits whatever doesn't matter - Unforgiven members were not made aware of the discussion and our beacons were hit during the process this was just ONE of the reasons Destiny withdrew


again - this is no longer relevant as the NAP and the Coralition have been null and void for quite some time now


just out of curiosity how come Blue Magik is all of a sudden no longer allied with Emps and being hit?  They were pretty instrumental in the fight Unforgivens and Emps had with Destiny - they spent a lot of time ponging Destiny beacons and losing some of their own in retaliation for their part - now suddenly they are next on the hit list
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