All talk, no fight

173 Replies
test
20 April, 2017, 6:13 PM UTC

Trentos said:


Strange thread for a crude player to bring up and require moderation? Especially given how old this thread was. Someone has an alt with some agenda? Just saying. Or was it just a bump so others could have their say (e.g. Tamerin)

Reckon our old mod Exxxe would of sorted this one out in short time had he not been run out off town.

Not so sure it's an either-or situation between an alt or a purposeful bump.  Many players don't start the game at the same time and join in on the conversation much later than others.  I could very well of been one of those two things, or it could of been a number of other things that your either-or false deilema doesn't include.


---


Was Exxxe run outta town?  The words Oberon directly said to me is that he fired Exxxe and then asked for me to stop making fun of him for getting fired.   Exxxe broke the rules that he agreed to when he became a moderator and the result of that action was being fired by Oberon.


When the CEO fires you for breach of contract / abuse of powers, it's somewhat different than when someone gets "run out of town".


Keep up the pitty-party though, it suits both you and him well.


Cheers :D


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Tamerin
20 April, 2017, 9:32 PM UTC

It wasn't a bump so I could have my say Trrentos.. First off I just didn't like Sarah's Comment.  I Didn't know it was an old thread I was just reading is all.  and happened to respond.  

Having a small league myself I often utilize NAP's as a way of enacting diplomacy when the larger league doesn't feel that it would be beneficial on either side to utilize in game diplomacy.  

My league can hold it's own, but as can be attested by many who know me, I also play this game with a strong modicum of integrity, honor, and value friendships that I have made in the course of this game.  

Plus I do not hide behind online facades as some do in this game, I am who I am in RL in this game, and in this forum.  

So citing me as an example well Trentos it is only my hope that I am setting a good and honest example in regards to how I converse and interact with my fellow players.

TAMERIN

Tamerin33
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test
21 April, 2017, 12:28 AM UTC

Tamerin said:


It wasn't a bump so I could have my say Trrentos.. First off I just didn't like Sarah's Comment.  I Didn't know it was an old thread I was just reading is all.  and happened to respond.  

Having a small league myself I often utilize NAP's as a way of enacting diplomacy when the larger league doesn't feel that it would be beneficial on either side to utilize in game diplomacy.  

My league can hold it's own, but as can be attested by many who know me, I also play this game with a strong modicum of integrity, honor, and value friendships that I have made in the course of this game.  

Plus I do not hide behind online facades as some do in this game, I am who I am in RL in this game, and in this forum.  

So citing me as an example well Trentos it is only my hope that I am setting a good and honest example in regards to how I converse and interact with my fellow players.

TAMERIN

Good luck to ya Tamerin.


Enjoy your time in Stormfall: Age of War!

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Sarah Walker
21 April, 2017, 10:28 AM UTC
The difference between the so called player NAP and the at peace status is that when you break the peace there is a cooling off period to get your affairs in order , with a player made NAP it can be broken instantly , with trust being so hard to find in this game who would want a NAP , surely at peace would be a far better option , A NAP seems to be the biggest trouble causer in the game 
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Jezebel
21 April, 2017, 10:47 AM UTC

Sarah Walker said:


The difference between the so called player NAP and the at peace status is that when you break the peace there is a cooling off period to get your affairs in order , with a player made NAP it can be broken instantly , with trust being so hard to find in this game who would want a NAP , surely at peace would be a far better option , A NAP seems to be the biggest trouble causer in the game 

honestly there is far too much diplo in this game already, a NAP could be made with trusted allies but if you work with another league you would want to be at peace anyway so you don't run into each other's offense on beacons by accident

too much diplo impedes on members game play - just because you hold a beacon doesn't mean you have to be friends with everyone cause there is always someone out there who will eventually hit you anyway

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borny
21 April, 2017, 11:32 AM UTC
If they are trusted allies whats the need for a NAP ?
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Sarah Walker
21 April, 2017, 11:40 AM UTC
Exactly , NAPS are for the ones you dont trust and thats the reason they are no good , if you trusted them then a NAP wouldnt be needed 
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Oracle
21 April, 2017, 12:01 PM UTC

I made it my gaming goal, together with many players to destroy the NAP. And I can say today that Mission is 89% accomplished. The NAP is no more. 

our next goal is to destroy/\make it such that beacon boundaries are gone. And they are gone in the west and East. only the south and North remain. Gone are the times when KoK owns 52 beacons, while leagues like ADR own none. gone are the times when KT sit comfortably with 70 beacons( did you know that some members are given beacons in KT to use for DE . Now those bullies who made me quit for 6 moths are fighting each other. How sweet revenge can be.


I am 100% in support of Sarah Walker. NAP's have to go, together with terrotorries. 

Biohazard has killed the forum.
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Jezebel
21 April, 2017, 12:14 PM UTC
borny said:

If they are trusted allies whats the need for a NAP ?
if they don't work with you in regards to taking out other league's assets then a NAP is just as good no need for embassy diplo (re: at peace) you just agree to not hit each other's beacons or forts - most big leagues only care about those things so by doing a NAP then you are not eliminating castle wars
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Jezebel
21 April, 2017, 12:16 PM UTC
Oracle said:

I made it my gaming goal, together with many players to destroy the NAP. And I can say today that Mission is 89% accomplished. The NAP is no more. 

our next goal is to destroy/\make it such that beacon boundaries are gone. And they are gone in the west and East. only the south and North remain. Gone are the times when KoK owns 52 beacons, while leagues like ADR own none. gone are the times when KT sit comfortably with 70 beacons( did you know that some members are given beacons in KT to use for DE . Now those bullies who made me quit for 6 moths are fighting each other. How sweet revenge can be.


I am 100% in support of Sarah Walker. NAP's have to go, together with terrotorries. 

you and what army??? I am pretty sure that you had absolutely nothing to do with the dissolution of the big NAP that was formed during the beacon wars between KT and Coralition
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Oracle
21 April, 2017, 12:23 PM UTC
Jezebel said:

Oracle said:

I made it my gaming goal, together with many players to destroy the NAP. And I can say today that Mission is 89% accomplished. The NAP is no more. 

our next goal is to destroy/\make it such that beacon boundaries are gone. And they are gone in the west and East. only the south and North remain. Gone are the times when KoK owns 52 beacons, while leagues like ADR own none. gone are the times when KT sit comfortably with 70 beacons( did you know that some members are given beacons in KT to use for DE . Now those bullies who made me quit for 6 moths are fighting each other. How sweet revenge can be.


I am 100% in support of Sarah Walker. NAP's have to go, together with terrotorries. 

you and what army??? I am pretty sure that you had absolutely nothing to do with the dissolution of the big NAP that was formed during the beacon wars between KT and Coralition
You are right I don't, sorry about that. How can I take credit for such an evil act of greater good. My mistake. 
Biohazard has killed the forum.
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John Sss
21 April, 2017, 12:32 PM UTC

um..  i think you guys are forgetting who and how the NAP was made with kt and the Coralition.

it was never going to work because the players in the league never wanted it in the first place. it was made and posted without the consent of the majority of captains.....  oh and then he quit the game.


it was a bogus NAP and we all got stuck with it.


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Jezebel
21 April, 2017, 12:33 PM UTC
Oracle said:

Jezebel said:

Oracle said:

I made it my gaming goal, together with many players to destroy the NAP. And I can say today that Mission is 89% accomplished. The NAP is no more. 

our next goal is to destroy/\make it such that beacon boundaries are gone. And they are gone in the west and East. only the south and North remain. Gone are the times when KoK owns 52 beacons, while leagues like ADR own none. gone are the times when KT sit comfortably with 70 beacons( did you know that some members are given beacons in KT to use for DE . Now those bullies who made me quit for 6 moths are fighting each other. How sweet revenge can be.


I am 100% in support of Sarah Walker. NAP's have to go, together with terrotorries. 

you and what army??? I am pretty sure that you had absolutely nothing to do with the dissolution of the big NAP that was formed during the beacon wars between KT and Coralition
You are right I don't, sorry about that. How can I take credit for such an evil act of greater good. My mistake. 
just an FYI the NAP was actually ended by the leagues who made it - there was no longer a need for it - leagues that had nothing to do with the KT/Coralition war wanted in the NAP so they could be safe from the big leagues that were in it - it was becoming a monster to deal with and most of the leagues wanting in had no history with the war
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Jezebel
21 April, 2017, 12:37 PM UTC

John Sss said:


um..  i think you guys are forgetting who and how the NAP was made with kt and the Coralition.

it was never going to work because the players in the league never wanted it in the first place. it was made and posted without the consent of the majority of captains.....  oh and then he quit the game.


it was a bogus NAP and we all got stuck with it.


i wasn't involved with the leagues that were in the NAP at the time but was when it ended - I got a history lesson when I joined Destiny


and you are probably right most probably didn't even want it - it lasted for quite a while
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Oracle
21 April, 2017, 12:39 PM UTC
Jezebel said:
just an FYI the NAP was actually ended by the leagues who made it - there was no longer a need for it - leagues that had nothing to do with the KT/Coralition war wanted in the NAP so they could be safe from the big leagues that were in it - it was becoming a monster to deal with and most of the leagues wanting in had no history with the war
The point is that it's almost gone. Yes the was a question of what to do with ''faction'' leagues caused by the NAP. but atleast the NAP is gone, and Sarah & I are happy. Case closed, lets move on to the next topic. 
Biohazard has killed the forum.
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djmoody
21 April, 2017, 11:07 PM UTC

Oracle said:


I am 100% in support of Sarah Walker. NAP's have to go, together with terrotorries. 

Just to get this right. 

You and SW still hold the belief that diplo is incompatible with strategy games and should play no part in them?

When you say no one should have territories, presumably you mean all beacons should be in Balur's hands? Can you explain more?

Everyone has a right to an opinion. No one has a right to their opinion being respected by other if it can't be backed up with rational and logic explanation
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Sarah Walker
21 April, 2017, 11:14 PM UTC
No , not to you :)
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djmoody
21 April, 2017, 11:32 PM UTC

Sarah Walker said:


No , not to you :)

I am not the only person reading the forums. Just pretend you are explaining your ideas and beliefs a large number of other people, if that helps :)

Everyone has a right to an opinion. No one has a right to their opinion being respected by other if it can't be backed up with rational and logic explanation
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Trentos
22 April, 2017, 4:01 AM UTC

Surprised by the response to such an old thread. Same old characters showing up, which isn't a surprise. Diplomacy is a large factor in the game and always will be. Fact!!!. But let me add my thoughts on NAPS:

1. Formal Alliances and Peace status

Formal agreements between leagues that have implications as to who can hit what etc. Known by the entire server via a leagues embassy, and changes of these agreements are seen by all, and can indicate a change in relations.


2. NAP's

Informal agreements to create standoffs between leagues until one side dishonours the NAP. Put in place to protect league assets from those you don't want to have formal alliance with (generally an enemy of sorts). Very often broken by one of the participants in a dishonourable manner (i.e. "I hit your beacons, but by the way, I am pulling out of the NAP now")


Personally, I think both play a part in the larger meta-game, but leagues should be very wary of NAPs, as not all will honour NAP rules. In fact, the dishonourable use them to bide time and plan their assaults. They will not give warning by first withdrawing from a NAP as you could a formal Alliance/Peace status. They will attack first and leave the NAP shredded to pieces.

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test
22 April, 2017, 3:28 PM UTC

Trentos said:


Surprised by the response to such an old thread. Same old characters showing up, which isn't a surprise. Diplomacy is a large factor in the game and always will be. Fact!!!. But let me add my thoughts on NAPS:

1. Formal Alliances and Peace status

Formal agreements between leagues that have implications as to who can hit what etc. Known by the entire server via a leagues embassy, and changes of these agreements are seen by all, and can indicate a change in relations.


2. NAP's

Informal agreements to create standoffs between leagues until one side dishonours the NAP. Put in place to protect league assets from those you don't want to have formal alliance with (generally an enemy of sorts). Very often broken by one of the participants in a dishonourable manner (i.e. "I hit your beacons, but by the way, I am pulling out of the NAP now")


Personally, I think both play a part in the larger meta-game, but leagues should be very wary of NAPs, as not all will honour NAP rules. In fact, the dishonourable use them to bide time and plan their assaults. They will not give warning by first withdrawing from a NAP as you could a formal Alliance/Peace status. They will attack first and leave the NAP shredded to pieces.

Plenty of generalities (which simply aren't true) in there, similar to his last post which was based on a false either-or dilemma.  This time he has an incorrect definition of a NAP which is pretty sad.


What a horrendous definition of a NAP Trentos has laid out. My understanding is that NAP stands for: No Attack Policy.   As opposed to an "informal agreement to create standoff between leagues until one side dishonors the NAP".

----


The coralition NAP didn't do what trentos claims a NAP is.  Instead, it actually created one of the strongest alliances the server had ever seen that lasted for more than a year.


After the goal of the NAP was accomplished and we no longer felt KT was a threat to us (Roane quit), we dissolved it since the goal was to team up to protect each other and fight against the biggest coiner that game had ever seen up to that point (Roane).  


If memory serves me right, DJ made a post on the forums when it dissolved, along with one when it was formed outlining the purpose.


NAP's have an excellent place in a game of strategy that hinges on working with other trustworthy people.


-----


In the past, using in-game mechanics (embassy status's) have hurt Destiny along with a number of other leagues on the map.  


I'll share one of our experiences that excludes a NAP:


Destiny used to be apart of some sort of super alliance toward the beginning of the server with the other top leagues that used embassy status to outline our relationships.  Then we left.  


KoC used their "embassy peace status" to hold our beacons after KoK had hit them.  If we had only had a NAP with KoC (no embassy peace status), this couldn't of happened and we would of been allowed to fight for our beacons instead of being stuck waiting 3 days to do anything and allowing our enemies to stack our beacon for 3 days before fighting back.  Those of you who play the beacon game, know that time is of the essence when capturing beacons back and forth.  


So while embassy status (especially peace status) does serve it's place, especially for leagues that do completely trust one another, I feel NAP's work great in place of embassy status with leagues you don't have complete trust with, but are willing to put it out there that you made a contractual agreement (NAP) to not hit one another.  If they don't have honor and break their word, then it's game on!  


NAP's serve their place and they have been very beneficial for some, and completely worthless for others (especially when dealing with dishonorable leagues).


----


A third personal experience showcases a bad use of a NAP:


The Coralition and Unforgivens spent approx 2 months in TS (many hours) designing and agreeing to a NAP.


The day it was formed (a couple hours afterwards)  Shin broke the NAP.  Every marshal in the NAP was made aware of the breach and the issue was attempted to be sorted.


The next day, Shin broke the NAP a second time and that was the end of Destiny participating in a terrible NAP.  


Many hours of discussions, months of meetings and agreements gone in a matter of two days after it was formed due to the Unforgiven's side being unwilling to uphold their agreements / holding their players accountable for their actions, along with my un-willingness to put up with an work with dishonorable people.  I gave them a chance, they broke their word twice immediatly, and I cut my losses and walked away at that point.


----


Morale of the uber-long post:


- Embassy status can serve a purpose and has worked well for some, and horribly for others.


- When working with un-trustworthy / dishonorable parties, it's nearly pointless having a NAP.


- In the earlier example of the Coralition NAP, it was one of the best things that ever happened when working with trusted / honorable parties.



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