TIPS for the new BG System

26 Replies
Juglar del Viento
Moderator
28 July, 2015, 1:00 PM UTC

Lords & Ladies of Stormfall!

here i post some tips and advices from a good bg player Famu Naushad :

"1. Dont expect to gain something from BG's. Always expectations are leading to frustration.

2. Understand and adapt to new method of BG's. The banking of previous reward + tax no longer applicable. Instead do like this. Keep in mind that you are in a debt. Your debt equal last big payout + all small rewards. So you need to pay back all your previous rewards + tax (1-12.5% of the previous rewards) to receive a fresh reward. (Keep in mind that all small payouts are added to your big payout and tax is calculated. So if you take more small rewards, you will have the tax getting increased as well. That will lead you put everything inside and get no reward and will get you screwed.)

3. Always try to track of the rewards you receive until you get paid out. That will give you a better chance to know if you are due on a payout.

4. Dont keep killing BG's if you dont get a reward on an expected level. That will only let you get screwed unless you are a CC player. Instead keep building scraps and wait till server reset time. A fresh day have better chances of getting you paid. Make sure you have enough units to pay the taxes. I recommend you not to dump your bigger units for this. Keep building scrap units. Payback your reawrd plus the newly build scraps to take the new payout.

5. Dont ever expect you get a payout today and dump all you have. Keep building the so called scraps. You will get your rewards even after 2 days. This is not a game that end in a day.

With best regards" by Famu Naushad 



Resistance Is Futile
UTC +1:00
djmoody
30 July, 2015, 6:39 PM UTC

Lets hope you are not right or Battleground gameplay has effectively been removed from the game, which is retarted game development.


For example, I am at lvl 96 BG's. Lets say I wanted to move up to lvl 97 for fun or clear some banked resource from low level troops. Given the last payout and yellow bar I would have to load 200m resource into the BG's to go around another cycle of loading and then being paid back out the resource.

If I got charged a 10% tax I would lose 20m resource. 20m resource for the privilege of taking part in gameplay. Even if you raid like a top 20 and make the uber loading troops you are max able to pump approx 800k into BGs a day. So it would take approx 1 month of raiding just to keep your current army size contstant and take part in BGs.

If I wanted to load lower level troops and get out high level troops - I would have to load for a month to make up for the "tax" then load for another month or two take make the whole enterprise worthwhile. In 3 months time I could do 1/2 days of BG's to release my loaded troops but the game would "tax" me 1/3rd of all the effort I had put in - 1 month's work.

So the moral of the story is that you should not take part in the game. Keep your battleground at a low level and you could load your 1 months resource into BGs and cycle say lvl 50 BG's to get that 20m out at a fraction of the cost a player who has played the game hard and is at lvl 100 can. Pure genius. A developer who incentivises the player NOT to play the game.

Like I say - hope you are wrong but horribly afraid as a mod you have an inside track and are dead right.

 

Everyone has a right to an opinion. No one has a right to their opinion being respected by other if it can't be backed up with rational and logic explanation
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Juglar del Viento
Moderator
31 July, 2015, 10:31 AM UTC

Lord Djmoody

im not at so high level as you but im going to explain you with an example of my bgs....

im at level 64 so i want my payout on level 62 and it requires 28M to bank.

old system:

i had a previus payout on another level 62 and it was 27568140 of resources so now i have to spent that amount plus a 10-12.5% to be allowed to receive a new payout, so in total i have to spend 30324954 (27568140 from last payout + 2756814 (10%))

i bank that amount and i receive my payout arround 27M

new system:

same scenario: i had my payout on another 62 and i want a new payout on a new 62 which requires 28M to bank. ok i bank that 28M and now i have to increase it arround 10% more to i spent 2.8M more... now i have spent 30.8M and hit that 62 i receive my big payout arround 27M


so, in my point of view its more or less the same but its true now you take a little bit more time to reach the amount to bank as the moment when you clear your yellowed bgs you receive troops that you have to discount from your bank.

regards

Resistance Is Futile
UTC +1:00
Falcon
1 August, 2015, 2:53 AM UTC
Juglar del Viento said:


im at level 64 so i want my payout on level 62 and it requires 28M to bank.


Just exactly where do we (other ordinary players) get those values from? 
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BiohazarD
Moderator
1 August, 2015, 6:17 AM UTC

Falcon said:

Juglar del Viento said:

im at level 64 so i want my payout on level 62 and it requires 28M to bank.


Just exactly where do we (other ordinary players) get those values from? 

Testing.  Somebody had a league (or a bunch of alts) record all their payouts for each bg level then averaged them out. 


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djmoody
2 August, 2015, 12:03 AM UTC

Most people use the somewhat accurate (but in other places somewhat flawed) data from this webpage.


http://wiki.plarium.com/index.php?title=Infestation_Data


Enough data to get your started, not accurate enough to make you a pro.

Everyone has a right to an opinion. No one has a right to their opinion being respected by other if it can't be backed up with rational and logic explanation
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Falcon
2 August, 2015, 2:44 AM UTC
Thank you!
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unelfe
29 December, 2015, 4:07 PM UTC

Silly question but... what if you keep hitting small stuff with low casualties ? You'll get evergrowing army and be able to hit stronger and stronger stuff with low casualties getting "only" 10% of big payout as tradeoff.


But since it is added to your "bank debt" you can no longer sacrifice enough troops to reach your bank value and therefore you will never ever get a big payout ? 












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Mehnslayer
29 December, 2015, 11:30 PM UTC
it all depends but chances are if you are hitting low level stuff with small casualties, you will get small payouts that will be roughly equal to what you lost. Additionally if you are referring to the zero loss trick with BGs, you will continue to get small amounts of rewards however you will go further negative, but you can still hit your big payout.
E 'n la sua volontade è nostra pace
UTC +10:00
unelfe
30 December, 2015, 1:38 AM UTC

I am not sure that you did undestand my question. Let me try to rephrase. If i keep hitting small base (weither i overhit them or not) the small payout will stockpile into my debt. 

Does it mean at some point in game i will never be able to get BIG PAYOUT?


bonus question: how does PARTIAL payouts work? what is never bank debt? 


As i understand there are 2 important values : bank debt and banked troops. I'm trying to figure the math on small/partial/big payout but it doesnt sound very logical to me... lol..
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Juglar del Viento
Moderator
30 December, 2015, 10:23 AM UTC

Lord Unelfe

the small payouts consist on the 10% of the real payout of each bg

so, if you hit them loosing more than the small received you are going to bank but small amounts each time so you will be able to get a big payout in a long term.

but if you hit them loosing less than the small received you are going to go into negative bank so every time you will be more in debt with your bank

so yes, you can be in negative and receive your small payouts but it is going to take a long long time (even almost never) getting a big payout

hope this can resolve ur doubts

Regards and happy new year
Resistance Is Futile
UTC +1:00
unelfe
30 December, 2015, 8:02 PM UTC

@JUGLAR DEL VIENTO

sorry for more questions... i'm more confortable with mathematical/algorithms , did i understand this right


You have written (either here or others topics) 2 things : 

  1. 1) On big PAYOUT , debt is erased and  Bank DEBT  = (last big PAYOUT + small PAYOUT ) x (1+tax)
    Does it mean that if i had 10m DEBT  and get a 8m big PAYOUT , my next DEBT is 8m+tax or does the 2m unpaid DEBT carry over?
  2. 2) the PAYOUT is deducted from total SACRIFICE unit
    Does it mean that if i had 10m troops SACRIFICE and get paid 8m PAYOUT i'll have still 2m SACRIFICE ?   


In this case, if i had 10m DEBT, 10m SACRIFICE and get only 8m big PAYOUT i would be at about 9m DEBT and 2m SACRIFICE thus only need to pay another 7m SACRIFICE  for next PAYOUT? 


hope it make sense, it seems like there are 3 important values, SACRIFICE , PAYOUT and DEBT.


on "another" topic, its said that it isn't profitable, but as i see it, Dwarfs are very profitables : 

  • You can get artifacts that reduce dwarf cost (but they will still count as full value sacrifice
  • They cost a lot of food and food is very easy to get from raiding or trading at 2:1 ratio
  • They have very nice hour/cost ratio which let you dump tons of ressources per day and convert it into bg
Do you have anything against Dwarves that you suggest to massively slaughter then?
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Juglar del Viento
Moderator
30 December, 2015, 8:30 PM UTC

err i think im a little bit lost with all variables

i think this work as a bank....money you put in and money you put out

let see you have received a big payout of 1000

so now you have to spend 1000 + tax (12.5% aprox) so the total you have to spend 1125

then when you had spent that amount you will be able to get another payout and for example the payout is 900 in your bank still are 225 and now you have to spent 900 + tax

imagine as a bank loan

bank gives you x amount and you have to return x + a tax

one you have returned the total, then the bank will give you another loan.

i think is well explained in this thread --> http://forum.plarium.com/en/stormfall-age-of-war/game-tutorials/topics/banking-battlegrounds/1/#56302/

any doubts please feel free to ask :)

Regards

Resistance Is Futile
UTC +1:00
djmoody
31 December, 2015, 4:07 PM UTC
What research did you do to come up with the 12.5%?
Everyone has a right to an opinion. No one has a right to their opinion being respected by other if it can't be backed up with rational and logic explanation
UTC +0:00
Mehnslayer
1 January, 2016, 1:53 AM UTC
djmoody said:

What research did you do to come up with the 12.5%?
The 12.5% was taken from Famu, a Facebook moderator... However I questioned Juglar about this as it didn't seem correct to me
E 'n la sua volontade è nostra pace
UTC +10:00
Juglar del Viento
Moderator
1 January, 2016, 10:08 AM UTC

djmoody said:


What research did you do to come up with the 12.5%?

Lord Djmoody

is the tax the masters of bgs i know told me and seems to work. If you are another master and knows one better tax that works please share it and we all will try to see if works

Regards and Happy new year
Resistance Is Futile
UTC +1:00
djmoody
1 January, 2016, 12:06 PM UTC

I told you I am not going to just tell everyone how they work, for multiple reasons.

- its a competitive advantage earned by my league (what I know was handed down from multiple people with a sprinkle of my own work)

- part of the fun/sense of achievement in the game is learning stuff for yourself. If "the answer" just goes on the forum then BG's as content will be killed.

What I will do is point people back on track when incorrect urban myths build up around BG's, this gives new players a chance to work them out rather than be lead down the garden path.

12.5% tax just isn't right. If 12.5% tax was right the losses would be so high that people would never do BG's. Plarium have multiple times posted that returns will be approx 97/98% of what you  load.

And besides the tax affects what is retained in your bank - not the loading value BG's payout at, which is a factor of their level.

Seeing as this advice has been ignored b4 - let me show you my credentials (achieved on the same day, 1st is Off, 2nd is Def):



(PS and zero of that increase was coined, although it is slighly distorted by +10% items which I used to help control my loading)

Everyone has a right to an opinion. No one has a right to their opinion being respected by other if it can't be backed up with rational and logic explanation
UTC +0:00
Juglar del Viento
Moderator
1 January, 2016, 1:32 PM UTC

as you can understand i have opened one thread to try to help people to understand bgs and try to give them the oportunity of getting big payouts

trying to avoid the frustating of seeing a lot of pics of fantastics rewards they are not able to get.

im sure you have mastered ur method of doing bgs to get ur fabolous army and you are free to share it or not

i gave some ways to hit bgs as the way i was learning them and seems good to get the big payouts.

i repeat if you have one better, explain it if not please dont answer every post saying ' its not right' and 'its not in that way' cause that not helps people only confuses.

the other thread i have posted this:

HOW WE HAVE CONSTRUCT OUR BANK
The bank value, also known as ‘The Bank’ is what you need to repay before you get another reward. By adding 12.5% interest to the bank, you reduce the chance of coming in under your bank. Technically the bank should reward you as soon as you reach it, however, it doesn’t always. The Interest will reduce your efficiency in reaching the bank, but help ensure a reward when you arrive. 
Can the interest be reduced? Yes, but you run the chance of underestimating and by undershooting the bank on a successful elimination, may either run out of missions or overspend by too much to make the next reward profitable.

and

Nothing in this game is a guarantee, especially when dealing with mathematical algorithms. There are variances, changes and randomness added all the time.

so all i want is to clarify people his way to bgs discussing all with constructive thoughts

Regards and Happy New Year

Resistance Is Futile
UTC +1:00
BiohazarD
Moderator
1 January, 2016, 9:16 PM UTC
.
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Rakib
4 January, 2016, 3:21 PM UTC
Thanks a lot for the tips
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