What is the best strategy for defensive BGs ?

19 Replies
Erwan
8 November, 2017, 12:48 PM UTC

Hello,

I decided to build a defensive army, and I know BGs use to be a good option to build an army. I considered two options, here it is:


The first option is to use huntresses, barbarians and demons, use them to defeat BGs and recover stronger units (griffins and golems).

The second option is to train pathfinders (or huntresses), reavers, necromancers and chimeras and sacrifice them into very high level BGs so that I can fill the wallet. Then, I use my defensive units to defeat middle level BGs so I recover defensive units.


In your opinion, which of these two options is the best ?



There is nothing more exhilarating than to be shot at without result. - W. Churchill -
UTC +1:00
Juglar del Viento
Moderator
8 November, 2017, 1:33 PM UTC

Lord Erwan

as many lords can say the best deffensive troops for ratio time/resources are:

on infantry are huntress, but if u want to load offensive bgs then u should use this slot to train pathfinders

on cavaltry are barbarians, but the same if u want to load off bgs then u should use this slot to train reavers

on occults are demons

on beast u should train quimeras for loading offensive bgs

in one day always talking that u have ur obelisk runes at max,u can

- train on infantry 164 pathfinders or 234 huntress but those 164 banks more than huntress

- train on cavaltry 36 reavers or 86 barbarians, in this case the 86 deffensive banks more than reavers

- train on occults 31 demons that banks more than 22 griffins u can build in one day

- train on beast 14 quimeras that banks more than 14 necros or 18 warlocks u can build in one day

the maths are simply: u can send daily to bgs 164 pathfinders 36 reavers 31 demons and 14 quimeras....u can do the maths for that resources loaded on bgs daily.

u also can take a look to this table. although i use mine that says me what i can load in 1. 5 10 20 or 30 days only changing the training days.



hope this can help u

Regards

Resistance Is Futile
UTC +1:00
Erwan
8 November, 2017, 1:57 PM UTC

Juglar del Viento said:


Lord Erwan

as many lords can say the best deffensive troops for ratio time/resources are:

on infantry are huntress, but if u want to load offensive bgs then u should use this slot to train pathfinders

on cavaltry are barbarians, but the same if u want to load off bgs then u should use this slot to train reavers

on occults are demons

on beast u should train quimeras for loading offensive bgs

in one day always talking that u have ur obelisk runes at max,u can

- train on infantry 164 pathfinders or 234 huntress but those 164 banks more than huntress

- train on cavaltry 36 reavers or 86 barbarians, in this case the 86 deffensive banks more than reavers

- train on occults 31 demons that banks more than 22 griffins u can build in one day

- train on beast 14 quimeras that banks more than 14 necros or 18 warlocks u can build in one day

the maths are simply: u can send daily to bgs 164 pathfinders 36 reavers 31 demons and 14 quimeras....u can do the maths for that resources loaded on bgs daily.

u also can take a look to this table. although i use mine that says me what i can load in 1. 5 10 20 or 30 days only changing the training days.



hope this can help u

Regards

In your opinion, what is the best option ? option #1 or option #2 ?

I don't know if I want to load offensive or defensive BGs. What's best for you ?


I'm afraid of loading too much iron in the BGs, which would bring me unwanted rewards (for exemple, 40 golems and 10 necromancers each time ; or 200 000 iron).

I would like to be sure it's just... possible and worthy to spend offensive units in the BGs to recover defensive units. Is it possible, and is it worthy ?

There is nothing more exhilarating than to be shot at without result. - W. Churchill -
UTC +1:00
Juglar del Viento
Moderator
8 November, 2017, 2:36 PM UTC

Lord Erwan

every player has his own system about hitting one type or the other

i usually do deff bgs only with demons, but also load the bank with offensives cause i dont mind receiving a payout with 40 gollems and 10 necros. even more cause that way i keep the offensive and spend again the deffensive except they are griffins.

about receiving resources as payout, try to full the max u can ur barns and warehouses before hitting bgs to avoid that payouts.

about spending offensive to receive deffensive....dont know i dont do that, as i said all good offensive i keep it for my army. so in any case i could spend pathfinders and reavers to keep the possible offensive u could receive in a deffensive bg.


hope this can help you

Regards

Resistance Is Futile
UTC +1:00
Stiletto
8 November, 2017, 3:46 PM UTC

I find def bg are slower to fill the bank. We seem to need twice as many units on the same level bg so are they ever economical?
Also, stockpiling defense will destroy your food production
No fun logging in every day to find empty barns


We get a lot of golems/demons from tournaments so why try for defensive payouts from bg?

On the new unit thread many asked for better bg fodder units to be added, esp those with similar off/def stats and high food costs for banking

Look what they gave us LOL

New coiner occult units


p.s. I dont think it makes any difference to load too much Iron

Gold Iron and Food are converted to a single resource value, so you cannot have too much iron alone

You can yellow line a few red bg, then complete a high level green bg if you want def units as payout
I was very disapointed to do this by accident as I prefer off payouts
correct me if I'm wrong

UTC +8:00
Erwan
8 November, 2017, 4:07 PM UTC
Stiletto said:

Gold Iron and Food are converted to a single resource value

Do you have a source for this, please ?

There is nothing more exhilarating than to be shot at without result. - W. Churchill -
UTC +1:00
Stiletto
8 November, 2017, 4:18 PM UTC

Erwan said:


Stiletto said:

Gold Iron and Food are converted to a single resource value

Do you have a source for this, please ?

Plarium will never tell us the truth about the bank, but many keep spreadsheets and always convert to a single resource value which seems to have been proved true

This expains why it is best to sacrifice any units with a high food cost to build, and get units with a high gold/iron value as payout
UTC +8:00
Erwan
8 November, 2017, 4:51 PM UTC

Okay, so it seems that the best choice is to train pathfinders, reavers, golems/demons and chimeras, no matters if we want to build an offensive or a defensive army. Do you agree with that ?




There is nothing more exhilarating than to be shot at without result. - W. Churchill -
UTC +1:00
Gadheras
8 November, 2017, 5:33 PM UTC

You probably get more DEF units out from do DEF BG's,(then again I got both dragons and griffins from doing both DEF and OFF bg's before) but what you load the bg's with doesn't really matter. Or at least shouldn't. Im no expert at bg's but imho its the level of the bg that decide what kind of units you prone to get back. All the bank care about is the resources you need to fill up before you get a payout. If you load with OFF or DEF doesn't mean anything. 


If all you care about is a payout from a bg, just sink as much resources into it you can. But if you wan't the XP, you should play it smart, but then you won't fill the bank as fast though. 
UTC +2:00
Erwan
8 November, 2017, 6:41 PM UTC

According to a very good player on my server : "BGs are simply a resource exchange".


Thanks guys, this is usefull.
There is nothing more exhilarating than to be shot at without result. - W. Churchill -
UTC +1:00
BiohazarD
Moderator
8 November, 2017, 8:07 PM UTC

Erwan said:


Okay, so it seems that the best choice is to train pathfinders, reavers, golems/demons and chimeras, no matters if we want to build an offensive or a defensive army. Do you agree with that ?




Yep, the best option is the one that lets you load the most resources per day, which is building pathfinders, reavers, golems, and chimeras. Then just load them all into defense bgs if you want def troops.  

Any opinions expressed by me are my own and do not necessarily represent the opinions of or constitute official statements by Plarium.
UTC +0:00
djmoody
9 November, 2017, 12:53 AM UTC

Looks like you got your answer. It option 2 by approx 50%.

Interestingly you got this answer from me in one of your very first threads but decided to report me for spamming or some such stupidity rather than read and absorb the guidance.

Too bad if you now have very high level BG's though as the tax on the BG's is going to kill the profit of using the uber loading troops in BG's and swapping them for normal troops.
Everyone has a right to an opinion. No one has a right to their opinion being respected by other if it can't be backed up with rational and logic explanation
UTC +0:00
hwellshan
12 November, 2017, 2:43 PM UTC

BGs pay 25% DEF and 75% OFF so you have to load and collect on a DEF BG to improve the odds and do it during an event.

 BGs charge a 15% commission to convert resources. keep your BG levels low clear them on a good BG tourney and only do them every 10 days to 2 weeks build and rotate tourneys. for best def returns only load infantry and cavalry more infantry loaded produces more Occult rewards more Calvary produces more Bestial units. keep your BGs under level 45 for best ongoing rewards. use the load charts for levels and payouts. they can be slightly manipulated to favour DEF and which units you want returned. But overall BGs should not be your sole source of DEF if thats what you want. do not load occult and bestial when you can just produce them. you will just shrink your army BGs charge so events offset the charge with extra rewards. your production times vary with dragonstone and obelisk load your quickest units to cook. its about resource load so just work out what cooks the quickest and what the resource per minute or hour of units are a single chart cannot answer that for all players at various boosts.  

rotate your events sometimes using your unwanted OFF and converting via PvP events is more effective on a 2.2 tourney. always take DEF rewards for all events. 

doing BGs all the time will 100% shrink a DEF not grow it . if you do not have full storage the resources come back as resources so all the units you cook to do BGs are a total waste of time.  

to hit the load levels for a pay its generally a mix of DEF and OFF to load the BG bank but if you take the top OFF BG out you get OFF so you must clear a DEF BG to take a DEF reward and they can split payouts to DEF and OFF you can only improve your DEF odds not assure them. which is why you keep the Occult and Bestial units and use the Bestial for cooking undead dragons and griffs if you do not have all the amulets to run 24hr production. building the strongest OFF to load in for DEF BGs is madness. you should not exceed level 45 and INF and Cal are best at these levels. 

i am a DEF player and manipulate BGs for DEF most do not as it naturally favours OFF pay outs. But DEF building is hard work and alone BGs are not the answer the game mechanics are wrong. you have to work all areas of the game and trade OFF in PvP and take DEF rewards to offset the 75% pays in BGs to OFF. you can have an equal or stronger DEF but the game fights you in every area to achieve it. 

UTC +1:00
Sir Dan Saul Knight
12 November, 2017, 10:35 PM UTC

hwellshan said:


BGs pay 25% DEF and 75% OFF 

Well in theory split payouts on def BG's are supposed to be 75% def and 25% off payouts, while split payouts on offence BG's are supposed to be 75% off and 25% def.

BUT because Plarium didn't implement correctly, this is calculated on troops numbers only. As a result a griffen/dragon def BG payout is actually approx 50/50 when measured in power or resources. Basically they messed up the payouts to have a significant bias to offence.

UTC +0:00
BiohazarD
Moderator
13 November, 2017, 3:08 AM UTC
Sir Dan Saul Knight said:

hwellshan said:


BGs pay 25% DEF and 75% OFF 

Well in theory split payouts on def BG's are supposed to be 75% def and 25% off payouts, while split payouts on offence BG's are supposed to be 75% off and 25% def.

BUT because Plarium didn't implement correctly, this is calculated on troops numbers only. As a result a griffen/dragon def BG payout is actually approx 50/50 when measured in power or resources. Basically they messed up the payouts to have a significant bias to offence.

Yeah i was wondering where he got that 25/75 from.  There's a lot of variance, sometimes on a def bg you'll get 90% def 10% off, sometimes it's close to 50/50, but I've never seen a def bg give 75% off.  
Any opinions expressed by me are my own and do not necessarily represent the opinions of or constitute official statements by Plarium.
UTC +0:00
hwellshan
13 November, 2017, 4:29 AM UTC
BiohazarD said:

Sir Dan Saul Knight said:

hwellshan said:


BGs pay 25% DEF and 75% OFF 

Well in theory split payouts on def BG's are supposed to be 75% def and 25% off payouts, while split payouts on offence BG's are supposed to be 75% off and 25% def.

BUT because Plarium didn't implement correctly, this is calculated on troops numbers only. As a result a griffen/dragon def BG payout is actually approx 50/50 when measured in power or resources. Basically they messed up the payouts to have a significant bias to offence.

Yeah i was wondering where he got that 25/75 from.  There's a lot of variance, sometimes on a def bg you'll get 90% def 10% off, sometimes it's close to 50/50, but I've never seen a def bg give 75% off.  
Total pay not a DEF BG pay if you load equal DEF and OFF and take even DEF and OFF pay the % is 75% OFF to 25% DEF or a 50/50 split on a DEF BG which are usually an OFF at the highest level.. so unless you manipulate your DEF will always shrink in BGs... i never said a DEF BG paid primarily OFF... honestly read what i wrote i said take a pay on a DEF BG.. do mods read ? the issue is that you generally do not increase DEF on BGs a game fault you need to shove in front of developers or just watch the plunging PvP scores as the DEF is all dead on the dark plains.... these faults are why the game is dying should have told the player do not waste your time really DEF is pointless 
UTC +1:00
BiohazarD
Moderator
15 November, 2017, 10:23 AM UTC

hwellshan said:


BiohazarD said:


Sir Dan Saul Knight said:


hwellshan said:


BGs pay 25% DEF and 75% OFF 

Well in theory split payouts on def BG's are supposed to be 75% def and 25% off payouts, while split payouts on offence BG's are supposed to be 75% off and 25% def.

BUT because Plarium didn't implement correctly, this is calculated on troops numbers only. As a result a griffen/dragon def BG payout is actually approx 50/50 when measured in power or resources. Basically they messed up the payouts to have a significant bias to offence.

Yeah i was wondering where he got that 25/75 from.  There's a lot of variance, sometimes on a def bg you'll get 90% def 10% off, sometimes it's close to 50/50, but I've never seen a def bg give 75% off.  
Total pay not a DEF BG pay if you load equal DEF and OFF and take even DEF and OFF pay the % is 75% OFF to 25% DEF or a 50/50 split on a DEF BG which are usually an OFF at the highest level.. so unless you manipulate your DEF will always shrink in BGs... i never said a DEF BG paid primarily OFF... honestly read what i wrote i said take a pay on a DEF BG.. do mods read ? the issue is that you generally do not increase DEF on BGs a game fault you need to shove in front of developers or just watch the plunging PvP scores as the DEF is all dead on the dark plains.... these faults are why the game is dying should have told the player do not waste your time really DEF is pointless 

Do mods read?  Only if we can't avoid it :P

Besides, it's really easy to convert off to def.  Just send some offense units to a defense bg then finish it off with defense. 
Any opinions expressed by me are my own and do not necessarily represent the opinions of or constitute official statements by Plarium.
UTC +0:00
IronApex Turok
18 November, 2017, 1:52 AM UTC

basically.... 


no one knows how BGs work, and we have been arguing over it for nearly 5 years. 



UTC +0:00
Juglar del Viento
Moderator
18 November, 2017, 12:29 PM UTC

IronApex Turok said:


basically.... 


no one knows how BGs work, and we have been arguing over it for nearly 5 years. 



Dear Lords

here is how bgs works:

1 first you have to return back your previous big payout to balur

2 when you have ur loan paid then u have to see if the chosen bg is loaded properly

3 if its loaded then it will pay another loan and goto line 1

4 if its not loaded then load and goto line 2

hope this can be helpfull for u all 

Regards ;)

Resistance Is Futile
UTC +1:00
IronApex Turok
18 November, 2017, 3:44 PM UTC
Juglar del Viento said:

IronApex Turok said:


basically.... 


no one knows how BGs work, and we have been arguing over it for nearly 5 years. 



Dear Lords

here is how bgs works:

1 first you have to return back your previous big payout to balur

2 when you have ur loan paid then u have to see if the chosen bg is loaded properly

3 if its loaded then it will pay another loan and goto line 1

4 if its not loaded then load and goto line 2

hope this can be helpfull for u all 

Regards ;)


UTC +0:00
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