This topic is closed

plarium on the frenzie hack ??????

39 Replies
trevor
25 September, 2017, 5:26 PM UTC

everyone was told today  you would say what the outcome was ????

 so where is it ,  or are you doing what you do best  put your head in the ground !!!!

players lost troops and  your server was hacked from what we are told ???

so what is  going on ?? as you hold  paypal and card details on line you are acting  as a 3rd party server

we need to know our card details are safe ?????

we need  action now not more waiting ???

your 500 million deal could go up in smoke if it gets out  your service is not safe ????? 

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IronApex Turok
25 September, 2017, 9:19 PM UTC
trevor said:

everyone was told today  you would say what the outcome was ????

 so where is it ,  or are you doing what you do best  put your head in the ground !!!!

players lost troops and  your server was hacked from what we are told ???

so what is  going on ?? as you hold  paypal and card details on line you are acting  as a 3rd party server

we need to know our card details are safe ?????

we need  action now not more waiting ???

your 500 million deal could go up in smoke if it gets out  your service is not safe ????? 

the deal is done, but Avi Shalel is responsible for maintaining the business for 5 years.  with a breach like this, it could cost him 
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Gadheras
25 September, 2017, 10:33 PM UTC
IronApex Turok said:

trevor said:

everyone was told today  you would say what the outcome was ????

 so where is it ,  or are you doing what you do best  put your head in the ground !!!!

players lost troops and  your server was hacked from what we are told ???

so what is  going on ?? as you hold  paypal and card details on line you are acting  as a 3rd party server

we need to know our card details are safe ?????

we need  action now not more waiting ???

your 500 million deal could go up in smoke if it gets out  your service is not safe ????? 

the deal is done, but Avi Shalel is responsible for maintaining the business for 5 years.  with a breach like this, it could cost him 
Well if the account been breached twice (or more) now. Then someone have the means to get into players accounts at Plarium. Or the computer or email of the player is compromised in some way or the other, and the player failed to secure it after the first breach. If its the first, then Plarium got a very serious issue at their hands. But if it had been the first, then we would seen a much larger surge of such malicious activity imho.
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Gadheras
25 September, 2017, 10:49 PM UTC

trevor said:


from what i just herd frenzie will get nothing back ,

 plarium doing what it does best ,  ********

a player loses 1 billion offence  plarium then has her account

 hacked again and the fort was moved while in plariums hand  lol what a  total bunch of plums running that company 

the account was hacked 2 times and the chimps and apes cant do anything  its allmost a joke 

 plarium i  would have thought this time you would have got your  act together best way to teach you now is to never spend anything in this game ever  lol not worth alot if your players wont spend anything :p


Well, if Plarium doesn't want to reinburse anything means they found no sign of the account been breached on their end. And if it done on the players end, they probably go with the "its not our responsibility to secure your devices, its yours".In other games I wont mention, I know players that had their accounts compromised, and the company did total, or limited reinbursement.  


If I knew my computer had been compromised in one way or the other, or my email accounts. I would taken measurements to secure things, or at least try my best to find out what happened on my end.
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BiohazarD
Moderator
25 September, 2017, 11:37 PM UTC
Gadheras said:

IronApex Turok said:

trevor said:

everyone was told today  you would say what the outcome was ????

 so where is it ,  or are you doing what you do best  put your head in the ground !!!!

players lost troops and  your server was hacked from what we are told ???

so what is  going on ?? as you hold  paypal and card details on line you are acting  as a 3rd party server

we need to know our card details are safe ?????

we need  action now not more waiting ???

your 500 million deal could go up in smoke if it gets out  your service is not safe ????? 

the deal is done, but Avi Shalel is responsible for maintaining the business for 5 years.  with a breach like this, it could cost him 
Well if the account been breached twice (or more) now. Then someone have the means to get into players accounts at Plarium. Or the computer or email of the player is compromised in some way or the other, and the player failed to secure it after the first breach. If its the first, then Plarium got a very serious issue at their hands. But if it had been the first, then we would seen a much larger surge of such malicious activity imho.
If the only breaches have been of accounts controlled by one player it's much more likely that player has malware installed on their computer and the hacker is just seeing when they change their password than it is that plarium's server is compromised.  Otherwise I can't see why they would limit their target to one person instead of going after all the big players.  
Any opinions expressed by me are my own and do not necessarily represent the opinions of or constitute official statements by Plarium.
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Gadheras
26 September, 2017, 12:41 AM UTC

BiohazarD said:


Gadheras said:


IronApex Turok said:


trevor said:


everyone was told today  you would say what the outcome was ????

 so where is it ,  or are you doing what you do best  put your head in the ground !!!!

players lost troops and  your server was hacked from what we are told ???

so what is  going on ?? as you hold  paypal and card details on line you are acting  as a 3rd party server

we need to know our card details are safe ?????

we need  action now not more waiting ???

your 500 million deal could go up in smoke if it gets out  your service is not safe ????? 

the deal is done, but Avi Shalel is responsible for maintaining the business for 5 years.  with a breach like this, it could cost him 
Well if the account been breached twice (or more) now. Then someone have the means to get into players accounts at Plarium. Or the computer or email of the player is compromised in some way or the other, and the player failed to secure it after the first breach. If its the first, then Plarium got a very serious issue at their hands. But if it had been the first, then we would seen a much larger surge of such malicious activity imho.
If the only breaches have been of accounts controlled by one player it's much more likely that player has malware installed on their computer and the hacker is just seeing when they change their password than it is that plarium's server is compromised.  Otherwise I can't see why they would limit their target to one person instead of going after all the big players.  

There is no economical gain to be had break into Plarium accounts, because you cant take player assets in the game and sell them off for reach world cash, like you can with games such as wow and other more traditional theme park mmos. And if this was an attack of some sort of malicious intent to hurt the Plarium severs as whole, it would a much bigger attack and many more accounts affected. As Spock would said, its not logical.


And even if someone random by chance got access to your email account, its not likely they would used it to get access to your Plarium account for the purpose just to wreck havoc and do harm. 

 

For a targeted attack on a single player with maleware, that is not easy. Because you would need a way to inject the maleware onto the computer of the player. You would either need them to download and run a file. Or direct them to a website that would try inject maleware. 

So the most plausible would knew the account details because they was given them. I don't know if Plarium log our logins and keep any logs dating back with like IP's etc. But if they do, and an account show been logged into from a wide range of IP's over a long time. It become very easy for them to wash their hands of the whole thing and call it a player problem. But unless Plarium tell us we got no idea of knowing. Another problem is, if Plarium doesn't tell us the result of the findings etc, then the players will be uneasy and anxious about this could happen to them too. 

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Tiberious
26 September, 2017, 2:54 AM UTC

I do not normally contribute to forums preferring to read and learn rather than show my limited knowledge on whatever subject is under discussion, however since I now find myself as the interim marshal of Emperors and having a vested interest in the outcome of this I feel it is necessary to add something that I haven't seen  so far

I don't claim to know anything about hacking, cracking coding or much about software at all for that matter, nor do I know who is responsible for this mess.

However virtual worlds aside I have worked in over 30 countries in my career so have a basic understanding of international law as it applies to this incident and that is regardless whose system was penetrated and by what method it was undeniably only one thing - Identity theft. 

That is a crime, Quote.

“Identity theft”: Taking identification or personal information in a manner analogous to theft, including theft of tangible documents and intangible information and deceptively persuading individuals to surrender documents or information voluntarily.

Identity-related crime with economic or financial elements includes cases where ID abuses are used in support of other crimes for the purpose of a financial or other material benefit (vast majority) → application of the United Nations Convention against Transnational Organized Crime

Under this definition a crime has been committed and individuals have lost assets under the care of the service and security that Plarium provide through no fault of the individual and these assets could be replaced at zero cost to Plarium if they so choose.

The follow on to this is that should Plarium choose not to replace these assets and subsequently accept funds from the players to replace them then they are in effect profiting from a criminal act and by definition of the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 Australia and Israel are committing a crime themselves.

This may sound a little over the top to some but given that the cost of replacing the units lost is in excess of $80,000 US it starts to get real very quick.

These are just my thoughts on the matter.

T.



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BiohazarD
Moderator
26 September, 2017, 3:41 AM UTC

Tiberious said:


I do not normally contribute to forums preferring to read and learn rather than show my limited knowledge on whatever subject is under discussion, however since I now find myself as the interim marshal of Emperors and having a vested interest in the outcome of this I feel it is necessary to add something that I haven't seen  so far

I don't claim to know anything about hacking, cracking coding or much about software at all for that matter, nor do I know who is responsible for this mess.

However virtual worlds aside I have worked in over 30 countries in my career so have a basic understanding of international law as it applies to this incident and that is regardless whose system was penetrated and by what method it was undeniably only one thing - Identity theft. 

That is a crime, Quote.

“Identity theft”: Taking identification or personal information in a manner analogous to theft, including theft of tangible documents and intangible information and deceptively persuading individuals to surrender documents or information voluntarily.

Identity-related crime with economic or financial elements includes cases where ID abuses are used in support of other crimes for the purpose of a financial or other material benefit (vast majority) → application of the United Nations Convention against Transnational Organized Crime

Under this definition a crime has been committed and individuals have lost assets under the care of the service and security that Plarium provide through no fault of the individual and these assets could be replaced at zero cost to Plarium if they so choose.

The follow on to this is that should Plarium choose not to replace these assets and subsequently accept funds from the players to replace them then they are in effect profiting from a criminal act and by definition of the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 Australia and Israel are committing a crime themselves.

This may sound a little over the top to some but given that the cost of replacing the units lost is in excess of $80,000 US it starts to get real very quick.

These are just my thoughts on the matter.

T.



I could build a billion offense on an account for less than $10,000.  I'm not sure how you managed to spend $80,000 on it, but that doesn't make it worth that much.  

But the price is irrelevant.  

If the player willingly gave their login details to someone else (however that person managed to convince them to share their details doesn't matter), they violated plarium's terms of service.  Therefore the player would be at fault and plarium would be under no obligation to replace the lost goods.  

Also, unless the other person signed a contract specifying what they were supposed to do with the account when they were provided the login details for it, the other person could claim they believed it was being given to them as a gift and therefore theft would not be provable.  

(This of course assumes that it was someone who was at some point given access to the account by the player.  If the login details were stolen through the use of malware then it is obviously a crime, but unless there is a police investigation and they find malware on the player's computer this will be very difficult to prove.)  
Any opinions expressed by me are my own and do not necessarily represent the opinions of or constitute official statements by Plarium.
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Trentos
26 September, 2017, 4:15 AM UTC
Is this Plarium's opinion on the incident Biohazard? Or just the opinion of one of their representatives (i.e. moderator)?
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Tiberious
26 September, 2017, 4:29 AM UTC

Quote:

Sergey Kryvorotchenko

Community Manager


"And as for the situation that has arisen. Unfortunately, MAD FRENZIE was really hacked.

There's an investigation going on. I’ll keep you informed."



 Tell me Biohazard are you accusing him of lying or simple incompetence?

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IronApex Turok
26 September, 2017, 4:57 AM UTC

Tiberious said:


Quote:

Sergey Kryvorotchenko

Community Manager


"And as for the situation that has arisen. Unfortunately, MAD FRENZIE was really hacked.

There's an investigation going on. I’ll keep you informed."



 Tell me Biohazard are you accusing him of lying or simple incompetence?

Tiberious.... you havent been on the forums much have you....


pretty much any time a CM talks...all you need to read out loud is "air plane noises"   open wide...here comes the spoon!  they are just feeding you a prewritten line. 


the CMs have scripts they respond from.  


On another note,  your post will probably be deleted for violating forum policy, not repeating conversations with CMs. 
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Gadheras
26 September, 2017, 6:25 AM UTC

Tiberious said:


Quote:

Sergey Kryvorotchenko

Community Manager


"And as for the situation that has arisen. Unfortunately, MAD FRENZIE was really hacked.

There's an investigation going on. I’ll keep you informed."



 Tell me Biohazard are you accusing him of lying or simple incompetence?


Its easy to accuse Plarium of incompetence you know :p


Question: What would be worse for Plarium, addmit they been hacked, and accounts are wide open for attacks, or claim a spesific user been hacked? What would given the biggest backlash hmmm? Plarium got no means really to claim a user got hacked, based on just different IP's logged into an account. And if they got evidence of someone actually hacked into an account serverside, then they got a major security problem that would affect us all.


And keep us informed resulted in two threads on the topic was closed down, and this one probably next one to get closed down. Trying to press Plarium to be accountable, just end up give you a ban from the forum for a while. 
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Gadheras
26 September, 2017, 6:34 AM UTC

Tiberious said:



That is a crime, Quote.



 If you lend your car away to a buddy and he end up wreck it. Is that a crime? Or did you get burned due to own judgement calls? Oh and if someone invested 80k into this game, I really pitty them. You might spend on this game, but what you spend on have no monetary value in the real world, you cant sell it again for rl cash. What you get is pixels on the screen with no little vaue else than boost your ego and feel good about. 


If you want to treat this as a criminal investegation, Im quite sure two questions would arise fast: Intent and access. 
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Trentos
26 September, 2017, 7:33 AM UTC

Intent - very clear. Someone with knowledge of the game (most likely someone that plays the game) sought benefit from their exploits. They caused significant damage to not one, but two leagues.

Access - this is more or less a mute point. How the access the was gained has nothing to do with the intent. In fact, it was just a means of carrying out that players intentions.

The intent, and consequences of the act, is what we should be concentrating on. A criminal investigation? I doubt that is a serious avenue for those affected. Whereas, universal damnation of what has taken place is something I'd personally expect from a strong community. Do we have a strong community here? Obviously not if players hell bent on defending this find of act. Those excusing this act may think they are offering rational opinions on the matter, but at the end of the day they are just making excuses for the perpetrators in a public forum.
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Gadheras
26 September, 2017, 7:50 AM UTC

Trentos said:


Intent - very clear. Someone with knowledge of the game (most likely someone that plays the game) sought benefit from their exploits. They caused significant damage to not one, but two leagues.

Access - this is more or less a mute point. How the access the was gained has nothing to do with the intent. In fact, it was just a means of carrying out that players intentions.

The intent, and consequences of the act, is what we should be concentrating on. A criminal investigation? I doubt that is a serious avenue for those affected. Whereas, universal damnation of what has taken place is something I'd personally expect from a strong community. Do we have a strong community here? Obviously not if players hell bent on defending this find of act. Those excusing this act may think they are offering rational opinions on the matter, but at the end of the day they are just making excuses for the perpetrators in a public forum.

Tiberious quoted this as a crime. Why my response to him was about criminal investegation. Which is way to far fetched to ever take place, because police got a lot better time to do with their time. 


Access is not the mute point, because if access is based on shared login details. Even you shared the details for another purpose than what ended up be the outcome, you already broke the rules of the game NOT TO SHARE your details. So you would be at own fault for any damage happend to your account due to those shared details. You put yourself at risk, and got burned, you got yourself to be blamed. 


If the person who did it is a horrible person or not, well not really the issue. If you let the Fox inside the chicken coup, you can't get mad if your chickens end up dead. 

Without actual evidence of what happened is put on the table, no one can claim hacks and hacking little more than I can claim I saw flying pigs and you would have just to trust me on facevalue there is flying pigs.


 Veritas vos liberabit 


I'm on no ones side in this other than want to know what actual happend with evidence of what happened other than facevalue. I'm a grumpy old fart that hate everyone equally! :p


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ThatGuy
26 September, 2017, 7:55 AM UTC

I've been trying to stay out of this, but there's something bothering me.  

Account Sharing is against the rules, but players see it is not enforced.  Account sharing has become so widespread that to enforce it now would be impractical.  People are so confident that Plarium does not care that they openly admit to account sharing on the forum.

Alt Abuse is against the rules, but players do not see it enforced.  Alt abuse is widespread.  There is a chance there are more alts than real players on the server.

I've seen 3 hacking/hijackings mentioned on the forums.  The vandalism of Bob the Dog's account, the hijacking of King Chaos' acct, and the hacking of Frenzie's acct/sabotage of Emperors.  In each case, Plarium has denied responsibility with their scripted line that the site is totally secure and it is the player's responsibility to safeguard their accounts.  If Plarium has acted against the hackers/hijackers, those actions have not been visible to players.

The community is seeing people get away with hacking/hijacking.  The community is seeing Plarium's stance is to take no responsibility while assuring us that our accounts are safe.  This is not meant as an accusation; it is my observation from reading the forum.  It is possible that Plarium is taking actions players cannot see. 

The pattern worries me.  Lack of enforcement has allowed other rule breaks to become widespread.  I don't know about the rest of the community, but I do not want to see the game degraded to the point where players attack rivals' accounts because they know Plarium will not act.

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Oracle
26 September, 2017, 8:05 AM UTC

I will tell you what Plarium will do they will lock these post, and wait for it to expire and dumb it in the archives/trash/Spam. 

With regards to Biohazard comments, Very troubling. 

He is openly contradicting his boss, The CM. Openly called him a liar for stating the result of confirmed investigation. I would like to see how these end. A moderator openly violating his boss in the open.


But the price is irrelevant.  

Are you serious, The price irrelevant. Do you know the history of Frenzie, and particular how much effort, economically and otherwise was placed on it.  Frenzies account, the outcome of these investigation affect, not only Frenzie but a LOT of people. Let me remind you that the Emps worked very hard to get Frenzie where she is, Financially and otherwise. Not to mention the money spend buy her, and the pain and duties she performed to get that money. And you're saying its IRRELEVANT. 

If you care about these community, and have an once of respect for it, you'll apologize for uttering nonsensical, arbitrary words in reference to a prodigious mammoth of a problem, these issue is. 

You're taking it far too lightly, and you could incriminate yourself should Emps and the community press charges, not limited to lawsuit and privacy bridges. And that statements, together with others you since uttered could be used as evidence to a thesis that Plarium is willingly taking these matter lightly. 

Biohazard has killed the forum.
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Gadheras
26 September, 2017, 8:09 AM UTC

ThatGuy said:


I've been trying to stay out of this, but there's something bothering me.  

Account Sharing is against the rules, but players see it is not enforced.  Account sharing has become so widespread that to enforce it now would be impractical.  People are so confident that Plarium does not care that they openly admit to account sharing on the forum.

Alt Abuse is against the rules, but players do not see it enforced.  Alt abuse is widespread.  There is a chance there are more alts than real players on the server.

I've seen 3 hacking/hijackings mentioned on the forums.  The vandalism of Bob the Dog's account, the hijacking of King Chaos' acct, and the hacking of Frenzie's acct/sabotage of Emperors.  In each case, Plarium has denied responsibility with their scripted line that the site is totally secure and it is the player's responsibility to safeguard their accounts.  If Plarium has acted against the hackers/hijackers, those actions have not been visible to players.

The community is seeing people get away with hacking/hijacking.  The community is seeing Plarium's stance is to take no responsibility while assuring us that our accounts are safe.  This is not meant as an accusation; it is my observation from reading the forum.  It is possible that Plarium is taking actions players cannot see. 

The pattern worries me.  Lack of enforcement has allowed other rule breaks to become widespread.  I don't know about the rest of the community, but I do not want to see the game degraded to the point where players attack rivals' accounts because they know Plarium will not act.

You can't enforce stupid. And if Plarium come to the conclusion damage was done due to account sharing, its not their problem to fix, its a player problem. Their stance would probably be like "sad face panda" sucks to be you, but its your own fault. As a player, would you claim you got hacked, or would you fess up to breaking the rules and been liberal with your account details? Its like get caught doing something really stupid with yourself to blame, but don't want to own up to it rising lose face. 

Maybe Plariums way of enfoce account sharing, is to just give a damn if someone get wrcked due to it. The community doesn't see people get away with hacking/hijacking, because no clear evidence of that actually taken place is brought to the table. What we see is Plarium state its not our problem, its yours. 


The chance of players spending on multiple accounts is most likely why Plarium doesn't enforce that rule. 


The most plausible when people claim hacking, is the player been liberal or careless with their login details. Like with anything else when connected to the internet, you can invest in tons of security software and such but the biggest security problem is the one between the screen and the chair.


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Gadheras
26 September, 2017, 8:17 AM UTC

Oracle said:


I will tell you what Plarium will do they will lock these post, and wait for it to expire and dumb it in the archives/trash/Spam. 

With regards to Biohazard comments, Very troubling. 

He is openly contradicting his boss, The CM. Openly called him a liar for stating the result of confirmed investigation. I would like to see how these end. A moderator openly violating his boss in the open.


But the price is irrelevant.  

Are you serious, The price irrelevant. Do you know the history of Frenzie, and particular how much effort, economically and otherwise was placed on it.  Frenzies account, the outcome of these investigation affect, not only Frenzie but a LOT of people. Let me remind you that the Emps worked very hard to get Frenzie where she is, Financially and otherwise. Not to mention the money spend buy her, and the pain and duties she performed to get that money. And you're saying its IRRELEVANT. 

If you care about these community, and have an once of respect for it, you'll apologize for uttering nonsensical, arbitrary words in reference to a prodigious mammoth of a problem, these issue is. 

You're taking it far too lightly, and you could incriminate yourself should Emps and the community press charges, not limited to lawsuit and privacy bridges. And that statements, together with others you since uttered could be used as evidence to a thesis that Plarium is willingly taking these matter lightly. 

What people spend their money on is all up to themselfs, You could invest your life savings in some pyramide scheme and end up bust. Nothing in this game got monetary value as it can not be re-sold in real life. If you spend thousands on some pink unuicorn fairy pixels, well, HEY, you get what you paid for. Imho your words just prove how this game turned into a ludacris height of spending, you all forgot what a game is? Is this game of wallets?


I would REALLY love to see someone spend money on a lawsuit over this. How about it Orcale, would you be covering legal fees to make this happen?


Without actual evidence of what happend, this entire thing is just moth and you have to look at what is most plausible when you look at the greater picture. 
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Trentos
26 September, 2017, 8:21 AM UTC

"If the person who did it is a horrible person or not, well not really the issue"

I beg to differ on this Gadheras. You may have a load voice, but that doesn't mean your opinion is the only one that should be heard. I'm not trying to bust your balls in anyway. Just offering a completely opposite view. A view I strongly believe in.

To say that the community should ignore the actions of this person is abhorrent. In fact, multiple people knew of what was going on, which makes this incident even more worrying to the majority of well meaning players on the server.


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