Urgent help

14 Replies
mistico
17 July, 2017, 4:55 PM UTC

Greetings to everyone.

I usually use the minimum field rewards to pin down the highest field.

But after a last round of races I went a lot with the troops, despite the maximum payment received on a liv 59 was 748 dragons 150 grifons and despite having returned a lot more than the last highest reward received (more usual interest).

I was wondering if the troops dropped to the highest were calculated in the bank or calculated only when the latter was dropped.

Thank you for any answers.

P.S.

I started with 9800k strength attack points now I'm at 6600k strength points

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brunsonthomas
17 July, 2017, 5:53 PM UTC
mistico said:

Greetings to everyone.

I usually use the minimum field rewards to pin down the highest field.

But after a last round of races I went a lot with the troops, despite the maximum payment received on a liv 59 was 748 dragons 150 grifons and despite having returned a lot more than the last highest reward received (more usual interest).

I was wondering if the troops dropped to the highest were calculated in the bank or calculated only when the latter was dropped.

Thank you for any answers.

P.S.

I started with 9800k strength attack points now I'm at 6600k strength points

The Battleground banking is one of the hardest parts of this game to explain. Unless it is a Quest Battleground that tells you what you get all units that cost resources count in your bank. So wraiths do not count since they do not cost you resources. Battleground payouts are extremely difficult to predict. The best thing I can tell you is the more resources in your bank the better your chance for a better payout. There are several good Battleground calculators. I have created my own banking spreadsheet but I am not confident enough in it to share it yet. 
UTC +5:00
Juglar del Viento
Moderator
17 July, 2017, 7:14 PM UTC

mistico said:


Greetings to everyone.

I usually use the minimum field rewards to pin down the highest field.

But after a last round of races I went a lot with the troops, despite the maximum payment received on a liv 59 was 748 dragons 150 grifons and despite having returned a lot more than the last highest reward received (more usual interest).

I was wondering if the troops dropped to the highest were calculated in the bank or calculated only when the latter was dropped.

Thank you for any answers.

P.S.

I started with 9800k strength attack points now I'm at 6600k strength points

Lord Mistico

let me explain with ur payout in that 53 and the troops u received:

in fact u received more than usual payment of a 53. those dragons and griffins are about 19.3M of resources but let me try to explain.

1st step: what has happened to receive that payout.

its easy u have loaded the bank with arround that amount of resources, enough to load that level and get the payout

2nd step: what happens now.

well lets increase the level. you have received 19.3M of resources so now ur bank is the amount loaded before the payout - the amount ur have received. Unfortunately nobody can know the amount you had on ur bank before the hit but be sure that amount is more than the 19.3M u received.

my tip here is: set ur new bank to zero. Sure could be more than zero or a bit negative but for the next round to get the big payout u can set it to zero. it can help you to trace better what amount is going to be on ur bank

3rd step: what i do for my next payout

errrrr....mmmm....ok ok i will talk all this about theory.

well ur new new bank begins from zero. so u want another big payout, let say to make it easy in another 53 (now u know in a 53 u must bank arround 19.x M of res, well in fact more)

now u have to spend troops tracing the resources and increasing the bank to that amount (arround 19.xx M)

once u have reached that amount u have to calculate the tax of ur payouts so lets say that u have not got small payouts and the amount is still 19.3m. for tax u have to increase it arround 10-15% and for make it easy lets say 10% 

now u have to spend another 2M (+/-) for pay the tax and once u have done u can finish another 53, cross the fingers, put some candles to ur prefered saint and pray

arround 60-70% that 53 will pay u again.


Hope all this can help u in ur race to BG's .... Good Luck

Regards


Ps1: come on pro bgs players to discuss this and learn the bgs all together.

Ps2: just realized this is on tutorials....i move it to Game Discussion for player to disscuss this

Resistance Is Futile
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nobody
17 July, 2017, 7:54 PM UTC

thank you juglar for your answer

but i have 2 things i don't understand.

1. the op isn't concerned with resources they are concerned with army power.  they lost over 3m power.  if their bank is actually at zero, how do they ever recover that power?  why lose that power other than hero armor?

2.  how is it that the player is just now seeing a problem?
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Juglar del Viento
Moderator
17 July, 2017, 8:00 PM UTC

nobody said:


thank you juglar for your answer

but i have 2 things i don't understand.

1. the op isn't concerned with resources they are concerned with army power.  they lost over 3m power.  if their bank is actually at zero, how do they ever recover that power?  why lose that power other than hero armor?

2.  how is it that the player is just now seeing a problem?

Lord Nobody

as far i know the bg system and banking is with resources and no more. the power depends on what do u use for banking. if u use dragons or griffins and u receive warlock or demons u are going to loose in power points.

how do u recover the power?? expending low power troops with resources trying to get high power troops...in the moment u fill the bank using pathfinders and reavers on that level u are going to recover the power.

its easier filling the bank with that type of units in 40-50 bg levels than doing the same in highest levels

about the second point im not sure what u mean..could u be please more specific ?? thanks in advance

Regards

Resistance Is Futile
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nobody
17 July, 2017, 8:24 PM UTC

Juglar del Viento said:


nobody said:


thank you juglar for your answer

but i have 2 things i don't understand.

1. the op isn't concerned with resources they are concerned with army power.  they lost over 3m power.  if their bank is actually at zero, how do they ever recover that power?  why lose that power other than hero armor?

2.  how is it that the player is just now seeing a problem?

Lord Nobody

as far i know the bg system and banking is with resources and no more. the power depends on what do u use for banking. if u use dragons or griffins and u receive warlock or demons u are going to loose in power points.

how do u recover the power?? expending low power troops with resources trying to get high power troops...in the moment u fill the bank using pathfinders and reavers on that level u are going to recover the power.

its easier filling the bank with that type of units in 40-50 bg levels than doing the same in highest levels

about the second point im not sure what u mean..could u be please more specific ?? thanks in advance

Regards

1.  so you could make a list of troops who simultaneously gain power in the payout without using more resources to build those troops?

meaning that the amount of pathfinders you send fills the bank more efficiently per power point and it is not just a case of spending more resources to use troops with less power.  if you can build troops with more power on the same resources, then what is the point of building lower power troops on the same amount of resources?

2.  i mean how is it that the op has never noticed in their bgs experience, how much they lose compared to how much they gain.  at level 53, they should have noticed it before.

my best week of bgs i only lost 40k power due to all the rewards i received.  i have never gained power or have come close to only - 40k power ever again.
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Juglar del Viento
Moderator
17 July, 2017, 8:37 PM UTC

nobody said:


1.  so you could make a list of troops who simultaneously gain power in the payout without using more resources to build those troops?

meaning that the amount of pathfinders you send fills the bank more efficiently per power point and it is not just a case of spending more resources to use troops with less power.  if you can build troops with more power on the same resources, then what is the point of building lower power troops on the same amount of resources?

2.  i mean how is it that the op has never noticed in their bgs experience, how much they lose compared to how much they gain.  at level 53, they should have noticed it before.

my best week of bgs i only lost 40k power due to all the rewards i received.  i have never gained power or have come close to only - 40k power ever again.

Lord Nobody

really u have cautch me ... LoL.

i dont trace the ratio power points:resources so really i dont know what answer u. in fact maybe pathfinders is not a good example even more if u use a 100% pathfinders relic.

the point of bgs always has been turn low level troops into a high level troops. for this and in the moment bg works for resources you have to look for those troops that gives u the more resources in the less time to build.

as i said at my first post ... lets discuss it here between all the players


Resistance Is Futile
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djmoody
18 July, 2017, 12:29 AM UTC

The production times of each offensive troop are balanced so that they produce identical power/force in a day. The more powerful units take longer to produce, in proportion to their power. 

So it doesn't matter which troops you produce the power output of your production queues is identical.

But the resources required to produce troops varies quite significantly, with pathfinders, reavers and chimera initially looking pointless as they take masses of resources for no power per hour gain.

But when you factor in battlegrounds those troops become uber loading troops. BG's are about loading resource. They can be used to turn resources into troops. The more resource you load the more power you get out. This turns the initial time restriction on power (only 24hrs in a day, with troops taking time to build) into a resource equation (the power you get out is based on maximising the resources per hour/day that you can load.

Or say it a different way - BG's can turn inefficiently built troops (onces with high resource to power ratios) into efficiently built troops (with normal resource to power ratios). This effectively increases the power per hour of your troop production slots.

Not totally sure if this was the point your were driving to above or not.

Now you may take some losses doing BG's but the uplift in power per hour is quite significantly and will outweight the losses. Keeping your BG's very low level and using them to load the uber loading troops, is the best way to maximise your troops production. 


Everyone has a right to an opinion. No one has a right to their opinion being respected by other if it can't be backed up with rational and logic explanation
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mistico
18 July, 2017, 10:38 AM UTC

First of all thank you for the answers.

I would like to be more precise by saying that in the penultimate reward I took 900 wyren then before I took last reward (748 dragons and 150 griffins) I had to lose 650 wyren 400 dragons 1000 negromants 200 wizards 450 explorers 150 conductors ...

I would say that I paid a lot more than what I should have for this I went below all those power points

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toggit
18 July, 2017, 1:41 PM UTC

mistico said:


First of all thank you for the answers.

I would like to be more precise by saying that in the penultimate reward I took 900 wyren then before I took last reward (748 dragons and 150 griffins) I had to lose 650 wyren 400 dragons 1000 negromants 200 wizards 450 explorers 150 conductors ...

I would say that I paid a lot more than what I should have for this I went below all those power points

I agree that the rewards from bg need to be a lot more predictable, but why are you sending your most expensive units to die when we all know you will never get back more than 95% (unless you know an exploit)
sending too many units can be wasteful - try sending one archer first

900 wyverns and 748 dragons is not so good - visit the playtamin website
You should be sending 545k strength, and most of this should be infantry and cavalry to 'upgrade' it to occult and bestiary  http://prntscr.com/fx6vl2

p.s. It is not a 'race', you have all the time in the world :)



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mistico
18 July, 2017, 6:12 PM UTC


Thanks toggit try to follow your advice

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nobody
18 July, 2017, 7:10 PM UTC

djmoody said:


The production times of each offensive troop are balanced so that they produce identical power/force in a day. The more powerful units take longer to produce, in proportion to their power. 

So it doesn't matter which troops you produce the power output of your production queues is identical.

But the resources required to produce troops varies quite significantly, with pathfinders, reavers and chimera initially looking pointless as they take masses of resources for no power per hour gain.

But when you factor in battlegrounds those troops become uber loading troops. BG's are about loading resource. They can be used to turn resources into troops. The more resource you load the more power you get out. This turns the initial time restriction on power (only 24hrs in a day, with troops taking time to build) into a resource equation (the power you get out is based on maximising the resources per hour/day that you can load.

Or say it a different way - BG's can turn inefficiently built troops (onces with high resource to power ratios) into efficiently built troops (with normal resource to power ratios). This effectively increases the power per hour of your troop production slots.


Not totally sure if this was the point your were driving to above or not.

Now you may take some losses doing BG's but the uplift in power per hour is quite significantly and will outweight the losses. Keeping your BG's very low level and using them to load the uber loading troops, is the best way to maximise your troops production. 



that's the general idea of the reason to use those troops.  and strong bgs players know how to build to do bgs.

i am looking at the overview of the game.  players don't just lose resources in bgs, many lose alot of power.  some use the reward troops and that is part of the loss.

when i look at the troops, i see that 7 reavers have more power than 1 chimera.  but loading a chimera for the sake of loading less power doesn't make sense to me.  plus running chimera takes up the spot griffins and dragons would have.

however 2 knights are more powerful than 1 reaver.  so building reavers is specifically building less power in order to load bgs.  this is done to gain wyverns and dragons.  griffins second weakness is to cavalry and is stronger against bestiary.  so building reavers at a power loss to knights and then loading bgs in order to gain bestiary, sounds a bit unproductive to me.  and then some players use that bestiary and lose what i am not sure can even be a gain.

it seems like alot of work to at best;   run in place.  and then there is the situation that i have run into 3 times to the extreme that completely negates any chance of profit.

those are some of my thoughts on troops and the resource/time/power ratios.  some players may have it down, for bgs, but i think many more do not.

when i was resource raiding i would run 24 hrs a day archers, knights, golems/warlocks griffin/wyverns.  since i did knights i never built up the pathfinders.  i used the rest of resources on archers.  and didn't use market to build both knights and pathfinders.



UTC +0:00
djmoody
19 July, 2017, 12:31 AM UTC

The uplift to your power per month by 24/7 production of pathfinders / reavers / chimera and feeding them through BG's is approx 50%.

You have to have no more than around lvl 30/40 BG's or the whole exercise of trying to get your resource out efficiently and effectively becomes too complex for most people to want to bother.

I take your point about possibly wanting to hold other troops types these days. With no real food constraints there is no need to swap small for big troops. The small ones can have quite good benefits in troop match ups.

Everyone has a right to an opinion. No one has a right to their opinion being respected by other if it can't be backed up with rational and logic explanation
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cat in the hat
19 July, 2017, 6:18 AM UTC

Battlegrounds where from a different time when it was for to send troops because they would vanish if you had a negative food production. Since Plarium stopped that from happening battlegrounds are outdated. 

An update to give hero equipment is not worth an effort to do them. (Unless you like wasting hard earned money) Only reason to do them is to be able to keep producing troops. 

An update would be useful but Plarium has no intent to do so.

UTC +6:00
BiohazarD
Moderator
19 July, 2017, 8:34 AM UTC
djmoody said:

The uplift to your power per month by 24/7 production of pathfinders / reavers / chimera and feeding them through BG's is approx 50%.

You have to have no more than around lvl 30/40 BG's or the whole exercise of trying to get your resource out efficiently and effectively becomes too complex for most people to want to bother.

I take your point about possibly wanting to hold other troops types these days. With no real food constraints there is no need to swap small for big troops. The small ones can have quite good benefits in troop match ups.

It's easier to continue building troops if you can keep your food production positive though (of course for some people that's not possible).  
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