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The Five dysfunctions of Leagues

78 Replies
Oracle
27 May, 2017, 2:23 PM UTC

These is part of my case study number 3, which I will soon publish. I thought I put in some prequel. According to one of the most successful guild marshal, these are the top obstacles that will destroy and lead a league to total destruction. My next article will explain with real examples from our game Stormfall Age of War, of when a budding and major league have failed or will fail. Let us see why your league will fail. 

1.Absence of Trust




I like the fourth definition much better a person on whom or thing on which one relies. However easier it might be, in fact, it is very convenient to sometimes forget that there is someone alive and living behind the screen the truth is there is/ once was a living breathing creature called a human being behind every cattle on the map. A human being has diverse and sometimes scarywide biology and psychology. When you put in the fact that there are up to 160 players in a league, it can be very frustrating for a marshal to deal with such a personal issue as trust.  

Trust is a fundamental part of what makes people work well together as a league. To achieve these trust leaders often fail and even goes to the extent of coverting to admit their own mistakes. When the leadership doesn't trust players they everything to protect their league from whatever threat they suspect the person whom they don't trust will pose in the future. Without trust they make subtle and harsh demands from their players, they cling to Intel and don't share it with players in their league, this intel may be crucial like how to play BG and which cattle to avoid when playing to as dynamic as when the leader is planning and attack. 

Players, on the other hand, motivated by greed, and in reaction to mistrust from their marshals and playmates hold grudges against fellow playmates and marshals. They manifest these feelings by holding fierce debates about everything league related, start complaining that the league is not developing too fast, or is doing so too slow. Then things start going over the hill when players start to question the leadership about certain decisions. Two things might happen the league will disband or large efflux of player will happen, in a very short time( 0-2 mon).


2. Fear of Conflict

These too, unfortunately, is a game and league killer. Conflicts make stormfall world go round, like money to an economist, or genetic information to a biologist, make the world go round. Without constant conflict, your league will die a slow painful death that you will not realise until it's too late. Without downgrading fortresses raiding active players,  engaging in league challenges, wars buying 5 FB's now and again and bombing random siege you will never have fun, and when you stop having fun you become grumpy, and its back to 1. Then after a fantastic update, you quit. 

To sum it up, When a team has an absence of trust, they become fearful of producing any sort of conflict. Conflict is not always a bad thing; it is normal in most relationships and organisations and is a healthy part of an engaged team environment. It opens up the channels of communication and gets members passionate about what they believe to be important objectives of their league. These in turn drive players to come online and play. 


3. Lack of Commitment

These is like protein synthesis, once a part of DNA is initiated for transcription,  further copies are further activated downhill, in reaction to the action of those synthesised proteins. The lack of conflicts in a league will have a reaction. Is these simple, when there are no conflict, why would I bother to login on a timely basis, or even during a beacon massacre, why would I bother to raid, or do BG, and after more similar question we arrive at a point when we ask ourself whether we are part of these very league or want to be part of it. Players start questioning their roles in the league and the benefits that come with it. Asking questions like, why should I feel like doing X for these league I am not part of?
Once a team is resigned to avoiding conflict, the decisions they make permeate into a behaviour that lacks any sort of commitment to the league goals and eventually the game itself. 

4. Avoidance of Accountability

Once your players are not committed to both the league and the goals of the league, it is likely they will ever feel the need to be responsible for any aspect of the league goals, and objects. They will stop caring about their responsibilities in the league. The league will lose a beacon with the players online, and they will do nothing. A neophyte will ask a question in league chat and the captain will not reply, even when online. These are all due to lack of trust within the league. Trust invoke commitment in players which makes them accountable.
A league member that is not committed to the league goals will not feel accountable to any aspect of the league. Why would he bother to?There is no commitment simply because the was never trust, any action( like PvP) and so any allegiance and loyalty. 

A league with responsible players will demonstrate accountability. and when in action they are truly a sight to behold. They jell with extreme efficiency, communicate clearly, and see the success of the entire league as it is their own personal responsibility. 


5.Inattention to Results

Results or goals are the most important aspect of a league. I have been in many leagues, and I tell you a league dies at the day it is made and is buried at the day its goals were put in place. A league of players that are not committed to what the league does is sure to fail. Their individual poor performances lead to consistent chats fights and personal attack against each other (if they bother at all to chat as they have nothing to do) and factions forming inside the league. Factions manifest themselves in many ways,  one is inclusive sub-factions: A league within a league, typically observed when a group of players come to chat at the same time, chat only to each other, send resources only to each other, and reinforce only each other. These lead to efflux of players then the league dies. 

''know your enemy and know yourself, and in 100 battles you will never be in peril, understanding your opponent is crucial to victory'' art of war, Sun Tzu

How do you solve these problems in your league?

Trust problems, conflicts creation and resolutions, lack of commitments, avoidance of accountability, inattention to results Ect.

Gedleyihlekisa: Oracle the postremogeniture
UTC +2:00
Griffen
27 May, 2017, 11:05 PM UTC

Oracle said:


According to one of the most, if ever succesfull guild/marshal 

It's just pure genius. Add words together to form nonsensical sentences, or in this case one that has the complete opposite meaning your going for. Knowing who it probably came from I would definitely stick with the "if ever" bit though.

 
To achieve these trust leaders often fail and even covert admitting to their own mistakes

Covertly admitting to mistakes. Those words have no meaning when added together.


 
I like the fourth definition much better

Particularly good one as there are only 3 in the picture......


 
These is like DNA, once a part initiated for trascription, further copies are activated downhill.

Back to pure gibberish.


 
and I tell you a league dies at the day it was made, and is buried at the day its goals where put in place

That is even in bold. Who highlights in bold the most meaningless part of their post.


Was this done in google translate or something? Either that or one of those clever random paragraph generators. 

It's not a serious contribution though right. It can't be surely. Totally demented ramblings.

UTC +0:00
BiohazarD
Moderator
27 May, 2017, 11:19 PM UTC

Oracle said:



''know your enemy and know yourself, and in 100 battles you will never be in peril, understanding your opponent is crucial to victory'' art of war, Sun Tzu


If you're going to quote SunTzu please get it right. 

The actual quote is: "If you know the enemy and know yourself you need not fear the results of a hundred battles."

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djmoody
27 May, 2017, 11:29 PM UTC

I can't find words.

Everyone has a right to an opinion. No one has a right to their opinion being respected by other if it can't be backed up with rational and logic explanation
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IronApex Turok
28 May, 2017, 1:14 AM UTC
djmoody said:

I can't find words.

apparently neither could oracle. 
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IronApex Turok
28 May, 2017, 1:14 AM UTC
i dont think there is any question why his league only has 1 member.    
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roadstar Pitbull
28 May, 2017, 1:34 AM UTC
Can we PLEASE get a moderator or CM to approve any or all posts by this poster (poser).
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DrFondles
Moderator
28 May, 2017, 5:45 AM UTC
BiohazarD said:

Oracle said:



''know your enemy and know yourself, and in 100 battles you will never be in peril, understanding your opponent is crucial to victory'' art of war, Sun Tzu


If you're going to quote SunTzu please get it right. 

The actual quote is: "If you know the enemy and know yourself you need not fear the results of a hundred battles."

You may want to reread that  book...... If you have ever... It's a good book and very interesting if you take the time. 
Josh/Synergy S3
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Stewart_KT1
28 May, 2017, 7:16 AM UTC
Oracle said:

Snip

Cant you just go away, As in a galaxy far far away.
Noodle maker extreme
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thefray
28 May, 2017, 8:23 AM UTC

I said it before, I will say it again, this is another of plariums cruel jokes on us, moderator turncoat lol

how quickly he became a company guy for a few sapps

Not sure which is worse them screwing us with the last BG update or making Oracle a mod. I laugh every time I think of him saying the bg payout will come eventually after all his BG BS


Will they ever fix the BG?
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Oracle
28 May, 2017, 8:57 AM UTC

English is not my arterial language. I was planning on deleting the thread, and editing in the background and adding more information as I was not done with it, I planned on posting it today. But I lost the internet before I could delete it, and work on it, from now on I will work on word

But thank you for showing some of the eye-hurting-grammatical-howlers. I fixed some of them. Should you see them please notify me by PM, and I will fix them. 


Gedleyihlekisa: Oracle the postremogeniture
UTC +2:00
Oracle
28 May, 2017, 9:02 AM UTC

Stewart_KT1 said:


Oracle said:


Snip

Cant you just go away, As in a galaxy far far away.

LoL, I can't afford the trip.

Gedleyihlekisa: Oracle the postremogeniture
UTC +2:00
Oracle
28 May, 2017, 9:09 AM UTC

IronApex Turok said:


i dont think there is any question why his league only has 1 member.    

I had the inactives kicked out. All active players went off to good leagues, a total of 10 players. Few went into former leagues I was once part of, like Unforgiven, the majority went to native french/german/dutch leagues. 

I have to disband the league to protect them from KT family, and a KoK captain. But I am planning on opening the doors up soon.

I have also started a league in server 2, but I am still working on most part of it. 

Gedleyihlekisa: Oracle the postremogeniture
UTC +2:00
Oracle
28 May, 2017, 9:25 AM UTC

BiohazarD said:


Oracle said:



''know your enemy and know yourself, and in 100 battles you will never be in peril, understanding your opponent is crucial to victory'' art of war, Sun Tzu


If you're going to quote SunTzu please get it right. 

The actual quote is: "If you know the enemy and know yourself you need not fear the results of a hundred battles."

Is that the English version. I could have made mistakes, and the book was written in a sophisticated language so its open to many translations.  I am still a beginner in Mandarin, A library in town have photos of the real book I hope to read it soon when I polish my Chinese and see which version out of the thousands available is correct, by reading the actual book myself.


Are you saying every single book translated from the original Sun Tzu work are all the same?  these are just a few books I can find at google 

http://prntscr.com/fd01mphttp://prntscr.com/fd01sw

some translations I found of the same line


Gedleyihlekisa: Oracle the postremogeniture
UTC +2:00
Gadheras
28 May, 2017, 9:59 AM UTC

This work for any guild, league, corp, whatever in any mmo really that want to reach higher, stretch and little further and get up there.



1) The success of any league, guild, whatever in any game, is to make everyone work towards the same goals. 

- If someone is not pulling in the right direction, you remove them as you would with cancer. If you let them stay, cancer spread and that is bad!


2) You follow leadership words as law. Leadership work better as dictatorate than a democracy. If you can't accept that fact, you don't belong and should settle for the more average social clubs. You obey and follow orders, there is no room for worry about trust. If things goes bad, things goes bad. You pick yourself up and carry on. If you feel things bad, you find some other place to settle, that simple. 


3) No one else outside your own league/guild, clicque matters. What you do to them, what you can achieve climb over their dead cold bodies. If you use under handed tactics such as spying whatever.. Doesn't matter. "I don't care about your game, your enjoyment, I play the game for my own reason, my fun is your suffering"....


A league is just as dysfunctional as it allow itself to be. 

UTC +2:00
Oracle
28 May, 2017, 10:16 AM UTC

Griffen said:

It's just pure genius. Add words together to form nonsensical sentences, or in this case one that has the complete opposite meaning your going for. Knowing who it probably came from I would definitely stick with the "if ever" bit though.

It doesn't come from who you think it comes from. It's a pity you are using a facade when making such statements. But however thanks for your help. 

I have/will personally ask them to reply to those questions I have placed in the thread, these will help budding leagues a lot, and I know they will offer a great deal of help. 
Gedleyihlekisa: Oracle the postremogeniture
UTC +2:00
Oracle
28 May, 2017, 10:23 AM UTC

Gadheras said:



This work for any guild, league, corp, whatever in any mmo really that want to reach higher, stretch and little further and get up there.



1) The success of any league, guild, whatever in any game, is to make everyone work towards the same goals. 

- If someone is not pulling in the right direction, you remove them as you would with cancer. If you let them stay, cancer spread and that is bad!


2) You follow leadership words as law. Leadership work better as dictatorate than a democracy. If you can't accept that fact, you don't belong and should settle for the more average social clubs. You obey and follow orders, there is no room for worry about trust. If things goes bad, things goes bad. You pick yourself up and carry on. If you feel things bad, you find some other place to settle, that simple. 


3) No one else outside your own league/guild, clicque matters. What you do to them, what you can achieve climb over their dead cold bodies. If you use under handed tactics such as spying whatever.. Doesn't matter. "I don't care about your game, your enjoyment, I play the game for my own reason, my fun is your suffering"....


A league is just as dysfunctional as it allow itself to be. 

These is very true. 

Those are good words of advice my Lord, and they will be treasured. Thank you alot, you did Darkshine a lot of help that you can imagine by offering your time to offer help. 

But why, do you think a dictorate learderhip works best, even better than democracy?

I find democracy to work better if the league is tight knit, like the Unforgiven Emperors was like during Shins reign, Or Drunkendragons was like during its glory as a number 1 league in Server2. When leardership start controlling things without consulting ALL players in the league. problem will arise, and players will leave. 

Gedleyihlekisa: Oracle the postremogeniture
UTC +2:00
Gadheras
28 May, 2017, 11:34 AM UTC

Oracle said:


Gadheras said:



This work for any guild, league, corp, whatever in any mmo really that want to reach higher, stretch and little further and get up there.



1) The success of any league, guild, whatever in any game, is to make everyone work towards the same goals. 

- If someone is not pulling in the right direction, you remove them as you would with cancer. If you let them stay, cancer spread and that is bad!


2) You follow leadership words as law. Leadership work better as dictatorate than a democracy. If you can't accept that fact, you don't belong and should settle for the more average social clubs. You obey and follow orders, there is no room for worry about trust. If things goes bad, things goes bad. You pick yourself up and carry on. If you feel things bad, you find some other place to settle, that simple. 


3) No one else outside your own league/guild, clicque matters. What you do to them, what you can achieve climb over their dead cold bodies. If you use under handed tactics such as spying whatever.. Doesn't matter. "I don't care about your game, your enjoyment, I play the game for my own reason, my fun is your suffering"....


A league is just as dysfunctional as it allow itself to be. 

These is very true. 

Those are good words of advice my Lord, and they will be treasured. Thank you alot, you did Darkshine a lot of help that you can imagine by offering your time to offer help. 

But why, do you think a dictorate learderhip works best, even better than democracy?

I find democracy to work better if the league is tight knit, like the Unforgiven Emperors was like during Shins reign, Or Drunkendragons was like during its glory as a number 1 league in Server2. When leardership start controlling things without consulting ALL players in the league. problem will arise, and players will leave. 

Lets say you got 200 members, if you want to achieve something, you don't have room nor time to discuss every fkn thing with everyone or try please everyone. True you can't lead a league/guild by yourself, but your captains is tools for you to use. If they dont perform acordingly to the abilities needed, they can be replaced. Of course you will do mistakes and shit happens, but you pick yourself up from that.


Members is like cannon fooder. And these again want to be part of the winning side. If you win far more than you lose, you have success already. Do you want to be in a league that is being abused by everyone and attacked all the time, or do you want to be the feared raider that wreck havoc? It all come down to a price.


If you worried about have to please people, or someones feelings get hurt, or you step on some toes to achieve goals, then its not you that at fault. Its the other players that is in the wrong place for them. 


All this being said. Being on top is a lonely place. You play a great role as a content creator for your league/guild, and its easy to get burnt out over time. This is why a success of a guild a lot of the time fall and rise with the people on top. You can have a great guild, and then the leader have to step down, get burnt out, quit etc. The next person that step up, might not even have a box to stand on to reach up to the level of the person he/she replace and everything goes down the toilet fast. 
UTC +2:00
Solidarius
28 May, 2017, 5:10 PM UTC

Everything has a beginning, middle and eventually an end.


I like Oracles post it does have some valid points like trust is important to a league especially to the captains/higher members working together


to put my opinion on the matter, I personally believe that hate/fear is stronger than love because as most of us know or will find out... love does not last so for that reason I think its probably better to "rule" a league with an "iron fist" than be all nice and warm and cute.


I have been in one league since I started playing this game(roughly 1year 6months ago) and I will continue to be in that league.

 

My reason for staying in one league is because I have a lot of respect for my league marshal plus I have never had any issue with anyone in the league,


to put it in perspective at one point I quit the game for months and came back and as a casual mostly "free 2 play" player I felt and still do feel discouraged because I do not have the funds to spend money on the game... I shared this to my league marshal a long time ago and she told me "You never have to spend money or anything like that to be in this league" that made me want to stay in the league and do my best.


I think the most important thing for a league to be successful is activity, it does not matter if there is lack of trust or goals if the players in the league are not "playing" or login on. 

Even the best league marshals cant control "inactivity" because we all have real life matters/problems ect that sometimes cause us to be "inactive" 

UTC +5:00
Jezebel
28 May, 2017, 9:03 PM UTC

Solidarius said:


to put it in perspective at one point I quit the game for months and came back and as a casual mostly "free 2 play" player I felt and still do feel discouraged because I do not have the funds to spend money on the game... I shared this to my league marshal a long time ago and she told me "You never have to spend money or anything like that to be in this league" that made me want to stay in the league and do my best.


I think the most important thing for a league to be successful is activity, it does not matter if there is lack of trust or goals if the players in the league are not "playing" or login on. 

Even the best league marshals cant control "inactivity" because we all have real life matters/problems ect that sometimes cause us to be "inactive" 

Very true there is no need to spend money on the game to play - I tell people that all the time and actually discourage it if I can or tell them how to spend wisely on the game


Activity is the most important aspect you are totally correct - and yes we cannot control game time of players real life has to come first which I also encourage - I have decided daily logging is not all that important as long as I see my members logging once or twice a week and if someone is going to be away for an extended period they usually tell me - it is a game after all and yes we all have lives to live 


Oracle sorry to say but your whole post is a bunch of drivel to me - I wasn't going to comment on this post at all but Solidarius made some very valid points and I felt compelled to agree with him.
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