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BG, Bare assertion Fallacy

80 Replies
djmoody
14 March, 2017, 8:58 PM UTC

Oracle said:


7. We don't know anything about BG, true

I suggest you keep a log of resource in and out of BG's. Encourage your league to do the same.

Then you will move from knowing nothing about BG's to knowing something about BG's. 

If you are clever and smart you will be able to start crafting some theories from the info you collect. You then test your theories. If you get positive results from your tests, you learned something. Eventually you might become a BG master as those that have done these things before you have come to be.

Because Plarium has successively messed with BG's over many updates it has unfortunately got A LOT more difficult to learn the lessons. But it's not impossible.


And yes there is a current BG trick that can deliver 30-50m free troop power. You can write silly posts based on your zero degree of knowledge saying there aren't but it won't change the fact there is.

KoK has survived as one of the best leagues, in a game of uber coining, for 3.5yrs, without uber coiners of our own solely due to mastery of the game mechanics in areas like this. That should be all the evidence you need.

I also posted a screenshot of my off/def increase when I tricked my account for 80m free power under the old trick - so there is evidence somewhere on the forums also.

Everyone has a right to an opinion. No one has a right to their opinion being respected by other if it can't be backed up with rational and logic explanation
UTC +0:00
BiohazarD
Moderator
15 March, 2017, 2:55 AM UTC
djmoody said:

Oracle said:


7. We don't know anything about BG, true

I suggest you keep a log of resource in and out of BG's. Encourage your league to do the same.

Then you will move from knowing nothing about BG's to knowing something about BG's. 

If you are clever and smart you will be able to start crafting some theories from the info you collect. You then test your theories. If you get positive results from your tests, you learned something. Eventually you might become a BG master as those that have done these things before you have come to be.

Because Plarium has successively messed with BG's over many updates it has unfortunately got A LOT more difficult to learn the lessons. But it's not impossible.


And yes there is a current BG trick that can deliver 30-50m free troop power. You can write silly posts based on your zero degree of knowledge saying there aren't but it won't change the fact there is.

KoK has survived as one of the best leagues, in a game of uber coining, for 3.5yrs, without uber coiners of our own solely due to mastery of the game mechanics in areas like this. That should be all the evidence you need.

I also posted a screenshot of my off/def increase when I tricked my account for 80m free power under the old trick - so there is evidence somewhere on the forums also.

Yep, it's always fun seeing people come up with complex theories about how BGs work without ever bothering to actually test them or keep track of their losses and gains. 
UTC +0:00
Solidarius
15 March, 2017, 4:55 AM UTC

djmoody said:


Oracle said:


7. We don't know anything about BG, true

I suggest you keep a log of resource in and out of BG's. Encourage your league to do the same.

Then you will move from knowing nothing about BG's to knowing something about BG's. 

If you are clever and smart you will be able to start crafting some theories from the info you collect. You then test your theories. If you get positive results from your tests, you learned something. Eventually you might become a BG master as those that have done these things before you have come to be.

Because Plarium has successively messed with BG's over many updates it has unfortunately got A LOT more difficult to learn the lessons. But it's not impossible.


And yes there is a current BG trick that can deliver 30-50m free troop power. You can write silly posts based on your zero degree of knowledge saying there aren't but it won't change the fact there is.

KoK has survived as one of the best leagues, in a game of uber coining, for 3.5yrs, without uber coiners of our own solely due to mastery of the game mechanics in areas like this. That should be all the evidence you need.

I also posted a screenshot of my off/def increase when I tricked my account for 80m free power under the old trick - so there is evidence somewhere on the forums also.

Almost all the information I have read and learned by experience about BG's says to me that there is a "TAX" when troops are sent to BG's meaning in the end you lose more than you gain...


Can you please enlighten us about this so called "trick" that lands 30-50m free troop power?


The only people with 30-50million troop power are "Coiners"... I sincerely doubt that anyone who is 100% free-2-play or even casuals like myself who spends $10-20 every 6months have anywhere close to 10m let alone 30m.


To put it in perspective... if I calculate all my losses since I started to play this game, I would have roughly 10-20million total troop power at best.
UTC +5:00
Oracle
15 March, 2017, 8:00 AM UTC

djmoody said:


Oracle said:


7. We don't know anything about BG, true


And yes there is a current BG trick that can deliver 30-50m free troop power. You can write silly posts based on your zero degree of knowledge saying there aren't but it won't change the fact there is.

KoK has survived as one of the best leagues, in a game of uber coining, for 3.5yrs, without uber coiners of our own solely due to mastery of the game mechanics in areas like this. That should be all the evidence you need.

I also posted a screenshot of my off/def increase when I tricked my account for 80m free power under the old trick - so there is evidence somewhere on the forums also



Its not a trick per say, As far as i heard it, just a rouse. I wonder why you thought It will work 
Gedleyihlekisa: Oracle the postremogeniture
UTC +2:00
djmoody
15 March, 2017, 8:28 AM UTC

Oracle said:



Its not a trick per say, As far as i heard it, just a rouse. I wonder why you thought It will work 

Don't pretend you have any idea what it is or how it works - you don't. You started a thread that said no one knows anything remember.

And I think it works cause I have used it 25-30 times (once for me and then helping league mates and allies). It's not a theory or an idea it's a thing :)

Unfortunately you have to get to a certain size to run the trick (well to run it effectively), which limits the number of people that have used it.

And you know what really puts the icing on the cake. The BG mechanic that makes it possible - Plarium swear blind it doesn't exist - cause BG's are "working as intended" which losely translated means Plarium don't have a clue anymore how they work. People that understood the code have long since left the company I suspect.



Everyone has a right to an opinion. No one has a right to their opinion being respected by other if it can't be backed up with rational and logic explanation
UTC +0:00
Oracle
15 March, 2017, 9:06 AM UTC

djmoody said:


Oracle said:



Its not a trick per say, As far as i heard it, just a rouse. I wonder why you thought It will work 

Don't pretend you have any idea what it is or how it works - you don't. You started a thread that said no one knows anything remember.

And I think it works cause I have used it 25-30 times (once for me and then helping league mates and allies). It's not a theory or an idea it's a thing :)

Unfortunately you have to get to a certain size to run the trick (well to run it effectively), which limits the number of people that have used it.

And you know what really puts the icing on the cake. The BG mechanic that makes it possible - Plarium swear blind it doesn't exist - cause BG's are "working as intended" which losely translated means Plarium don't have a clue anymore how they work. People that understood the code have long since left the company I suspect.


DJ these is not a threat about you or your league, and a BG trick that everybody knows about and then you pretend otherwise so that you can just fancy, and brag people out. 


Its not a BG are not working threat, its a BG alternative theory Bg, for those who feels like the current BG theory are not working for them, or are not conclusive enough to guarantee a 100% win. 


So if you have any other, ''trick'' I don't wanna hear about it, especially from KoK, as these BG stuff goings wrong is partly their faults.

Example 

 We know that  

 Bg power from level 1-30 is a vision of 

Tn=5(BG level)^2+15(BG level) + X

but X is not static, it change from 70 to over 1000 from BG 1 to 30. these proof that the formula is either wrong( as in not arithmetic) or not properly found out.  

Stop bragging that you know BG, and have Some ''secrets'' or some ''fancy'' BG ''masters'' in your league. your bragging is not helping anyone its just plain confusing people. If you have something to say, rather say it, or if its your league ''secret'' which everyone knows about, then keep quit about it. But if you want to debate these topic then please feel free to do so, and in the process help many people. maybe debunk my theories. But please don't brag. 


Gedleyihlekisa: Oracle the postremogeniture
UTC +2:00
Solidarius
15 March, 2017, 6:06 PM UTC

djmoody said:


Oracle said:



Its not a trick per say, As far as i heard it, just a rouse. I wonder why you thought It will work 

Don't pretend you have any idea what it is or how it works - you don't. You started a thread that said no one knows anything remember.

And I think it works cause I have used it 25-30 times (once for me and then helping league mates and allies). It's not a theory or an idea it's a thing :)

Unfortunately you have to get to a certain size to run the trick (well to run it effectively), which limits the number of people that have used it.

And you know what really puts the icing on the cake. The BG mechanic that makes it possible - Plarium swear blind it doesn't exist - cause BG's are "working as intended" which losely translated means Plarium don't have a clue anymore how they work. People that understood the code have long since left the company I suspect.


so I have a few questions...


What is the certain size needed to run the "trick"?


Furthermore...are there any sapphires required to run the "trick"?


no disrespect djmoody but you can't say theres a "trick" to get massive amounts of troop power and leave it a mystery and leave people guessing and wondering....


If you can't provide more information then I call BS and think your making up shit just to hype up BG's

In my opinion the only real value in BG's is nothing more than a way to get lower tier troops aka pikeman/pals/archers/knights/golems into necros/dragons/ect ect.... 

yes you do farm mooncoins and equipment in doing BG's but it is always at a cost of LOSING troop power, not gaining to my knowledge

UTC +5:00
Gadheras
15 March, 2017, 6:31 PM UTC
Solidarius said:

djmoody said:


Oracle said:



Its not a trick per say, As far as i heard it, just a rouse. I wonder why you thought It will work 

Don't pretend you have any idea what it is or how it works - you don't. You started a thread that said no one knows anything remember.

And I think it works cause I have used it 25-30 times (once for me and then helping league mates and allies). It's not a theory or an idea it's a thing :)

Unfortunately you have to get to a certain size to run the trick (well to run it effectively), which limits the number of people that have used it.

And you know what really puts the icing on the cake. The BG mechanic that makes it possible - Plarium swear blind it doesn't exist - cause BG's are "working as intended" which losely translated means Plarium don't have a clue anymore how they work. People that understood the code have long since left the company I suspect.


so I have a few questions...


What is the certain size needed to run the "trick"?


Furthermore...are there any sapphires required to run the "trick"?


no disrespect djmoody but you can't say theres a "trick" to get massive amounts of troop power and leave it a mystery and leave people guessing and wondering....


If you can't provide more information then I call BS and think your making up shit just to hype up BG's

In my opinion the only real value in BG's is nothing more than a way to get lower tier troops aka pikeman/pals/archers/knights/golems into necros/dragons/ect ect.... 

yes you do farm mooncoins and equipment in doing BG's but it is always at a cost of LOSING troop power, not gaining to my knowledge

He can, because if the trick work so his league and members of can obtain a lot of units, others can't, it give them a edge....If everyone know how to do whatever, there wont be any edge to have anylonger. And lets face it him and they play this game for their enjoyment, not yours.
UTC +2:00
Solidarius
15 March, 2017, 7:38 PM UTC

I enjoy the game just fine... I just don't want people reading this post thinking there is a "magical" way to do BG's and earn 30-50million FREE troop power and get "tricked" ( no pun intended) into putting all their efforts and receiving no rewards and losing all their troops.



If you have proof that a "trick" exists to receiving "FREE" troop power then show me, don't give me bullshit about "I can't tell you because then everyone will know the secret and I wont have an advantage anymore"


if that is the case....why bring it up in the first place?


btw "they" aka "coiners" don't play this game for enjoyment they play this game because of addiction and money spent.

UTC +5:00
brunsonthomas
Moderator
15 March, 2017, 7:43 PM UTC
This is a Free game. Everything in it is useless outside the game except the friends you make in it. The money you spend on things in the game make it easier to play but cannot leave the game. Free 30 to 50 million strength I am afraid is a story. At the very least to achieve such an end you would need over 100 million force to start with.
UTC +5:00
Solidarius
15 March, 2017, 7:58 PM UTC

brunsonthomas said:


This is a Free game. Everything in it is useless outside the game except the friends you make in it. The money you spend on things in the game make it easier to play but cannot leave the game. Free 30 to 50 million strength I am afraid is a story. At the very least to achieve such an end you would need over 100 million force to start with.

True BrunsonThomas it is a free game... but no offense your not the one who has stated "yes there is a current BG trick that can deliver 30-50m free troop power. You can write silly posts based on your zero degree of knowledge saying there aren't but it won't change the fact there is." and that  "I tricked my account for 80m free power under the old trick - so there is evidence somewhere on the forums also."


whats the point the saying that "At the very least to achieve such an end you would need over 100 million force to start with."

that's like saying it takes money to make money... noone cares about that I want to know how to make money without having it in the first place.

If I had 100million troop power TRUST me, I would not be worried about "FREE" stuff because my credit card can handle the rest.


So I ask again is there a way to use BG's to make 30-50million "Free" troop power, or are u guys just busting peoples nutz?


p.s. Im just curious is all, please dont take offense all you "coiners" we need you :D <>

UTC +5:00
djmoody
15 March, 2017, 10:29 PM UTC

Solidarius said:


I enjoy the game just fine... I just don't want people reading this post thinking there is a "magical" way to do BG's and earn 30-50million FREE troop power and get "tricked" ( no pun intended) into putting all their efforts and receiving no rewards and losing all their troops.



If you have proof that a "trick" exists to receiving "FREE" troop power then show me, don't give me bullshit about "I can't tell you because then everyone will know the secret and I wont have an advantage anymore"


if that is the case....why bring it up in the first place?


btw "they" aka "coiners" don't play this game for enjoyment they play this game because of addiction and money spent.

I often post warnings on the forum saying that doing BG's normally as intended is loss making. The BG's are designed to suck you dry and that is when they aren't glitching out and simply dropping hundreds of millions of resources due to bugs.

I would strongly recommend NOT doing BG's unless you are using a free troop trick.

Just knowing there is a trick should be a huge clue and motivation for those with the energy and brains to experiment. There is a huge difference between trying something with no idea whether it's possible to succeed (you will eventually give up) and knowing that something is possible.

I also do drop many hints and tips in people's BG threads. And when people post stuff that is simply wrong, I will put those right as there is nothing that will make it even more difficult to work out BG's than a mass of incorrect info and urban myths.

What I won't do, is simply come of the forums and write a guide.

That would invalidate future players from applying their own skill and intelligence to work up a competitive advantage. That would be the opposite of what a strategy game should be about. It's also been a huge counter to coining, that balance is gone if it all becomes common knowledge.



Everyone has a right to an opinion. No one has a right to their opinion being respected by other if it can't be backed up with rational and logic explanation
UTC +0:00
djmoody
15 March, 2017, 10:34 PM UTC

Oracle said:


DJ these is not a threat about you or your league, and a BG trick that everybody knows about and then you pretend otherwise so that you can just fancy, and brag people out.

And that isn't what happened in the thread. 

You tried to post like you knew something about BG's when in actuality you are clueless.

You tried to make out that no one knows anything about BGs. That is simply not true. 

Your post is dangerous as it potentially confuses the players even more.

As you will know I quite often debunk incorrect information posted about BG's. In this case I simply came into your thread to show that everything you wrote was utterly incorrect and false. 

So yes I do belong in this thread and will be involve myself in any future thread where misinformation is passed out (whether intentionally or unintentionally).

Everyone has a right to an opinion. No one has a right to their opinion being respected by other if it can't be backed up with rational and logic explanation
UTC +0:00
Solidarius
15 March, 2017, 10:47 PM UTC

Thank you for the reply DJMoody!

I will take your initial advice and won't do BG's other than the reasons that I have stated previous.

I don't believe this "Free"  troop power "trick" exists and I am not one to look for a needle in a haystack





Edit: I deleted some stuff, before I sounded like a child who is mad about bg's/coiners and that was not my intention XD

<3>




UTC +5:00
BiohazarD
Moderator
16 March, 2017, 6:56 AM UTC
Solidarius said:

Thank you for the reply DJMoody!

I will take your initial advice and won't do BG's other than the reasons that I have stated previous.

I don't believe this "Free"  troop power "trick" exists and I am not one to look for a needle in a haystack





Edit: I deleted some stuff, before I sounded like a child who is mad about bg's/coiners and that was not my intention XD

<3>




The choice is yours.  Stormfall rewards players who are willing to put in the effort of learning how the systems work, but for those who don't have the time/energy to systematically test the bg system they can still use bgs to get rid of junk troops and win hero items. 
UTC +0:00
BiohazarD
Moderator
16 March, 2017, 6:58 AM UTC
Oracle said:

djmoody said:


Oracle said:



Its not a trick per say, As far as i heard it, just a rouse. I wonder why you thought It will work 

Don't pretend you have any idea what it is or how it works - you don't. You started a thread that said no one knows anything remember.

And I think it works cause I have used it 25-30 times (once for me and then helping league mates and allies). It's not a theory or an idea it's a thing :)

Unfortunately you have to get to a certain size to run the trick (well to run it effectively), which limits the number of people that have used it.

And you know what really puts the icing on the cake. The BG mechanic that makes it possible - Plarium swear blind it doesn't exist - cause BG's are "working as intended" which losely translated means Plarium don't have a clue anymore how they work. People that understood the code have long since left the company I suspect.


DJ these is not a threat about you or your league, and a BG trick that everybody knows about and then you pretend otherwise so that you can just fancy, and brag people out. 


Its not a BG are not working threat, its a BG alternative theory Bg, for those who feels like the current BG theory are not working for them, or are not conclusive enough to guarantee a 100% win. 


So if you have any other, ''trick'' I don't wanna hear about it, especially from KoK, as these BG stuff goings wrong is partly their faults.

Example 

 We know that  

 Bg power from level 1-30 is a vision of 

Tn=5(BG level)^2+15(BG level) + X

but X is not static, it change from 70 to over 1000 from BG 1 to 30. these proof that the formula is either wrong( as in not arithmetic) or not properly found out.  

Stop bragging that you know BG, and have Some ''secrets'' or some ''fancy'' BG ''masters'' in your league. your bragging is not helping anyone its just plain confusing people. If you have something to say, rather say it, or if its your league ''secret'' which everyone knows about, then keep quit about it. But if you want to debate these topic then please feel free to do so, and in the process help many people. maybe debunk my theories. But please don't brag. 


What is your theory?  From what I understood, you just said that nobody knows anything about the bgs and people should just hit them randomly and hope they get lucky. 
UTC +0:00
Oracle
16 March, 2017, 8:49 AM UTC

DJ these is not a threat about you or your league, and a BG trick that everybody knows about and then you pretend otherwise so that you can just fancy, and brag people out.

Dj Moody said 

You tried to post like you knew something about BG's when in actuality you are clueless.
You tried to make out that no one knows anything about BGs. That is simply not true. 

Anyone who have spend 30 min chatting with me knows, that I will in that 30 min ask more than 3 times ''how do you BG'', i have letters from more than 25 friendly players in the BG ranking, and all of them gave me advice with regards to BG, one of which i have posted here not long ago. So yes I am clueless, like those 25 players, whom admitted to me the are clueless too. The only person who is saying he has a clue about BG are members of the KoK, who have so far done nothing but troll these post with, that is a lie, that is not a true,, and have not in anyway tried to justify their claims. whether that is being ''helpful'' I can't be the judge. 

Dj Moody said 

Your post is dangerous as it potentially confuses the players even more.

I totally agree with you, your post are dangerous. In any debate, opinions are debunked with facts, as so far you have not done so, you only posted a bomb that would not be useful to anyone doing BG higher than 60, and having a moderate offence power, (its not 100 mil according to my sources). 

Debunk these ''confusions'' with facts. 

Jumy post a BG calculator, you simply say its incorrect, and false, why you don't tell, Even jumy BG troop counts and Lord Mark advice, you just said they are not true. You never said why.

In fact I have never heard any advice from you in regards with BG, other than ''correct'', ''not true'' comments. 

Dj Moody said 

As you will know I quite often debunk incorrect information posted about BG's. In this case I simply came into your thread to show that everything you wrote was utterly incorrect and false. 

So yes I do belong in this thread and will be involve myself in any future thread where misinformation is passed out (whether intentionally or unintentionally).

I have never seen any proof of you debunking anything in these forum, other than you calling people out and writing assays, saying something is not true. 

I have learned that , when i said Emperors have a paypal, but it wasn't used for buying hammer, initially, but for reviving.

You just say something is not true, but never say how or why, with facts, like images, formulas or anything like that. 

Gedleyihlekisa: Oracle the postremogeniture
UTC +2:00
Oracle
16 March, 2017, 8:57 AM UTC

Solidarius said:


Thank you for the reply DJMoody!

I will take your initial advice and won't do BG's other than the reasons that I have stated previous.

I don't believe this "Free"  troop power "trick" exists and I am not one to look for a needle in a haystack





Edit: I deleted some stuff, before I sounded like a child who is mad about bg's/coiners and that was not my intention XD

<3>




The free troop sysstem is version of the old BG cheat bug, before Plarium changed BG system in a major way. Although these time its more complicated, but if you ask arround in game you might hear of it. 

I though will not advice you to use it, as like I say, its based on luck and not on proof. the troops are also not free per say, but some kind of power Vs BG scheme, BG no zero loss method and heavy banking, than only a coiner, or someone with a big wallet can achieve. 
Gedleyihlekisa: Oracle the postremogeniture
UTC +2:00
Solidarius
16 March, 2017, 10:05 AM UTC

BiohazarD said:


Solidarius said:


Thank you for the reply DJMoody!

I will take your initial advice and won't do BG's other than the reasons that I have stated previous.

I don't believe this "Free"  troop power "trick" exists and I am not one to look for a needle in a haystack





Edit: I deleted some stuff, before I sounded like a child who is mad about bg's/coiners and that was not my intention XD

<3>




The choice is yours.  Stormfall rewards players who are willing to put in the effort of learning how the systems work, but for those who don't have the time/energy to systematically test the bg system they can still use bgs to get rid of junk troops and win hero items. 

I have read and followed numerous guides on BG's, trust me I have put effort and I have learned and still am learning how the system works, plus I have my own experience regarding BG's ....


The main reason I can't systematically test the bg system is because I am not a "coiner" nor do I have enough troops to do so.

I can not afford to "buy back" my troops if something goes wrong in the process of "testing"

Geting rid of junk troops and turning them into higher level troops, gaining hero items, gaining moon coins to upgrade those items, and the skull runes + legendary units from the Saga quests is a decent gain for me, although I have to admit it is nowhere near 30-50million "Free" troop power people claim they recieve.

UTC +5:00
Solidarius
16 March, 2017, 10:08 AM UTC

Oracle said:


Solidarius said:


Thank you for the reply DJMoody!

I will take your initial advice and won't do BG's other than the reasons that I have stated previous.

I don't believe this "Free"  troop power "trick" exists and I am not one to look for a needle in a haystack





Edit: I deleted some stuff, before I sounded like a child who is mad about bg's/coiners and that was not my intention XD

<3>




The free troop sysstem is version of the old BG cheat bug, before Plarium changed BG system in a major way. Although these time its more complicated, but if you ask arround in game you might hear of it. 

I though will not advice you to use it, as like I say, its based on luck and not on proof. the troops are also not free per say, but some kind of power Vs BG scheme, BG no zero loss method and heavy banking, than only a coiner, or someone with a big wallet can achieve. 

I was playing back in the old BG system, so I know about it

I have taken several breaks from the game, this time that I came back I was introduced to the new BG system


just like everyone else I do BG's my way and thats unlikely to change till I find something better :D
UTC +5:00
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