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Lost Arts reductions are greater than 100 percent

14 Replies
Morph3470 aka James
26 February, 2017, 4:15 PM UTC

With all of the various Lost Arts reductions in the game you can get a reduction of 109%

  1. A level 22 House of Scrolls will give you a 50% reduction
  2. 40 points in the Obelisk of Power will give you a 24% reduction (2 groups of 20 points = 12% each group)
  3. The Dragon Stone will give you a 25% reduction (12% in Tier 1 and 13% in Tier 2)
  4. Hero Abilities will give you a 10% reduction (3% at level 2 and 7% at level 13)

If I did my math correctly: 50 + 24 + 25 + 10 = 109% in reduction, aka INSTANT

Does this mean that they become Instant, so long as all of the pre-requisits and resource requirements are met ?



James E Rooks Jr
UTC +6:00
Morph aka James
26 February, 2017, 4:45 PM UTC
I hope so
Jrooksjr
UTC -6:00
Knightmare
26 February, 2017, 5:02 PM UTC

nah, it means it cuts the time by a little more than 50% while activated










109% means it goes just a little over twice as fast. 100% would be 1/2.

meaning the time is doubled. ( or in this case cut in half)


Nug Life !
UTC +7:00
nobody
26 February, 2017, 5:10 PM UTC
Morph3470 aka James said:

With all of the various Lost Arts reductions in the game you can get a reduction of 109%

  1. A level 22 House of Scrolls will give you a 50% reduction
  2. 40 points in the Obelisk of Power will give you a 24% reduction (2 groups of 20 points = 12% each group)
  3. The Dragon Stone will give you a 25% reduction (12% in Tier 1 and 13% in Tier 2)
  4. Hero Abilities will give you a 10% reduction (3% at level 2 and 7% at level 13)

If I did my math correctly: 50 + 24 + 25 + 10 = 109% in reduction, aka INSTANT

Does this mean that they become Instant, so long as all of the pre-requisits and resource requirements are met ?



stormfall no longer works off of reduction, it works off of increased speed.  therefore what i think is the true function is that you will get a 109 % increase in speed, that being a reduction of 54% in time, that is if you click dragonstone every 3 hrs.
UTC +0:00
RandomDrop
26 February, 2017, 8:01 PM UTC
Are you sue the obelisk points apply to lost arts and not the obelisk discovery time? The discription lacks any mention of lost arts.
UTC +7:00
Morph3470 aka James
26 February, 2017, 8:35 PM UTC
RandomDrop said:

Are you sue the obelisk points apply to lost arts and not the obelisk discovery time? The discription lacks any mention of lost arts.
I am sure it is for the Lost Arts as it was mentioned by a Plarium staff member in another posting when someone asked about Obelisk point - they had said you get 24% reduction for the Lost Arts.
James E Rooks Jr
UTC +6:00
nobody
26 February, 2017, 8:40 PM UTC

RandomDrop said:


Are you sue the obelisk points apply to lost arts and not the obelisk discovery time? The discription lacks any mention of lost arts.

the plarium wiki states:  "Lost Art discovery time reduction", that is what it states, however we know that the reduction time was changed to increased speed which decreases the value from the original value by 50%.

so try to glean what you can from a plarium statement:  "Lost Art discovery time reduction",  maybe it refers to lost arts "increase in speed" or maybe it refers to dragonstone increased speed or obelisk increased speed.  who can ever be certain?  obby was before dragonstone, but who knows?



edit:  when i say reduces the value by 50%, i am referring to the initial statement of reduction/increase.  a 100% increase = 50% decrease, while a 100% reduction = 100 percent decrease.  however over time the value is even worse.

on a trip:

100mph = 1hr

200mph = 1/2 hr at 100% increase which = 50% reduction

300mph = 1/3 hr at 200% increase which = 66% reduction

400mph = 1/4 hr at 300% increase which = 75% reduction

so over time the change from reduction to increase is even more costly.  and yet the term "time reduction" is still being used,  and players are still getting mad when they don't get the perceived results.  words have meaning and the way you use your words create meaning.  players and alyona went round and round on this about 4 months ago.  and today i still found the same false terms being used in the plarium wiki and the op stated that they heard the term from "staff"


reduction and increase are completely different terms.  so even at a 300% speed increase, the time would only be reduced by 75%, still not instant build.

UTC +0:00
BiohazarD
Moderator
26 February, 2017, 10:53 PM UTC
johanrayne said:

RandomDrop said:


Are you sue the obelisk points apply to lost arts and not the obelisk discovery time? The discription lacks any mention of lost arts.

the plarium wiki states:  "Lost Art discovery time reduction", that is what it states, however we know that the reduction time was changed to increased speed which decreases the value from the original value by 50%.

so try to glean what you can from a plarium statement:  "Lost Art discovery time reduction",  maybe it refers to lost arts "increase in speed" or maybe it refers to dragonstone increased speed or obelisk increased speed.  who can ever be certain?  obby was before dragonstone, but who knows?



edit:  when i say reduces the value by 50%, i am referring to the initial statement of reduction/increase.  a 100% increase = 50% decrease, while a 100% reduction = 100 percent decrease.  however over time the value is even worse.

on a trip:

100mph = 1hr

200mph = 1/2 hr at 100% increase which = 50% reduction

300mph = 1/3 hr at 200% increase which = 66% reduction

400mph = 1/4 hr at 300% increase which = 75% reduction

so over time the change from reduction to increase is even more costly.  and yet the term "time reduction" is still being used,  and players are still getting mad when they don't get the perceived results.  words have meaning and the way you use your words create meaning.  players and alyona went round and round on this about 4 months ago.  and today i still found the same false terms being used in the plarium wiki and the op stated that they heard the term from "staff"


reduction and increase are completely different terms.  so even at a 300% speed increase, the time would only be reduced by 75%, still not instant build.

Yes, that is correct.
UTC +0:00
RandomDrop
27 February, 2017, 3:24 AM UTC

Morph3470 aka James said:


RandomDrop said:


Are you sue the obelisk points apply to lost arts and not the obelisk discovery time? The discription lacks any mention of lost arts.
I am sure it is for the Lost Arts as it was mentioned by a Plarium staff member in another posting when someone asked about Obelisk point - they had said you get 24% reduction for the Lost Arts.

Thank you.. This is good information and it really should be included in the obelisk group description (inside the obelisk itself).

UTC +7:00
Rosconz
28 February, 2017, 8:32 AM UTC

It also makes a difference how the reductions are applied. Morph is just adding all %ages together but more likely it would be calculated like this. 

Say you have a lost art that is going to take 1000 minutes to complete. The calculation could be:

1000 less 50% = 500

500 less 24% = 380

380 less 25% = 285

285 less 10% = 256.5 minutes

UTC +12:00
brunsonthomas
28 February, 2017, 4:45 PM UTC
Rosconz said:

It also makes a difference how the reductions are applied. Morph is just adding all %ages together but more likely it would be calculated like this. 

Say you have a lost art that is going to take 1000 minutes to complete. The calculation could be:

1000 less 50% = 500

500 less 24% = 380

380 less 25% = 285

285 less 10% = 256.5 minutes

That is a very accurate way of calculating cumulative discounts.
UTC +5:00
nobody
28 February, 2017, 7:34 PM UTC
Rosconz said:

It also makes a difference how the reductions are applied. Morph is just adding all %ages together but more likely it would be calculated like this. 

Say you have a lost art that is going to take 1000 minutes to complete. The calculation could be:

1000 less 50% = 500

500 less 24% = 380

380 less 25% = 285

285 less 10% = 256.5 minutes

that would be reduction, using accumulation, getting close to a 75% reduction at 109% bonus.  but are there any bonuses that are accumulative?  don't speed, offense, defense and all other bonuses work off of the base value?  the speed increase would be off of the base, not accumulative, right?  if there are any differences in bonuses that some are accumulative and some off of the base, that is more needed valuable information.
UTC +0:00
Alina Bright
Community Manager
1 March, 2017, 12:32 PM UTC

Thank you for sharing your calculations! Lord JOHANRAYNE is totally right. 

UTC +2:00
BiohazarD
Moderator
1 March, 2017, 4:36 PM UTC
johanrayne said:

Rosconz said:

It also makes a difference how the reductions are applied. Morph is just adding all %ages together but more likely it would be calculated like this. 

Say you have a lost art that is going to take 1000 minutes to complete. The calculation could be:

1000 less 50% = 500

500 less 24% = 380

380 less 25% = 285

285 less 10% = 256.5 minutes

that would be reduction, using accumulation, getting close to a 75% reduction at 109% bonus.  but are there any bonuses that are accumulative?  don't speed, offense, defense and all other bonuses work off of the base value?  the speed increase would be off of the base, not accumulative, right?  if there are any differences in bonuses that some are accumulative and some off of the base, that is more needed valuable information.
They all work off the base value.  But most of them aren't reductions of total time, but increases in upgrade speed. 
UTC +0:00
nobody
1 March, 2017, 5:43 PM UTC

BiohazarD said:


johanrayne said:


Rosconz said:


It also makes a difference how the reductions are applied. Morph is just adding all %ages together but more likely it would be calculated like this. 

Say you have a lost art that is going to take 1000 minutes to complete. The calculation could be:

1000 less 50% = 500

500 less 24% = 380

380 less 25% = 285

285 less 10% = 256.5 minutes

that would be reduction, using accumulation, getting close to a 75% reduction at 109% bonus.  but are there any bonuses that are accumulative?  don't speed, offense, defense and all other bonuses work off of the base value?  the speed increase would be off of the base, not accumulative, right?  if there are any differences in bonuses that some are accumulative and some off of the base, that is more needed valuable information.
They all work off the base value.  But most of them aren't reductions of total time, but increases in upgrade speed. 
are there any that are reduction?  it is my understanding that all bonuses are increase bonuses and that they work off of the base and not accumulative. this is my understanding.  the terms used need to be cleared up so that in the future players don't need to try and figure out what is the actual mechanic or to get mad at a result that is not = to the terms used.  this is the type of thing i have been harping on, and still am.
alyona stated that "plarium would be rephrasing in the wiki, dragonstone and obelisk, so that there would be a better understanding and not confusion".  this i think was about 4 months ago.
in my initial attempt to show the op that they would be getting about half of the perceived bonus, i was lazy with my math and stated 54% when it most likely is between 51% and 52%, (still being lazy).  and my statement of 50% loss in value is only specific to 100% increase and 100% reduction.  thus my general application to the entire relationship between increase and reduction was false.
a 50% increase = 33% reduction, i explained this last time through channeling stocks and other crazy stuff, and this time through travel time on a trip.
i will let a dead dog lie now.

UTC +0:00
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