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Broken BG Proof

165 Replies
djmoody
30 November, 2016, 2:34 AM UTC

Below is a link to a BG tracker that records the entire history of one players BG experience.

I am posting it with their permission to show absolute proof of the current BG issues.

http://legendsofstormfall.com/Battleground_Loader.html


Some starter facts:


- The players has done 570 BG's.

- His highest lvl BG is 92.

- A lvl 92 has approx an 86m resource banking value.

- He currently has just under 150m resource trapped in the BG's (depending on the troops this represents 20-30m army power)

- The worst overloaded the account has been is just under 220m

- That is more than double his top level BG (going on for x3). He should have been getting automatic full payouts from any BG hit at that point.


- Until recently his experience was one of cumulative bank going back to zero quite regularly after major payouts


About the tracker (seeing as its a version of one of my spreadsheets, easy for me to explain):


- Each BG comes on 2 rows

- One row shows the Loaded resource

- One row shows the payout resource

- After each row the cumulative total is recalculated

- Sign convention is loading into the bank is positive, payouts out of the bank are negative

- So the banked resource that should drive the payout is the cumulative total on the Load line

- The cumulative total on the payout line shows you the bank after completion of the BG

- Green is a defensive BG, red an offensive BG and orange clearance of a top level

- The guys draws a line across the page at the end of the day (note he might not play the BG's for several days after the line, they don't necessarily represent consecutive days, but sometime will)

Everyone has a right to an opinion. No one has a right to their opinion being respected by other if it can't be backed up with rational and logic explanation
UTC +0:00
djmoody
30 November, 2016, 2:37 AM UTC

Now to examine the damning evidence.

You will see up to BG 441 the player's bank was resetting to zero frequently after major payouts (actually just going negative). Times were good. BG's aren't profitable but at least they aren't loss making. Mooncoins were farmed.

Even after this the BG's were mainly clearing down his bank up to BG 529, the residual/trapped bank was creeping up and got to 43m.

BUT after that, in recent weeks, it all goes to the fan.

The bank just builds and builds, at the worst point reaching 218m.

It actually only took 2 days of playing to go from nearly cleared bank to 200m in the hole (BG's 529 to 547). At lvl 92 with a max banking value of 86m you aren't supposed to be able to lose 30-35m of army power in 2 days.

During this time he is appropriately loaded to get a full payout on EVERY BG killed but they don't come. A lot of the time he is x2 over banked for the BG's and the payouts don't come.

There are days when not only do the full payouts not come but he can't even take payouts on lower level BG's (if you are x2 loaded for a BG is should automatically payout, a mechanism often used by experience players to control banks and keep the value down in times when payouts don't seem to come).

All 2 often the BG's are simply in a "no payout mode". It is clear no matter what he does he will get nothing out.

There was a good day (BG's 550 and 548) where the BG's behaved normally and he got 2 full payouts which cleared a lot of the bank. Had he any more high level BGs left probably could have got a 3rd and completely cleared the bank.

Since then the BG's have refused to payout every day tried. Not even low level payouts, which should come automatically at this level of overbanking.

He has tried 5 more days now and nothing.

He has been doing low level BG's to test whether the BG's are on a payout day.

You can see on the final day, today he got bored and just killed a load to see what would happen. Finally after loading a further 25m into BG's the lowest lvl, a 63 paid back the 25m he had loaded today.

I can tell you this guy is nearly quitting because of this. Every day disappointment. He feels cheated out of his army.

I expect a quality reply from Plarium. This is one of the best kept logs you will ever see. Not some half assed moan from a noob.

Everyone has a right to an opinion. No one has a right to their opinion being respected by other if it can't be backed up with rational and logic explanation
UTC +0:00
Alyona Kolomiitseva
Community Manager
30 November, 2016, 10:51 AM UTC

Hi! A player from the research you shared receives his rewards on BGs, right? So basically the mechanism works. If a player suspects that there is a bug or mistake, he can contact Support Team and ask them to check his BG logs to make sure the system works correctly.

Please be aware that Plarium shares no information about the BG algorithm, and the way the rewards are given to players. The actual BG mechanics may differ from your expectations, but it doesn't mean that the system is not working properly.

And as I said before, the last BG change was made in June. No changes were performed since then.
Plarium Community Manager. Please note that I will be unable to respond to your private messages, review your tickets, or check your account information. All technical issues should be directed to our Support Team at plrm.me/Support_Plarium
UTC +2:00
djmoody
30 November, 2016, 11:14 AM UTC

Alyona Kolomiitseva said:


Hi! A player from the research you shared receives his rewards on BGs, right? So basically the mechanism works. If a player suspects that there is a bug or mistake, he can contact Support Team and ask them to check his BG logs to make sure the system works correctly.

Please be aware that Plarium shares no information about the BG algorithm, and the way the rewards are given to players. The actual BG mechanics may differ from your expectations, but it doesn't mean that the system is not working properly.

And as I said before, the last BG change was made in June. No changes were performed since then.

Enraged by that response.

It took over an hour of my time to host that information and write the thread, so you finally had info from the players unequivocally proving the problem you are seeing and hearing reported by multiple people (like you asked for).

You on the other hand clearly didn't couldn't even be bothered to read wthe post or look at the log.

NO THEY AREN'T GETTING REWARDS

YES THERE IS CLEARLY A POINT SEVERAL WEEKS AGO THAT THE BG's "WENT WRONG" AND STOPPED PAYING OUT.

YES I HAVE ASKED THE PLAYER TO CONTACT SUPPORT BUT YOU SHOULD BE RUNNING BACK TO THE DEVS WITH THIS INFO TO GET IT FIXED LIKE IT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN YOUR WORLD. YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO CARE, EVEN JUST A LITTLE BIT.

Now you have said BG mechanics haven't changed since June. This log clearly shows a step change in behavior over the last couple of weeks. Clearly there is a bug then (probably introduced by a different update with unexpected consequences for BGs - not like that would be a first for this game).

No one but Plarium could fail to understand the contents of a professionally, well presented set of data and then having missed all the points completely have the arrogance to suggest only you know what is going on and we have no knowledge or understanding. Brush it under the carpet, "nothing to see here".

Try again with a response that actually cares, research and deal with the issue and come back to YOUR PAYING CUSTOMERS with something sensible.

A LOT of people will be watching this thread and want answers.

Show us some respect with the next response.

Everyone has a right to an opinion. No one has a right to their opinion being respected by other if it can't be backed up with rational and logic explanation
UTC +0:00
thefray
30 November, 2016, 5:56 PM UTC

I sent a ticket in a while ago

Response was 

My investment was out of sync with reward system

BG is tested thoroughly by QA, we exclude the possibility of any irregularities and break downs in their functioning. Thus this matter is not attributable to the categories of issues which are considered by our specialists. Go see the forums.


No help, nowhere, no way

UTC +0:00
Gadheras
30 November, 2016, 6:16 PM UTC

thefray said:


I sent a ticket in a while ago

Response was 

My investment was out of sync with reward system

BG is tested thoroughly by QA, we exclude the possibility of any irregularities and break downs in their functioning. Thus this matter is not attributable to the categories of issues which are considered by our specialists. Go see the forums.


No help, nowhere, no way

so basicaly "our shit is broken, we don't know how to fix it, go cry on the forums" :p


UTC +2:00
Techway_GrandMarshal
30 November, 2016, 6:24 PM UTC

Just wanted to say thank you to DJMoody for all the hard work and time he has spent testing the BG's and making the post on the forums about all this. showing and proving the fact.

There are a lot of us out here that understand BG's and have done a lot of testing ourselfs but to see a very detailed log stretched out over months gives us a very clear picture of whats really going on.


Shame on you plarium. you should have left the BG's alone when they were working just fine.


I wish they would show DJMoody a little more respect since he is doing a great service to us all.


Thank you.

UTC +0:00
Stewart
30 November, 2016, 9:47 PM UTC

Alonya


Im not sure you understand, There has been a big change in the pays across many leagues and many very experienced BG players.


It doesnt matter that yous have not changed the algorithm in any way, Something has gone wrong or some glitch has appeared as a result of something else.


DJ has provided a very detailed set of records that shows something happened, Im not the sharpest knife in the draw and even i can see a drastic change.


And by the way i WONT play BG since the major change in the BG months ago, SO i have nothing to gain or lose by yous looking and checking.


What yous have to lose is the game as so many people are quiting the game as one thing after another is ruining the enjoyment of the game.
Noodle maker extreme
UTC +0:00
vakonziko
30 November, 2016, 10:50 PM UTC

Whatever BG algorithm is, its

UTC +0:00
djmoody
30 November, 2016, 11:32 PM UTC

Response came from Plarium support, apparently word for word same garbage Fray was given. Ticket closed. I would post it here, it's such an insult you should all see it but it would breach the forum rules and no doubt end in me being banned and my voice quietened.

But clearly:

Info provided wasn't even looked at.

The fact it completely proves they are broken ignored.

Instead a standard copy and paste e-mail to in an attempt to cover up the issues.

The time and effort in collecting definitive proof of the problem an utter waste. Plarium don't care.

Worst developer I have ever had the misfortune to be involved with and that is saying something as the whole industry is full of sharks.



Everyone has a right to an opinion. No one has a right to their opinion being respected by other if it can't be backed up with rational and logic explanation
UTC +0:00
None
1 December, 2016, 5:19 AM UTC

No kidding, contact support, well I would love to but I haven't found any with plarium LOL


I and a few I speak with haven't seen a Mythical level 4 box in weeks, I used to see one per BG session.



Well at least we have a second confirmation that support tickets are worthless and since this is monitored closely by the QA team they can't be broke and won't be discussed.


Now that that is settled, maybe we can get something else that isn't broken fixed like the caravan return time at non friend speed even though they deliver at friend speed. or maybe the phantom reports that can't be found or cleared under the counselors but if that is too tough for the crack QA team maybe work on the phantom mails. Good thing they aren't busy fixing the non broke BG or we may never get these other bugs fixed.



Hey I have an idea, lets try and distract them from our incompetence and start another beacon massacre event. Look ashiney object of sapphires at less of a discount than normal but hurry you only have 3 hrs to buy this invincible army. So if I buy the "invincible" army if I sent them out for PvP do they all live or do they revive free like immortals????


I would hate to have to send a support ticket when an "invincible" troop I purchase dies, they might tell me it is my imagination and they are really still there and working fine there are now invisible "invincible" army.



UTC +0:00
zapelo
1 December, 2016, 7:16 AM UTC

Looking at all the data it seems to me that


1. the bank was reset to 0 at some point either by accident or on purpose (24. November update)

2. They caused a bug by updating some other reward system

UTC +0:00
Sifr
1 December, 2016, 7:40 AM UTC

Honestly, plarium can test it themselves. Give a staff player infinite units/sapphs, test ingame bg, and post the results here to show nothing's wrong.

Too much of a hassle I guess?
Fighter Sifr of Fellowship
UTC +0:00
Ryu
1 December, 2016, 8:12 AM UTC

Just staring at the data too long there are some residual values that keep repeating over longer stretches, if you allow for an error of a few million of course. So not sure it was only one update. More like the server loosing the bank value table or something.


From the payouts i would say that checking the bg mechanics will do nothing, they indeed seem to work assuming stuff happened to the bank. Date info is not available, right DJ? 


(And as careful as this log seems to be, errors in notation DO have the same effect as lost bank. I just give veracity to the data since the bg players i talk with are unhappy for quite some time, too. And have not been before.)

UTC +2:00
Alyona Kolomiitseva
Community Manager
1 December, 2016, 12:35 PM UTC

djmoody said:


Alyona Kolomiitseva said:


Hi! A player from the research you shared receives his rewards on BGs, right? So basically the mechanism works. If a player suspects that there is a bug or mistake, he can contact Support Team and ask them to check his BG logs to make sure the system works correctly.

Please be aware that Plarium shares no information about the BG algorithm, and the way the rewards are given to players. The actual BG mechanics may differ from your expectations, but it doesn't mean that the system is not working properly.

And as I said before, the last BG change was made in June. No changes were performed since then.

NO THEY AREN'T GETTING REWARDS


Aren't these the rewards? http://screencast.com/t/V6iu0Y827rqD

Plarium Community Manager. Please note that I will be unable to respond to your private messages, review your tickets, or check your account information. All technical issues should be directed to our Support Team at plrm.me/Support_Plarium
UTC +2:00
Ryu
1 December, 2016, 2:42 PM UTC

http://prntscr.com/de2gzf

UTC +2:00
None
1 December, 2016, 4:13 PM UTC

Data entry error can be a cause. Here is what I did to check that. Other than being down over 20k troops.

When killing a lvl 137 my bank was 337 million, I received 195 million payout on an avg bank value of 230 million so not a full payout, leaving what I think my bank is at 142 million (I will round the numbers at time to make this easier)

I started a new data line with ZERO bank

I will leave out the BG's it took loading and just give the payout level

level 121 loaded to 155 paid 146 mil bank 9 mil

level 81 loaded to 155 mil paid 85 mil bank 85 mil ( I did numerious BG at proper bank to lvl and no payout, only payout at 3x bank)

level 94 loaded to 241 mil paid 108 mil bank 133 mil (couple dozen BG have been done, little chance for a bank error) 

3 BG later 

level 103 loaded 165 mil paid 126 mil bank 40 mil (confirming no bank error above) couple dozen BG done again

again banked to proper levels and no payouts on 80's 90's, 100's and 115 bg

level 54 bank 225 mil paid 16.7 mil bank 208 mil ( could not get a payout on 115 when banked to 229 mil with a avg bank of 158 mil for lvl 115)

level 92 bank 236 mil paid 90 mil bank 147 mil  ( a bunch of no payouts on proper level loading again)

level 84 bank 217 mil paid 76 mil bank 141 mil

level 121 bank 296 mil paid 220 mil bank 76 mil


Remember all this happened after I reset bank to ZERO from 145 million

I had previously reset my bank from 55 million to ZERO prior to resetting my bank to zero from 145 million

So I have reset my bank down 200 million for possible user error now have 80 million trapped in bank and down over 20 k troops, while no way to prove no error and 100% accuracy in bank. I think by removing 200 million from bank and being down 20k troops (at this level no Inf/cav troops used) I can with a good degree of certainty say  numbers are close. The only way to be down 20k troops is having them trapped in the BG and of we use 12500 avg resource value times 20k troops lost (rounded down just FYI) we have 250 million about what has been trapped and reset from my bank.


UTC +0:00
IronApex Turok
1 December, 2016, 5:41 PM UTC
Alyona Kolomiitseva said:

djmoody said:


Alyona Kolomiitseva said:


Hi! A player from the research you shared receives his rewards on BGs, right? So basically the mechanism works. If a player suspects that there is a bug or mistake, he can contact Support Team and ask them to check his BG logs to make sure the system works correctly.

Please be aware that Plarium shares no information about the BG algorithm, and the way the rewards are given to players. The actual BG mechanics may differ from your expectations, but it doesn't mean that the system is not working properly.

And as I said before, the last BG change was made in June. No changes were performed since then.

NO THEY AREN'T GETTING REWARDS


Aren't these the rewards? http://screencast.com/t/V6iu0Y827rqD

a reward would imply a gain over investment.  thats no where near a return on investment. 
UTC +0:00
Stewart
1 December, 2016, 9:37 PM UTC

Enough is enough, You can only bang your head against the wall for so long.


im done.
Noodle maker extreme
UTC +0:00
djmoody
2 December, 2016, 1:54 AM UTC

Alyona Kolomiitseva said:


djmoody said:


Alyona Kolomiitseva said:


Hi! A player from the research you shared receives his rewards on BGs, right? So basically the mechanism works. If a player suspects that there is a bug or mistake, he can contact Support Team and ask them to check his BG logs to make sure the system works correctly.

Please be aware that Plarium shares no information about the BG algorithm, and the way the rewards are given to players. The actual BG mechanics may differ from your expectations, but it doesn't mean that the system is not working properly.

And as I said before, the last BG change was made in June. No changes were performed since then.

NO THEY AREN'T GETTING REWARDS


Aren't these the rewards? http://screencast.com/t/V6iu0Y827rqD


Isn't trolling again the forum rules? A mod should ban you. 

We stand corrected, the BG's are paying out a fraction of what is put into them, so everything is OK, nothing to see, move on people..... what a joke.

I am also done. You deserve everything you are about to get.

Everyone has a right to an opinion. No one has a right to their opinion being respected by other if it can't be backed up with rational and logic explanation
UTC +0:00
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