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hey dj moody

5 Replies
nobody
14 October, 2016, 7:24 PM UTC

you stated this in another thread.  i do not understand formulas the way that you do, and my thinking about it won't change that.  so could you explain further.  what you mean by;


So basically the losses stay reasonably constant no matter what you send, especially at the higher end.

You might be thinking - why does the loss go up slightly with bigger sends, it feels counter-intuative. That is because the mechanic isn't keeping your losses constant its keeping your loss and his the same (do the maths on his loss to see). As the total power in the fight increases more troops from both sides die. Your equal share of the deaths therefore slightly increases.

So you can see the results don't change much no matter what you send. I am sure this is completely as expected by Plarium because the raid mechanic (the one for castles) means that no matter how overwhelmed a new or small player is the offensive player losses exactly the same number troops as the defender.

what do you mean by the offensive player losses exactly the same number troops as the defender?

i don't know that i have attacked an active player with troops out, i probably have only attacked inactive castles with other players troops on them, whether sieged or unsieged.  i have a tendency to oversend and at times i will lose like 1 knight out of thousands against a small number of troops, but i thought that was from like a .005% chance of them getting a kill kicked in. i have never seen a strait loss or win that was even.  not as the one being attacked either.
 
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Snowgoon
14 October, 2016, 11:42 PM UTC

Sounds interesting - can you post a link to the full thread?

It is much easier to understand posts when not taken out of context



I said something similar in one of my posts and was laughed at :)


Defender has 1 million total defense

If you send 1,000,001 then you both lose 50% (500k losses to both players)

If you send 3 million then both lose 750k

If you send 9 million then both lose 900k

If you send 99 million then both lose 990k


This uses Lord Oberon's Combat Algorithm (which is impossible to reproduce precisely)

B / (A+B) = Loss Percentage


e.g. 3mill/(3mill+1mill) = 3/4 = 75% loss to defender
       1mill/(1mill+3mill) = 1/4 = 25% loss to attacker
        But both players lose the same value of units = 750k
        75% of 1 million defense = 750k losses
        25% of 3 million offense  = 750k losses

          

Sending huge armies will reduce the loss percentage but increase total losses to both players - cute way of increasing revenue from the Healer? lol

**************************************

With very weak defense it is easy to overwhelm their army and Zero Loss is quite easy, but this is because the loss percentage is rounded-down. Even if you don't get zero, your loss will be tiny (this also works on low-level battlegrounds)

Try sending ONE of every different offensive unit against a weak defense - you will lose zero unless you lose the battle.
However ... if you do lose the battle then your losses will be rounded-up and instead of zero loss you will lose 100%

This game is all about the percentages, and percentages can be very cruel


Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way - Pink Floyd - http://prnt.sc/dv923b
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nobody
15 October, 2016, 5:32 PM UTC

ok so it is the loss of power that is 1 to 1, not the units themselves.  i was thinking that it was an equal proportional loss that i think your numbers do show.  that if you have a 60/40 split with x troops but 85/15 split with 2x troops, the defense has xtra loss from being more overwhelmed, but the offense has more losses because it has twice as many troops to absorb the loss. so it actually is 1 to 1 power according to your numbers. but if the differences are extreme enough you can get zero losses but that is because one part of the equation is so small.

dj basically said the same thing you did.  your numbers helped me clarify the mechanic tho. i think.

so really we have even less control over the outcome than i thought.  it really is just a 1/1 kdr in power even when the split is not 50/50.

thank you snowgoon.
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Snowgoon
15 October, 2016, 6:51 PM UTC

johanrayne said:


ok so it is the loss of power that is 1 to 1, not the units themselves.  i was thinking that it was an equal proportional loss that i think your numbers do show.  that if you have a 60/40 split with x troops but 85/15 split with 2x troops, the defense has xtra loss from being more overwhelmed, but the offense has more losses because it has twice as many troops to absorb the loss. so it actually is 1 to 1 power according to your numbers. but if the differences are extreme enough you can get zero losses but that is because one part of the equation is so small.

dj basically said the same thing you did.  your numbers helped me clarify the mechanic tho. i think.

so really we have even less control over the outcome than i thought.  it really is just a 1/1 kdr in power even when the split is not 50/50.

thank you snowgoon.

My post was only half the story tho - I deliberately did not mention Castle Defense Bonus and the effect of level 13 Infirmary


Any well fortified castle can easily double the strength of all defending units. This means that we would only need to recall 500k from our catacombs to provide 1 million defense. Also, Griffins and Golems get much better def stats against Dragons and Wyverns

Defender's losses shown above include bonus from walls etc so his actual losses are much lower, and then he can revive 30% for free from the infirmary

Makes you wonder why players bother to attack haha
Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way - Pink Floyd - http://prnt.sc/dv923b
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nobody
15 October, 2016, 7:05 PM UTC

Snowgoon said:



My post was only half the story tho - I deliberately did not mention Castle Defense Bonus and the effect of level 13 Infirmary


Any well fortified castle can easily double the strength of all defending units. This means that we would only need to recall 500k from our catacombs to provide 1 million defense. Also, Griffins and Golems get much better def stats against Dragons and Wyverns

Defender's losses shown above include bonus from walls etc so his actual losses are much lower, and then he can revive 30% for free from the infirmary

Makes you wonder why players bother to attack haha
because they are coiners who still outpower you at least 3 to 1 and they just want pvp points.  non mega coiners don't attack.
thanks for the info

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TheBeast
15 October, 2016, 8:38 PM UTC
Interesting stuff.
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