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Recent Beacon Event

19 Replies
jims
12 October, 2016, 3:01 PM UTC

We recently endured a Beacon event, one in which no one in my league received any points what so ever (to the best of my knowledge).

It was explained to be that since no one attacked our Beacon we received no points. However that quite simply isn't true. There were a significant number of attackers...all attempting to besiege the Beacon, none were successful. Some of these attackers lost 100's of units (did they receive any points? let us hope not).

So, I'm wondering just why I should participate in those kinds of events, IF my efforts are for naught?


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brunsonthomas
12 October, 2016, 4:16 PM UTC
jims said:

We recently endured a Beacon event, one in which no one in my league received any points what so ever (to the best of my knowledge).

It was explained to be that since no one attacked our Beacon we received no points. However that quite simply isn't true. There were a significant number of attackers...all attempting to besiege the Beacon, none were successful. Some of these attackers lost 100's of units (did they receive any points? let us hope not).

So, I'm wondering just why I should participate in those kinds of events, IF my efforts are for naught?


Beacon defensive points depend on two things. How much defense each player has in the Beacon and how strong the attack is. If the siege or attack does not have enough force to kill 1 troop in the Beacon they get only experience. If troops die inside the Beacon normally those with the most defense get the most points and lose the most troops. 
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jims
12 October, 2016, 4:27 PM UTC

So what you are saying is: that IF my defense is strong enough that I kill 100's of attacking units, yet do not loose any units my self; then I get no credit for my defense. Is that right? Is that how it works?

This would seem to be inconsistent scoring, depending on someone's whim...

For instance; during PVP events any attack might generate PVP points, as long as something dies. But IF at a beacon, a good defense is a waste of time and effort since no credit is given for successful defense.


That may well end my involvement with Beacon events...they don't pay!




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brunsonthomas
12 October, 2016, 4:36 PM UTC
jims said:

So what you are saying is: that IF my defense is strong enough that I kill 100's of attacking units, yet do not loose any units my self; then I get no credit for my defense. Is that right? Is that how it works?

This would seem to be inconsistent scoring, depending on someone's whim...

For instance; during PVP events any attack might generate PVP points, as long as something dies. But IF at a beacon, a good defense is a waste of time and effort since no credit is given for successful defense.


That may well end my involvement with Beacon events...they don't pay!




Beacons themselves have defense without troops. Attacks on Beacons to be successful are often thousands of troops. When these attacks happen you will lose thousands of troops and get hundreds of points. It is a matter of numbers and strategy.
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jims
12 October, 2016, 5:11 PM UTC
Perhaps you should look into "HOW" the average player approaches this...as contrasted to your theory.
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BiohazarD
Moderator
12 October, 2016, 7:43 PM UTC
brunsonthomas said:

jims said:

So what you are saying is: that IF my defense is strong enough that I kill 100's of attacking units, yet do not loose any units my self; then I get no credit for my defense. Is that right? Is that how it works?

This would seem to be inconsistent scoring, depending on someone's whim...

For instance; during PVP events any attack might generate PVP points, as long as something dies. But IF at a beacon, a good defense is a waste of time and effort since no credit is given for successful defense.


That may well end my involvement with Beacon events...they don't pay!




Beacons themselves have defense without troops. Attacks on Beacons to be successful are often thousands of troops. When these attacks happen you will lose thousands of troops and get hundreds of points. It is a matter of numbers and strategy.
Actually, beacons themselves have no base defense value.  They offer a % boost to any defense units in them, but if there are no units in a beacon a single attacking unit can capture it. 
Any opinions expressed by me are my own and do not necessarily represent the opinions of or constitute official statements by Plarium.
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jims
12 October, 2016, 9:16 PM UTC

"So what you are saying is: that IF my defense is strong enough that I kill 100's of attacking units, yet do not loose any units my self; then I get no credit for my defense. Is that right? Is that how it works?"

This was kind of "side-stepped" in earlier comments...I think it is important perhaps closer to the "core" and I think it should be addressed...

In the event in question there was only one option for player action. That was to provide defense for the Beacon, and, it was stated explicitly that providing such defense was a viable option to attacking. Thus logically, defending units should generate "points" yet they do not unless killed...this seem somehow "counter" to the objective of the Beacon Event...



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Snowgoon
12 October, 2016, 11:58 PM UTC

Defensive losses at Beacons are not always rewarded
I have seen many times that I lose units and get zero


This is the easiest example that I can find but unfortunately is from pirate game (which uses identical combat mechanics)
Both attacks were against the same beacon within 30 minutes (this is a lightly defended beacon which we only use for pvp and tournaments)


First attack I lost 1 submarine (griffin) and 2 gunboats (golems) and got 110 + 102 tournament points - http://prnt.sc/ct58at


Second attack I lost 1 submarine and 1 gunboat and got absolutely nothing - http://prnt.sc/ct58qw



Seems like rewards are completely random, no logic
I am quite certain that many other players have seen the same thing many many times



Edit : Bio is perfectly correct. An empty beacon has zero defense. A level 5 beacon gives +25% defense to any units defending,
but 25% is not 25%

The game only adds 25% to the base unit stats of defending units

Griffin is 587.5 so gets 25% added to this figure (587.5 + 146.875 = 734.375)

146.875 is probably less than 12% of their normal value, certainly not worth spending thousands of sapphires to upgrade to level 5 :)

Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way - Pink Floyd - http://prnt.sc/dv923b
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IronApex Turok
13 October, 2016, 8:20 AM UTC

if one player has 50 million defense in the beacon and you only have 1 million defense in there, he is going to get all the points as his defense is doing most of the work.



if you want PvP points from beacon defense  you have to be one of the top defenders.
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Snowgoon
13 October, 2016, 1:42 PM UTC

IronApex Turok said:


if one player has 50 million defense in the beacon and you only have 1 million defense in there, he is going to get all the points as his defense is doing most of the work.



if you want PvP points from beacon defense  you have to be one of the top defenders.

The Loss Percentage formula should ensure that all beacon defenders lose the same percentage of each unit types and pvp points should be shared out according to this formula, not randomly.
There is no reason for the top defenders to lose a higher percentage of units ... and there is no reason for small defenders to lose a high percentage of units but get ZERO rewards

This game is all about the percentages


Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way - Pink Floyd - http://prnt.sc/dv923b
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Snowgoon
13 October, 2016, 1:49 PM UTC

Latest News


They have today increased upgrades for Lost Arts to Level 32 in the Pirate Game, but not for Stormfall (yet)

Would you like to see level 32 Dragons with +70% offense hitting your Beacons, Forts and Castles?
Mega-coiners and Pysco Serial Killers will love this upgrade


This would be a serious risk to our beacons, especially with no Force Limits here

Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way - Pink Floyd - http://prnt.sc/dv923b
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Sifr
13 October, 2016, 3:00 PM UTC

Snowgoon said:


Latest News


They have today increased upgrades for Lost Arts to Level 32 in the Pirate Game, but not for Stormfall (yet)

Would you like to see level 32 Dragons with +70% offense hitting your Beacons, Forts and Castles?
Mega-coiners and Pysco Serial Killers will love this upgrade


This would be a serious risk to our beacons, especially with no Force Limits here

Indeed. Upgrading to current max level took a really long time. Was it 6 days for the max time? Can't really remember. I guess this is how plarium can think of on how to make those sages desirable.
Fighter Sifr of Fellowship
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djmoody
13 October, 2016, 3:25 PM UTC

Come on - engage brain.

It's like that to prevent alt abuse. Otherwise you could get your whole league points spamming small low level alt troops at your beacons.

It's exactly the same mechanic as for 1 v 1 fights - also there to prevent alt abuse.

You can't get points from completely one sided fights for a VERY good reason.
Everyone has a right to an opinion. No one has a right to their opinion being respected by other if it can't be backed up with rational and logic explanation
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jims
13 October, 2016, 3:42 PM UTC

djmoody said:


Come on - engage brain.

It's like that to prevent alt abuse. Otherwise you could get your whole league points spamming small low level alt troops at your beacons.

It's exactly the same mechanic as for 1 v 1 fights - also there to prevent alt abuse.

You can't get points from completely one sided fights for a VERY good reason.

Actually, from just a casual observation One can easily see that the mechanic for Beacon play is vastly different that the mechanics for either PVP or BG.


It also becomes apparent that the Beacon mechanic wasn't thought through...And THAT is the "very good reason" you speak of; it wasn't thought through...

One sided fights do not advantage either player, IF they are properly thought through...


Your "spamming" example/model seems more an exercise in broken logic....

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Snowgoon
13 October, 2016, 4:10 PM UTC

Level 32 dragons will be available to mega coiners within a few days

Then we can fiddle while our beacons burn - Nero was right

Who's idea was this and why was it kept secret?



Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way - Pink Floyd - http://prnt.sc/dv923b
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WallyFous
13 October, 2016, 4:52 PM UTC
And they just added the 32 levels. 
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IronApex Turok
13 October, 2016, 6:44 PM UTC

i got news for you....


the beacons were in jeoapardy before the level 32 dragons.


there are are single players floating around with 1 billion offensive power. 
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BiohazarD
Moderator
13 October, 2016, 7:47 PM UTC
djmoody said:

Come on - engage brain.

It's like that to prevent alt abuse. Otherwise you could get your whole league points spamming small low level alt troops at your beacons.

It's exactly the same mechanic as for 1 v 1 fights - also there to prevent alt abuse.

You can't get points from completely one sided fights for a VERY good reason.
The odd thing is that this only applies to the defender, not the attacker.  So you could have an alt account put 100k defense in a beacon, then hit it with 10 mil+ offense and get a few k points while taking zero losses. 
Any opinions expressed by me are my own and do not necessarily represent the opinions of or constitute official statements by Plarium.
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djmoody
14 October, 2016, 4:43 PM UTC
BiohazarD said:

djmoody said:

Come on - engage brain.

It's like that to prevent alt abuse. Otherwise you could get your whole league points spamming small low level alt troops at your beacons.

It's exactly the same mechanic as for 1 v 1 fights - also there to prevent alt abuse.

You can't get points from completely one sided fights for a VERY good reason.
The odd thing is that this only applies to the defender, not the attacker.  So you could have an alt account put 100k defense in a beacon, then hit it with 10 mil+ offense and get a few k points while taking zero losses. 
Well the battle might yield a tiny amount of points for all defenders but divided by a whole league of defenders it rounds to zero. Or maybe its as simple at 5k of toops into 50m beacon is a lot more overpowering than 100m killing 1m for little losses and profitable points. Would have to do some maths and tbh cba cause I really don't see a problem here.
Everyone has a right to an opinion. No one has a right to their opinion being respected by other if it can't be backed up with rational and logic explanation
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djmoody
14 October, 2016, 4:50 PM UTC

jims said:


djmoody said:


Come on - engage brain.

It's like that to prevent alt abuse. Otherwise you could get your whole league points spamming small low level alt troops at your beacons.

It's exactly the same mechanic as for 1 v 1 fights - also there to prevent alt abuse.

You can't get points from completely one sided fights for a VERY good reason.

Actually, from just a casual observation One can easily see that the mechanic for Beacon play is vastly different that the mechanics for either PVP or BG.


It also becomes apparent that the Beacon mechanic wasn't thought through...And THAT is the "very good reason" you speak of; it wasn't thought through...

One sided fights do not advantage either player, IF they are properly thought through...


Your "spamming" example/model seems more an exercise in broken logic....


You should stick to writing about things you know about.

Beacon = siege mechanic

Castle Seige = siege mechanic

Settlement = siege mechanic

Castle Raid = raid mechanic

So absoultely no no no no no and more no. Beacon is no different from getting PvP on a settlement / Castle siege etc. There is nothing unique about PvP at all, other than where you choose to get it driving the mechanic you fight under. Beacon is just another place to get PvP (they are not separate things as you seem to think).

BG's are raid mechanic btw.

OK, lesson over (a lot more than you deserved for the style of your post).

Everyone has a right to an opinion. No one has a right to their opinion being respected by other if it can't be backed up with rational and logic explanation
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