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Capture the Flag

140 Replies
Gadheras
13 August, 2016, 10:56 AM UTC
Nemanja said:

Lord Turok,

fortress level's are only small part of leagues rankings cause beacons, territory, completed tasks and achieved improvements are upgrading tier's much more :)
Would been better if rankings was based on army strenght of the league.
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Nemanja
13 August, 2016, 11:06 AM UTC

Lord Gadheras,

please post your suggestion in http://plarium.com/forum/en/stormfall-age-of-war/suggestions/topics/your-suggestions

Nemanja
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djmoody
13 August, 2016, 2:41 PM UTC

djmoody said:


So did anyone lose any serious troops on this event? (been on holiday for a week).

I am guessing this event mainly went down as a collect flags from undefended fortesses OCD and that whoever was lucky enough to have the event launch on their timezone got an unassailable initial lead.


Having caught up with everyone this is exactly how the event went down.

And with force limit on fortresses, once the flags were captured there was nothing anyone could do to capture or further influence the event. 

An utterly flawed event, handing out hugely significant boosts in a random way, for very little work or achievement. Lets hope this doesn't hugely upset the game balance in the next week. Several years of game-play could be damaged in one ill-conceived event. That will be a horrendous outcome.

DO NOT run this event again as is.
Everyone has a right to an opinion. No one has a right to their opinion being respected by other if it can't be backed up with rational and logic explanation
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Alyona Kolomiitseva
Community Manager
15 August, 2016, 9:42 AM UTC
Fortuneteller said:


Lord Stojanovic, but I'm not sure :-) if you could disclose the level range for tiers that would help a lot to decide if I should file a ticket or not. 

You're 1 Tier below them.
Plarium Community Manager. Please note that I will be unable to respond to your private messages, review your tickets, or check your account information. All technical issues should be directed to our Support Team at plrm.me/Support_Plarium
UTC +2:00
Alyona Kolomiitseva
Community Manager
15 August, 2016, 9:49 AM UTC

djmoody said:


djmoody said:


So did anyone lose any serious troops on this event? (been on holiday for a week).

I am guessing this event mainly went down as a collect flags from undefended fortesses OCD and that whoever was lucky enough to have the event launch on their timezone got an unassailable initial lead.


Having caught up with everyone this is exactly how the event went down.

And with force limit on fortresses, once the flags were captured there was nothing anyone could do to capture or further influence the event. 

An utterly flawed event, handing out hugely significant boosts in a random way, for very little work or achievement. Lets hope this doesn't hugely upset the game balance in the next week. Several years of game-play could be damaged in one ill-conceived event. That will be a horrendous outcome.

DO NOT run this event again as is.

Thank you for the feedback. I will pass it to our developers. 


To all:


How do you think, if we removed Attack Limits on Fortresses during the event, would it help Leagues to fight back, influence the event, etc?


Plarium Community Manager. Please note that I will be unable to respond to your private messages, review your tickets, or check your account information. All technical issues should be directed to our Support Team at plrm.me/Support_Plarium
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IronApex Turok
15 August, 2016, 9:58 AM UTC
how would increases the attack help with fighting back?
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djmoody
15 August, 2016, 11:54 AM UTC

IronApex Turok said:


how would increases the attack help with fighting back?

At the moment there is a force limit to attacking fortresses. The max power you could send to a level 8 fortress with a normal mix of troops would be about 200m. 

If you understand the siege mechanics that works at fortresses you will know that defenders can therefore stack their fortress and kill off all attacks with small losses. E.g a 1bn defended fortress would take 9% losses (approx 90m) in killing 92% (approx 185m) of the attackers in a 200m hit. The loss ratio is 2, just way too expensive to make any kind of sense.

Everyone has a right to an opinion. No one has a right to their opinion being respected by other if it can't be backed up with rational and logic explanation
UTC +0:00
djmoody
15 August, 2016, 12:30 PM UTC

Alyona Kolomiitseva said:



Thank you for the feedback. I will pass it to our developers. 


To all:


How do you think, if we removed Attack Limits on Fortresses during the event, would it help Leagues to fight back, influence the event, etc?


Not convinced that would fix the event. 

There would still be an effective cap for attacks. The cap would be the size of your 3 largest offence players. A 200m defended fortress would still be too painful to take down - even the coined hammers of UE and Destiny in my version (600m and 800m respectively last time I looked) would take 1 for 1 losses against 200m (remember its seige mechanic that favours defenders).

A relatively small league with no beacons could easily put 200m on a fortress (150 players with 1.5m defence), let alone what the big leagues can do (although they would have the dilemma of defending beacons or fortresses).

It would change fortresses from being invulnerable to just pretty much invulnerable.

The real problem with the event is that most fortresses are unguarded at lvl 5 or lvl 8 defence. There is no reason or benefit to defend fortresses. Most leagues, due to the time block to knowledge research, aren't even close to needing more than a lvl 8 fortress, even half a year after their introduction (only massive coining leagues). There are only a couple of seriously defended fortresses in the game where leagues have gone over lvl 8.

So the event becomes simply, who is online at the start of the event to steal all the undefended flags. The event might as well be just 6 hrs long. surely you noticed for yourselves there was virtually no activity past day 1.

A few bigs leagues who value the buffs might for a potential beacon war might be persuaded to temporarily put defence into fortresses and partcipate. But this still does nothing for the event, they will defend to the point that it's too painful for attackers to hit them, so the event will still be about who can pick off the undefended beacons quick enough, just with slightly more participants.

An event based around who is lucky enough to be a the right timezone just isn't good enough for the potentially game unbalancing 30% buffs.

I'll try and think of a way to make this event work but off the top of my head can't think of any easy solutions to the problems the current game mechanics create.

My STRONG recommendation would be to remove the offence and defence buffs from the event. They are too powerful for an event that can be won through luck rather than any serious achievement.

Until the event can be fixed please remove them.

Everyone has a right to an opinion. No one has a right to their opinion being respected by other if it can't be backed up with rational and logic explanation
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djmoody
15 August, 2016, 12:33 PM UTC

I'll keep editing this post with ideas.

1. Remove fortress power limit during event

Would make attacking a well defended fortress slightly easier. But siege mechanic still favors defenders significantly. A league serious in participation could still put up a defense that it would be too painful for anyone in the game to attack.

2. Change Fortress mechanic to raiding not siege

Would probably lead to massive amount of unhappiness given it was player feedback that got fortresses changed to seige mechanic in the first place. 

Would ensure 1:1 losses on all fortress attacks though. Would someone want to lose 100m-200m offence to win this event though? Would still expect little to no action on well defended fortresses, event wouldn't change much. Those with 8+ fortresses would be hugely annoyed at the need to perpetually defend against small attacks that can wear them down. Suspect virtually no1 would go past level 8 anymore.

3. Remove lvl 5 and 8 Fortress protection

Would force leagues to defend fortresses. Capturing a flag would then mean something as it would have been fought for. All the flags wouldn't disappear in the first couple of hours as taking them would need organisation and preparation.

Suspect the forums would run red with blood at this suggestion.

Outcome would probably be a handful of powerful leagues with leveled fortresses with everyone else bullied to level 0 by the strong leagues. At that point the event would again become dead as there would be no flags that could be sensibly captured.

4. Replenishing Flags

Would mean that the event wouldn't be just who was lucky enough to be online in the first couple of hours.

Would be hugely unfair to any league that did fight defense to capture a flag as anyone else would be able to come behind them and capture the same flag for free once the defense was defeated.

5. Flag points based on defense killed not tiers

Change flag points to be proportional to the defense killed in obtaining them.

Spamming undefended fortresses would yield no points. The winner of the event would actually then have to accomplish something to win. Would actually be a working event.

Problem - there aren't many defended fortresses. There literally might be no content to the event, nothing to hit. The big leagues would murder the couple of small poorly defended fortresses on day 1, then zero content.

6. Balur defended Outposts not Fortresses

Capture flags from new balur outposts not player fortresses. Balur will always defend, hence the flags will be earned. They would be a bit like super BG's but visible to all not personal.

Keep the mechanic of storing the flags at fortresses that can be captured by successful attack (I suspect you want a PvP element to make the most money - just being realistic with my suggestions).

Suggest balur outposts have randomised defence and failed attacks do not show the troop strength. This will bring an element of skill to the event as you will need to be able to strength test outpost to know how to effectively attack it. Organised league attacks with softening blows and then hammers, similar to beacon takedowns would require teamwork and co-ordination. Winning the event would require skill and activity. The flag points would be proportional to balur defence killled (like a BG is during BG events).

Similar to your TS beacon smashing event, maybe after the event players would get 90-97% of losses back for free (90% to align to the TD event, 97% would align to the BGs payouts post tax). Otherwise event will have little activity.

Balur outposts would spawn throughout the event (so there is content throughout the whole event).


I am actually quite excited about option 6 if Plarium are willing to actually invest a little development time to create a really decent event.

Other than option 6 option 5 seems to be the only sensible suggestion, although the lack of defended fortresses would probably leave the event with little activity. At least the rewards would be earned though.
Everyone has a right to an opinion. No one has a right to their opinion being respected by other if it can't be backed up with rational and logic explanation
UTC +0:00
Snowgoon
15 August, 2016, 1:23 PM UTC

Why would anyone ever want to attack a well defended fortress? The whole idea of raising the attack limit is insane

What we need is a better way to DEFEND our forts otherwise they will remain empty forever


This is what happened when 3 idiots decided to attack our fort - http://prntscr.com/c5yvsj


They lost heavily, but so did we

Because of this attack I was finally able to convince my league to pull ALL defense from the fort, never to return.


Epic battles do not create an epic wargame - it just causes epic losses for everyone

This is NOT the definition of Hardcore MMO
Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way - Pink Floyd - http://prnt.sc/dv923b
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Gadheras
15 August, 2016, 2:19 PM UTC

Tony Hobson said:




Epic battles do not create an epic wargame - it just causes epic losses for everyone

This is NOT the definition of Hardcore MMO

well, a game isnt hardcore because it hit you hard in the wallet if you want to be competive. and that is what Stormfall does. It doesn't offer a hardcore game based on grind, time and effort either, because sitting around waiting for things to complete is not hardcore its just waiting which is boring. 

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Alyona Kolomiitseva
Community Manager
16 August, 2016, 2:09 PM UTC
Thank you all. I have passed your feedback and ideas regarding this Tournament to our devs.
Plarium Community Manager. Please note that I will be unable to respond to your private messages, review your tickets, or check your account information. All technical issues should be directed to our Support Team at plrm.me/Support_Plarium
UTC +2:00
IronApex Turok
21 August, 2016, 8:02 PM UTC

Nemanja said:


Lord Turok,

fortress level's are only small part of leagues rankings cause beacons, territory, completed tasks and achieved improvements are upgrading tier's much more :)

a level 8 fortress provides 153k worth of influence points.  the only way to get that amount of points is by taking on multiple beacons in high territory areas. 


So for those with few to no beacons, Fortress makes up a significant portion of their ranking points. 
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Alyona Kolomiitseva
Community Manager
22 August, 2016, 9:03 AM UTC
IronApex Turok said:


a level 8 fortress provides 153k worth of influence points.  the only way to get that amount of points is by taking on multiple beacons in high territory areas. 


So for those with few to no beacons, Fortress makes up a significant portion of their ranking points. 
You're right. Many players were asking us to add something for those who can't capture the Beacons. And the Fortress is that kind of feature. It's free to build, could be free to upgrade if you succeed in Tournaments and Missions, and it has 2 safe levels which don't require any Units to protect. 
Plarium Community Manager. Please note that I will be unable to respond to your private messages, review your tickets, or check your account information. All technical issues should be directed to our Support Team at plrm.me/Support_Plarium
UTC +2:00
Drogar61
23 August, 2016, 11:56 PM UTC

Alyona Kolomiitseva said:


IronApex Turok said:



a level 8 fortress provides 153k worth of influence points.  the only way to get that amount of points is by taking on multiple beacons in high territory areas. 


So for those with few to no beacons, Fortress makes up a significant portion of their ranking points. 
You're right. Many players were asking us to add something for those who can't capture the Beacons. And the Fortress is that kind of feature. It's free to build, could be free to upgrade if you succeed in Tournaments and Missions, and it has 2 safe levels which don't require any Units to protect. 

You really like to play words game. While you win, only.

You claim that you made fortress for those who can't have beacon. Did you? It seems that you made fortress for every league not just for those who can't have beacon, because, as opposite, you will disabled effects of fortress for those who have beacon(s).

So you DIDN'T make anything for smaller leagues, but made another point where differences are obvious. Beacons as only beacons are free, and leveling up is free, too. For most of fortress leveling up is possible only for sapps, specially if you are smaller league. With no benefit compared to the bigger leagues.

I'm not talking about fortress, whether it is justified that they exist, I'm talking about your mantra about gesture towards small leagues, and your good will to help smaller leagues. Please don't help us more, we're more OK yesterday than today, than we will be tomorrow.

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IronApex Turok
24 August, 2016, 6:38 AM UTC

Alyona Kolomiitseva said:


IronApex Turok said:



a level 8 fortress provides 153k worth of influence points.  the only way to get that amount of points is by taking on multiple beacons in high territory areas. 


So for those with few to no beacons, Fortress makes up a significant portion of their ranking points. 
You're right. Many players were asking us to add something for those who can't capture the Beacons. And the Fortress is that kind of feature. It's free to build, could be free to upgrade if you succeed in Tournaments and Missions, and it has 2 safe levels which don't require any Units to protect. 

it also puts those small weak leagues in the top tiers for other tournaments. so....did you really help them?



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Snowgoon
24 August, 2016, 4:02 PM UTC

Alyona Kolomiitseva said:


You're right. Many players were asking us to add something for those who can't capture the Beacons. And the Fortress is that kind of feature. It's free to build, could be free to upgrade if you succeed in Tournaments and Missions, and it has 2 safe levels which don't require any Units to protect. 

Too many smaller leagues built their fortress with no idea how much it was going to cost to upgrade, so they ended up with level zero fort and absolutely no benefit - What are you offering these leagues?

.... or maybe you should muzzle the big leagues who love to play whack-a-mole with weak forts - give level zero to level 3 permanent protection.

Help weak leagues to grow and you will earn our respect for a change
Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way - Pink Floyd - http://prnt.sc/dv923b
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Alyona Kolomiitseva
Community Manager
25 August, 2016, 7:54 AM UTC
Snowgoon said:

Too many smaller leagues built their fortress with no idea how much it was going to cost to upgrade, so they ended up with level zero fort and absolutely no benefit - What are you offering these leagues?

.... or maybe you should muzzle the big leagues who love to play whack-a-mole with weak forts - give level zero to level 3 permanent protection.

Help weak leagues to grow and you will earn our respect for a change
They can collect the necessary Resources in Tournaments.
Plarium Community Manager. Please note that I will be unable to respond to your private messages, review your tickets, or check your account information. All technical issues should be directed to our Support Team at plrm.me/Support_Plarium
UTC +2:00
Snowgoon
24 October, 2016, 8:23 PM UTC

Another Flag Tournament for Halloween?


What changes have been made to improve this tournament?

Let me guess ....... none?
Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way - Pink Floyd - http://prnt.sc/dv923b
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Knightmare
26 October, 2016, 3:34 AM UTC

Well. sounds like a fun game !


Lots of losses and no gains.


No reason to play it, our fort will remain undefended at our safe zone. Let the hurricane of losses pass through for other people.And for those who really want to see this work. why not make it a volunteer program. Since not everyone is interested.

Enjoy !
Nug Life !
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