WANTED: A real update that doesn't exploit current Mechanics

20 Replies
Nemstar
8 July, 2016, 3:18 AM UTC

Title says it all


We want a more balanced structure between coiners & non-coiners (they still will have lots of advantages) 

^ But not the ability to wipe out one league on your own depending how big your pocket is (i.e. Roftie)


We want Plarium to respect us (your customers) and bring in updates that will help the future integrity of the game

^ Not updates that exploit current mechanics giving less for more in hopes of people spending more for what their use too (i.e. Greed)


We want to play a game where we can come and relax & have fun (its just a game)

^ Not frustration upon endless frustration as we leap through your exploitations to try and play competitively or have a significant impact


I've said this time and time again. Your a business, your here to make money. We ALL respect that. But if your going to treat us like gum under your boot and ignore the majority of the community when they cry out about your constant exploitations to try and increase your profits then how do you expect to grow/expand? Your losing a lot of long-term loyal customers/players because of short-term thinking, in time you'll be left with a pool of income from new players only until the game dies, as it stands id say your at your peak so you've already priced your business. Unless some changes come soon, this is about as good as it gets for us players & Plarium...

P.S. If you support my opinions on what the community wants (the three key points) then leave a like on topic please to show them its not just one players opinions

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Alyona Kolomiitseva
Community Manager
8 July, 2016, 11:23 AM UTC

Nemstar, I appreciate the time you spent on writing your suggestions and feedback. Thank you. 

In ecosystem of our hardcore gameplay, without a proper understanding and clear strategy, non-coiners won't be able to compete with paying players. To be honest, every F2P (free to play) game shares the same balance. This is a common thing. 

Here you could check a really great article written by Pascal Luban about F2P model: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/6552/the_design_of_freetoplay_games_.php

We, as a game development company have long-term content plans with different gaming features and new mechanics. We implemented Dragon feature, Heroes feature and a lot of other new mechanics that involve players and encourage them to use those new features The game evolves with players and we like this tendency. New rules, new mechanics, new features - these are signs of a successful evolving gaming environment. 

Speaking of fun and enjoyment, I have a perfect article that explains everything: https://www.scirra.com/tutorials/434/game-design-8-kinds-of-fun

There are different kinds of fun that exist in our world. Our game gives players different kinds of fun (i.e Fantasy, Fellowship, Discovery, Challenge). Unfortunately, the opposite side of hardcore ecosystem is frustration. But hardcore gives us an opportunity to provide players with different challenges. 

Nemstar, as you can see I'm more than happy to explain you our position and share some inside information. The only thing I ask  is to stop spamming the Forum with multiple messages with similar context. Our desire is to keep our Forum friendly and such actions don't allow us and me in particular to follow that desire. Please, follow our rules and let us to keep the forum friendly.

Once again, thank you for the honest feedback. I appreciate your passion for our game. 

Plarium Community Manager. Please note that I will be unable to respond to your private messages, review your tickets, or check your account information. All technical issues should be directed to our Support Team at plrm.me/Support_Plarium
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Gadheras
8 July, 2016, 3:30 PM UTC

Alyona Kolomiitseva said:


Nemstar, I appreciate the time you spent on writing your suggestions and feedback. Thank you. 

In ecosystem of our hardcore gameplay, without a proper understanding and clear strategy, non-coiners won't be able to compete with paying players. To be honest, every F2P (free to play) game shares the same balance. This is a common thing. 



I have to arrest you on this. I have been playing Heartstone since it came out. I spent a bit on expansions, but for most parts opened them with jsaved up gold. I got over 90% of the cards possible and that is just from playing the game, do the dailies. Do arena runs and so on. Not all f2p games follow the same model. And that just one example.

There is also f2p games out there you can actually make RL cash playing with some good luck of RNG. 



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djmoody
9 July, 2016, 12:25 AM UTC

Alyona Kolomiitseva said:


Nemstar, I appreciate the time you spent on writing your suggestions and feedback. Thank you. 

In ecosystem of our hardcore gameplay, without a proper understanding and clear strategy, non-coiners won't be able to compete with paying players. To be honest, every F2P (free to play) game shares the same balance. This is a common thing. 

Here you could check a really great article written by Pascal Luban about F2P model: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/6552/the_design_of_freetoplay_games_.php

We, as a game development company have long-term content plans with different gaming features and new mechanics. We implemented Dragon feature, Heroes feature and a lot of other new mechanics that involve players and encourage them to use those new features The game evolves with players and we like this tendency. New rules, new mechanics, new features - these are signs of a successful evolving gaming environment. 

Speaking of fun and enjoyment, I have a perfect article that explains everything: https://www.scirra.com/tutorials/434/game-design-8-kinds-of-fun

There are different kinds of fun that exist in our world. Our game gives players different kinds of fun (i.e Fantasy, Fellowship, Discovery, Challenge). Unfortunately, the opposite side of hardcore ecosystem is frustration. But hardcore gives us an opportunity to provide players with different challenges. 

Nemstar, as you can see I'm more than happy to explain you our position and share some inside information. The only thing I ask  is to stop spamming the Forum with multiple messages with similar context. Our desire is to keep our Forum friendly and such actions don't allow us and me in particular to follow that desire. Please, follow our rules and let us to keep the forum friendly.

Once again, thank you for the honest feedback. I appreciate your passion for our game. 

That is one of the best posts I have seen from a member of staff of a developer :)

I will come back and explore some of the points when I have a bit more time.


Everyone has a right to an opinion. No one has a right to their opinion being respected by other if it can't be backed up with rational and logic explanation
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Drogar61
9 July, 2016, 2:08 AM UTC

@Alyona:

Again, you have nice words, and you look like person who cares. I really don't know do you care about us or not.

But, you put two links in your last message. Good choice(s).

Problem is if you read that posts and compare them with Stormfall.

You missed over 50% (maybe 80%) of best practices from text you pointed to.

What is the sense of that?

More that half of good practices from first text is simple logical, and we tried, and still try, to warn Plarium exactly on that mistakes.

Maybe Plarium stuff should read your post, and do something with that. You're killing this game with your non-understanding main points of that text, mocking common sense.

Maybe you really want to make great game, maybe you really think that you know what are doing, but in reality you're lying yourself and ruin this what is left from promised game.

I want to play this game as many of us, but this game is almost unplayable. Except obvious goal to collect RL money, I really can't see any your goal in game. From war oriented, fantasy strategy game you made cold-war game, only we have more than 2 opposite sides (or maybe we event  don't have more than 2).

If you're happy with current game, I don't want to spoil that.

I'm not your enemy, nor many of us, we're players who can't play this game on this way.

Please change your goals, not because of me, but because of you. Maybe you can still save this game.

Just read your own links.

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Alyona Kolomiitseva
Community Manager
11 July, 2016, 8:39 AM UTC

Gadheras said:


Alyona Kolomiitseva said:


Nemstar, I appreciate the time you spent on writing your suggestions and feedback. Thank you. 

In ecosystem of our hardcore gameplay, without a proper understanding and clear strategy, non-coiners won't be able to compete with paying players. To be honest, every F2P (free to play) game shares the same balance. This is a common thing. 



I have to arrest you on this. I have been playing Heartstone since it came out. I spent a bit on expansions, but for most parts opened them with jsaved up gold. I got over 90% of the cards possible and that is just from playing the game, do the dailies. Do arena runs and so on. Not all f2p games follow the same model. And that just one example.

There is also f2p games out there you can actually make RL cash playing with some good luck of RNG. 



Well, yes. I'd better say "almost every strategy F2P game"'. Hearthstone is a F2P game - yes, but it shares completely different monetization model. Hearthstone is a  CCC (Collectible Card Game). Almost impossible to compare with strategies. 

Thanks for pointing this out.

Plarium Community Manager. Please note that I will be unable to respond to your private messages, review your tickets, or check your account information. All technical issues should be directed to our Support Team at plrm.me/Support_Plarium
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Alyona Kolomiitseva
Community Manager
11 July, 2016, 9:07 AM UTC

Drogar61 said:


@Alyona:

Again, you have nice words, and you look like person who cares. I really don't know do you care about us or not.

But, you put two links in your last message. Good choice(s).

Problem is if you read that posts and compare them with Stormfall.

You missed over 50% (maybe 80%) of best practices from text you pointed to.

What is the sense of that?

More that half of good practices from first text is simple logical, and we tried, and still try, to warn Plarium exactly on that mistakes.

Maybe Plarium stuff should read your post, and do something with that. You're killing this game with your non-understanding main points of that text, mocking common sense.

Maybe you really want to make great game, maybe you really think that you know what are doing, but in reality you're lying yourself and ruin this what is left from promised game.

I want to play this game as many of us, but this game is almost unplayable. Except obvious goal to collect RL money, I really can't see any your goal in game. From war oriented, fantasy strategy game you made cold-war game, only we have more than 2 opposite sides (or maybe we event  don't have more than 2).

If you're happy with current game, I don't want to spoil that.

I'm not your enemy, nor many of us, we're players who can't play this game on this way.

Please change your goals, not because of me, but because of you. Maybe you can still save this game.

Just read your own links.

Of course we care about every player. Thank you. 

I sent those articles just to show that the subject is really really complex. Every article you can read on the Internet about the Game Design is based on the experience + personal opinion. It's near impossible to follow guides of every Game Designer out there.

I understand your point and don't want to argue. I just want to say that we make mistakes and we correct them. Our last content updates are showing a great tendency of implementing totally new mechanics to the game. I believe that soon the game will become insanely dynamic and even more interesting. 

By developing every feature we ask ourselves so many questions... We even re-worked some features when realized that it won't be that usable and comfortable for players. 

Plarium Community Manager. Please note that I will be unable to respond to your private messages, review your tickets, or check your account information. All technical issues should be directed to our Support Team at plrm.me/Support_Plarium
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IronApex Turok
11 July, 2016, 4:37 PM UTC

F2P encourages balance by having non paying customers spend time instead of spending money.


ingame features that require a player to stay logged in reward a player with items that would normally cost money.


coining should give you option of foregoing the time investment. 



In Stormfall, investing our time does not give us the same rewards as investing our coins.



This is the imbalance of the game. this is the reason this is not a free to play game. Any reward in the game requires that you invest your rewards. in order to get rewards you have invest money.  otherwise,  you are left playing farmville. 
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Drogar61
11 July, 2016, 6:20 PM UTC

@Alyona, you have right to make your game as you want, to change it how you believe that would be better. I'm glad that you have mentioned ideas.

What you can't, or better what you will not can (because you already show that you could), is to destroy our effort or money built in this game.

I could believe that my troops are still in BG. I put them inside following your old rules. And you changed the rules and I (read most of us) have problem to get them back. SO, you call us to put money in your bank, hiding info about taxes, at the beginning, allowing us to think that bank will get us premiums. When you changed something, or we revealed that, you finally admitted existing of taxes.

We continue to fill your bank, and on one or the other way after few months all of us including Plarium have some rules about banking.

So, who wanted to pay tax had opportunity to use your bank on its own best way.

Last changes, before a month, took from us possibility to pull out what we invested over time. That isn't acceptable.

I don't want to repeat myself, but you're repeating yourself, with constant blurring truth, giving us, maybe truth maybe not, but just a part of it, talking that everything is inside, nothing lost, that you want to protect us, and so on.

Parts of truth, said on such way, are nothing than lies.

Problem is that you have courage to change game making damage to us, but at same time you haven't courage to say: "Yes we did that".

I hope that you don't want to receive visitors with such behavior in your house.

While we will be here we haven't choice except to accept your realizations, but don't make fool of us.

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roadstar Pitbull
11 July, 2016, 9:41 PM UTC

Alyona Kolomiitseva said:

I see many including myself agreeing with NEMSTAR, DROGAR61, IRONAPEX, and others.

Where are yours and Plarium's supporters????? (that are not the payroll)

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Extremption
8 August, 2016, 6:23 PM UTC

Nice to see that this was ignored...


Plarium: Can we get a clap for the new 50% attack/defense update players!

New players: CLAPS HARD!!! *WOLF WHISTLES*

Veteran players: You got to be ******* joking *facepalm*



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Nemstar
8 August, 2016, 6:52 PM UTC
Your right Coffex, nothings changed at all... in fact its got worse so id say this topic is still completely relevant. Thanks for the bump :)
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Gadheras
8 August, 2016, 7:17 PM UTC

Extremption said:


Nice to see that this was ignored...


Plarium: Can we get a clap for the new 50% attack/defense update players!

New players: CLAPS HARD!!! *WOLF WHISTLES*

Veteran players: You got to be ******* joking *facepalm*



Problem with that item in question, is like they introduce a subscription model of sorts. Unless you buy into it, you at a serious disadventage, and you just have to assume everyone else use it. If you jump onboard that train, you end up spend twice as much as any sub based mmo out there cost a month. In addition to all the other "pay 2 win" features in this game, it just get to much.



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Extremption
8 August, 2016, 7:33 PM UTC

Gadheras said:


Extremption said:


Nice to see that this was ignored...


Plarium: Can we get a clap for the new 50% attack/defense update players!

New players: CLAPS HARD!!! *WOLF WHISTLES*

Veteran players: You got to be ******* joking *facepalm*



Problem with that item in question, is like they introduce a subscription model of sorts. Unless you buy into it, you at a serious disadventage, and you just have to assume everyone else use it. If you jump onboard that train, you end up spend twice as much as any sub based mmo out there cost a month. In addition to all the other "pay 2 win" features in this game, it just get to much.



Exactly & seen as my post to the players was just deleted about a final stand against Plarium for all players to stop spending money for a month or more till they listen (not surprised they deleted it lol) im actually done with this game.

What i have seen is plarium take a big gamble. They obviously brought in the player base to begin with and after a solid player base (tens of thousands) they started implementing updates to exploit current mechanics so we get less than what we were use too. They basically completely fked over anyone playing this game, old & new, old knowing whats going on, new oblivious but if they knew would quit instantly (hence why alot of posts are deleted). Started all nice and decent & now that we have em hooked with a good game lets fk it and milk it for all its worth while they think its going to continue. Im actually wild, ive been tricked by these greedy idiots into wasting my time. This was their short-term business plan all along & i guarantee they dnt care if it fails because theyll make another one


Ive heard of companies like these operating from overseas were they are actually in league with terroists and these short-term game flash sites are built to fund their terroist ideologies, didnt think terroists would use this sort of thing as its a game but with the way they treat their customers & business im not surprised. Its 100% obvious that they do not care, the community managers & moderators are just here to make it feel like we are heard and try reassure us that things are being done about it, lol get off, they pay you to say these things. This game was built to milk as much money from players before it dies, it was never built to last.

Im angry at them because they try to trick you otherwise so you stay & spend money. I.e. Greedy evil people, way too many in this world, people id kill in a heartbeat and not even bat an eyelid, such scum. Anyways yeah i am done with this game.


If your going to force me to pay money ill actually go pay for a monthly subscription on a game like WoW where it is WORTH (<--underlinex20) it.


Gadheras you mention that it is a monthly subscription & you are right but the devil in the cards is the fact is its an "option" but as you said if u dnt have it its a serious disadvantage. But whats even worse is that this isnt a basis to be on par, then you have to spend more money to even compete with others who spend it, so they are forcing out there free player base. This is why i hate these people because they operate in evil ways & prey on peoples instincts and emotions purely for money, money money money. Id like to see people fking eat that when theres nothing left or make love to it. 

IF THEY WANTED YOU TO PAY FOR THIS GAME THEY SHOULD OF MADE IT THAT FKN WAY FROM THE START! DO NOT GIVE AND THEN TAKE AND EXPECT PEOPLE TO PAY FOR THAT! IN REAL LIFE THATS CALLED EXTORTION YOU FKING SCUM!

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Gadheras
8 August, 2016, 8:45 PM UTC

^^^^^^^^ Its a f2p game. All f2p games got a business model that involve encourage the players to spend money. Some f2p games does this very well. Where what you can spend on save you time, xp boost, resource boost and so on. Fancy fluff that make you look cool but doesn't have any inpact on the game outside of that. These games the players can for most parts spend their time to grind to compete vs those that spend. 


Then we got f2p games such as Stormfall that is a much more shameless pay to win game. the f2p aspect is just in reality a "free to try the game". Sure you can keep play without spend a dime, but you not really getting anywhere anytime soon. 


Also if you make posts where you suggest people boycout and stop spending, or call Plarium for terrorists and such, there is no wonder your post get deleted. Also, overseas from where? I see your location is Australia.. Anything is overseas for you as long as its not Australia :p



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IronApex Turok
8 August, 2016, 10:08 PM UTC

Alyona Kolomiitseva said:



In ecosystem of our hardcore gameplay, without a proper understanding and clear strategy, non-coiners won't be able to compete with paying players. To be honest, every F2P (free to play) game shares the same balance. This is a common thing. 


kinda hard to develop strategy when the developer changes the mechanics every couple of weeks or introduces power ups that fatally unbalance the game.



it is impossible to strategize in this game. 
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IronApex Turok
8 August, 2016, 10:10 PM UTC

who has a proper understanding of this game? how can we. it evolves so much no one can keep up with it. i try to share the guides and write ups with new members, but they are so out of date they are irrelevent.  keeping them up to date requires so much time there is no time for game play.



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Extremption
9 August, 2016, 3:02 AM UTC

Gadheras said:


^^^^^^^^ Its a f2p game. All f2p games got a business model that involve encourage the players to spend money. Some f2p games does this very well. Where what you can spend on save you time, xp boost, resource boost and so on. Fancy fluff that make you look cool but doesn't have any inpact on the game outside of that. These games the players can for most parts spend their time to grind to compete vs those that spend. 


Then we got f2p games such as Stormfall that is a much more shameless pay to win game. the f2p aspect is just in reality a "free to try the game". Sure you can keep play without spend a dime, but you not really getting anywhere anytime soon. 


Also if you make posts where you suggest people boycout and stop spending, or call Plarium for terrorists and such, there is no wonder your post get deleted. Also, overseas from where? I see your location is Australia.. Anything is overseas for you as long as its not Australia :p



Not surprised they were deleted but yes i went too far & lost my shit. I don't like to accuse people like that but they prove me right time and time again. 


Yes there balance of f2p to p2p was fine towards the start of the game but they saw the influx of players and decided to get greedy and instead of making something great. Milk it before it has a chance to fail, short-term business plan, i havent seen actions or updates point towards anything else but get as much money as possible. They could of made bigger discounts etc etc so people spend more but no they actually take away from the player and then expect them to pay for what they were getting for free with time & effort of course. I dont have a problem with their business model tbh, i have a problem with how they decided to go about it. Lure all the players in & then trick them, lie, make up excuses etc to keep it running and the money flowing. 



Just happy in my 10 months playing here that i bought a pack maybe once or twice so they havent ripped me off :) ill be finding a better game to play that values my time more
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Gadheras
9 August, 2016, 6:10 AM UTC

Extremption said:



In regards to "in league with terrorists overseas" comment i have heard heavy rumours from credible sources that they operate out of iran and people are being warned about flash games like these that they make as short-term, build it up to be something nice and then milk it dry, rinse and repeat. Ive had friends take plarium to court on spending their money without warning etc or extra charges being made to big spenders hoping they wont notice and have won their money back (accounts now have negative sapphires). It's all been toxic, they even steal off you without warning, when a companies that bad im pretty much done.



afaik, Plarium is an Ukraine and Israeli company. Not likely to fund terrorism tbh. And I see they offer PayPal as payment method if you scared of expose your cc details. 


Also, if you state what you do above without any proof to point towards, the term is slander which is bad. At least I couldnt find any links to them being sued or court cases with a quick google search. Such things usually hit the gaming media fast, so should been some proof out therre right?


Someone could have spent on sapphires. Then regret their decission, and made a chargeback. If they do such a thing after they spent the sapphires Plarium would set your account in negatives, because then what you do is basicaly steal sapphires.


Just because they got a fracked up model which a lot of us see as greedy and disgusting doesn't make them out to be evil and what not. 



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Alyona Kolomiitseva
Community Manager
9 August, 2016, 11:08 AM UTC
Extremption said:

Not surprised they were deleted but yes i went too far & lost my shit. I don't like to accuse people like that but they prove me right time and time again. 


Yes there balance of f2p to p2p was fine towards the start of the game but they saw the influx of players and decided to get greedy and instead of making something great. Milk it before it has a chance to fail, short-term business plan, i havent seen actions or updates point towards anything else but get as much money as possible. They could of made bigger discounts etc etc so people spend more but no they actually take away from the player and then expect them to pay for what they were getting for free with time & effort of course. I dont have a problem with their business model tbh, i have a problem with how they decided to go about it. Lure all the players in & then trick them, lie, make up excuses etc to keep it running and the money flowing. 



Just happy in my 10 months playing here that i bought a pack maybe once or twice so they havent ripped me off :) ill be finding a better game to play that values my time more
I had to edit your post, because you spread not just rumors, but false information. Please be careful with your words in future.
Plarium Community Manager. Please note that I will be unable to respond to your private messages, review your tickets, or check your account information. All technical issues should be directed to our Support Team at plrm.me/Support_Plarium
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