About mantra called Balance

41 Reply
Drogar61
10 June, 2016, 9:21 AM UTC

Too many answers concluded with story about balance in this game. Is it really truth?


To have balance

everybody should have possibility to have huge army,

not only coiners,

or

none of us could have chance to produce huge army,

including coiners.

Balance between coiners and non coiners should be by buying time.


For example, my 10 hours coiners should buy for 1 min. Let say that my hour worth 5$. So what I can produce for 10 hours he can buy for 50$, or vice versa. For 50$ coiner could buy 8250 sapps, or aprox. 100 Dragons (all just buy regular conditions).

That means that I have to have chance to produce 100 Dragons (or in total units which worth 100 Dragons) to be equal with him.

In your game for 10 hours I can produce about 5 Dragons in total (count all four slots for producing).

That is unbalance about what I'm talking.

And, also every ugly adjective belongs to your definition of balance, because in your balance coiners easily can make 20x more than non coiners.

You made your game, on your way, with your goal towards human vanity, and very easily feed your real bank.

All of last is acceptable for me, sheep are used for shearing.

What isn't acceptable? Your overworked explanations about game balance.

Not all of us are sheep.

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Juglar del Viento
Moderator
10 June, 2016, 11:18 AM UTC

my thought is that coiners would have even a huger army...got by less time and got spending money

i would like also have time of building decreased but i think is not to have a huge army but yes to participate in pvps and battlegrounds more time that i do. i have to wait to have defense for a tournament to get 500 points and get 20 eldrich gollem. its desesperating to have to wait actually my queues empty arround 8 - 10 months

but it is what there are on game and i must adapt my play

Regards
Resistance Is Futile
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Gadheras
10 June, 2016, 11:29 AM UTC

Juglar del Viento said:


my thought is that coiners would have even a huger army...got by less time and got spending money

i would like also have time of building decreased but i think is not to have a huge army but yes to participate in pvps and battlegrounds more time that i do. i have to wait to have defense for a tournament to get 500 points and get 20 eldrich gollem. its desesperating to have to wait actually my queues empty arround 8 - 10 months

but it is what there are on game and i must adapt my play

Regards

Coiners will ALWAYS have bigger and more.  Level the field so players can bounce back faster would work towards increase ballance and level the field.
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Drogar61
10 June, 2016, 12:08 PM UTC

My point isn't any kind of suggestion about production speed.

I'm trying to remove answers about balanced game.

Game isn't balanced.

There are several ways how game could be balanced, but for that there is a post in suggestion track.

On this post I want to discuss about balance, and I will be happy if anyone (any of mods, too) can explained how game is balanced (hundred times I heard that as some final answer about many problems in the game) in the context of my original post.
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Gadheras
10 June, 2016, 4:20 PM UTC

You can never really claim any ballance ina  game where pay to win is a large part of the game. Buying and revive units for cash, is a mjaor inballance. You have the "haves" and have nots". So any claim the devs or admins make, changes will destroy ballance, is void right off the bat, because there is not much ballance to speak of as it is.



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Alyona Kolomiitseva
Community Manager
13 June, 2016, 8:23 AM UTC

I appreciate your attention to our game balance. However, please keep in mind that our game gives an opportunity to get more Units faster, if you use Sapphires. It doesn't mean that it is unbalanced. Balance is a more complicated thing which consists of hundreds if not thousands aspects connected to each game feature,k Item, Unit, players' interaction, etc. 

Each game feature is considered, explained, described in details with all possible limits, interactions, costs, etc. We have several departments which are working on a game balance. I understand that when you're reading this word, you imagine something like scales where you put two players: one who buys Sapphires, and one who doesn't. And you thing that the scales should be in balance. However, it's not the same game balance which I am talking about. 

I do understand that it's hard to compete with players who buy Sapphires if you don't. And if you do buy some Sapphires, it's hard to compete with players, who buy many of them. It's one of the basic game features. You can have a huge army, but you will need either Sapphires or time + strategy. Moreover, you can play in group, unite with other players against a stronger enemy, etc.

I am always glad to pass your suggestions further, but only if they fit our game balance (which may differ for different game features). Even your bravest ideas have a chance to be implemented, but sometimes good ideas are declined just because our game is not adjusted for such changes. 

I hope I could clarify this situation for you 

Plarium Community Manager. Please note that I will be unable to respond to your private messages, review your tickets, or check your account information. All technical issues should be directed to our Support Team at plrm.me/Support_Plarium
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IronApex Turok
13 June, 2016, 9:38 PM UTC

Alyona Kolomiitseva said:


I appreciate your attention to our game balance. However, please keep in mind that our game gives an opportunity to get more Units faster, if you use Sapphires. 

as usual, you have missed the point entirely.    there is no balance between coiners and non coiners. your answer is to become a coiner.



how is that helpful?  arent you embarrased to be making posts like this?  you are never helpful and either totally misunderstand what is being said or you just find some way to spin the idea of spending money to us.


 surely you realize how often you repeat the idea that buying saphires will fix things.



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Drogar61
14 June, 2016, 1:00 AM UTC

@Alyona:

You and me obviously are living on different planets. If we can't understand your (Plarium) definition of balance, why did you mention it among the sheep. Keep it for you and your environment and give us answer about we can agree or not, or nothing if you haven't such answer.


In this world balance has one meaning, and defined as "a state in which different things occur in equal or proper amounts or have an equal or proper amount of importance" (Merriam-Webster's Learner's Dictionary).

About that balance I was talking, and I was very narrow in defining a problem: ratio between possibilities between coiner and non coiner is extremely unbalanced. I don't care will you gain million of $ or not, from coiners. I just expose view (truth, to be more precise) and explain how coiner can buy advantage over non coiner. Huge advantage, more than 20x.

And again, I have to live with that if I want to play this game, but I have not to listen "explanations" which uses balance as answer for almost every critic. I'm happy that you and yours are happy when you're talking about balance, you very probably come from same planet and can understand each others, but I (and obviously many others) can't understand your language. Forgive us and give us the answers that we can understand. Or none.

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djmoody
15 June, 2016, 2:04 AM UTC

Alyona Kolomiitseva said:


I appreciate your attention to our game balance. However, please keep in mind that our game gives an opportunity to get more Units faster, 

Not "faster" - an infinite amount immediately. You can add those inifinite troops w/o playing the game at all.

Your game scales are at 89.9999999999 degrees, pretty much vertical, with coiners miles in the air and F2P in the dirt. If you think you can define that as balanced you are deluded.

If it was just "faster" people wouldn't be writing a post about game balance. Infinite & immediate - go away and reflect on that please.

Everyone has a right to an opinion. No one has a right to their opinion being respected by other if it can't be backed up with rational and logic explanation
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jprgg24
15 June, 2016, 8:34 AM UTC

I have to agree with them here, Alyona.


First of all, what we are looking for here is a win/win situation both for Plarium and all types of players:

Plarium: make money, grow your reputation as a company that makes great games, attract more players, make more money. (We understand that Plarium wants to make money, and that's ok. It's what companies exist for after all.)

Players: great and lasting entertainment value and enjoyable interaction with other players, being able to build up at a similar and competitive rate investing either time and/or money on the game.


I think it is important to understand that Plarium wins not only when a player spends money on the game, but also wins when they spend time on the game. Non-coiners who are willing to spend increased time instead of money are necessary to keep the game active and alive. Many of them tend to be hardcore strategy gamers who will dedicate time to master the different mechanics and strategies of the game and make it competitive, and therefore interesting for the coiners as well.


If a non-coiner (or low coiner) sees that all the time and effort he/she spends on the game are basically useless because the game rewards coiners disproportionately, he/she will become discouraged and is likely to stop spending time on the game or quit it altogether.


If you truly and honestly want to call the game "balanced", then it needs to offer equal opportunities for spending either one's time OR one's money:

1. ALL items/units/etc. must be available both to coiners and non-coiners, just at a different speed. AND...

2. The difference in speed is what truly must be balanced, not infinite and immediate for coiners and miniscule and eternal for non-coiners.


It is this second point in which the game currently fails and is turning away many players.



Basically, the game should reward two things: paying and spending time on the game.

Plarium wins because many players will want to spend money in order to save time and effort of building up.

Plarium wins because non-coiners are necessary to keep the game active and competitive for the coiners, who will continue to spend their money. 

(In my experience, one of the fastest ways to get players to spend cash impulsively is when a coiner has a large amount of troops destroyed and wants to take immediate revenge. He will pay large amounts of money to buy an army and take revenge. This situation will happen more often if non-coiners are able to be strong enough to really hurt them, which is currently not realistically possible in a reasonable amount of time.)


As DROGAR61 mentions above, I ask Plarium find out for themselves and then to tell us clearly: what is one hour of our active playing time worth to you in money? Unfortunately, as of now, by the way the game has been set up, your answer is "practically nothing".


Please let us help you make this game awesome and even more profitable for you. That's how we both win. Thank you.

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ilyria190
16 June, 2016, 5:31 PM UTC

Bravo, JPRGG24!!!! (wild applause and shouts of approval)  "Please let us help you make this game awesome and even more profitable for you. That's how we both win. Thank you."

You are the hero of all non-coiners for your eloquence...

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jprgg24
16 June, 2016, 8:18 PM UTC

ilyria190 said:


Bravo, JPRGG24!!!! (wild applause and shouts of approval)  "Please let us help you make this game awesome and even more profitable for you. That's how we both win. Thank you."

You are the hero of all non-coiners for your eloquence...

Haha... thanks, ILYRIA. Bravo to you for actually making it through my whole long post!

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jumy
20 June, 2016, 2:54 PM UTC

big buyer or Plarium castle?  image few days ago



how every little thing unbalances the game, by plarium bgs not changed  but the more importantly they are not the main plot of the game, ah no?

the important thing now is the hero, as if these objects take them only paying


few examples 10-40% when for years you expect for a stupid Crystal 10-20%

maybe you forgot to these achievements? 


another demonstration of how the game is balanced  click click click


when you use fireball against suspected castles 

and after the siege to prove that the troops were there


everything that you say are just wonderful stories, only see the plarium strategy

This game is a fake

The truth hurts
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Nemanja
20 June, 2016, 4:10 PM UTC

Lord JUMY,

more experienced players (like myself) can't notice any change in BG alghoritm. Furthermore, there are old posts explaining that fireballs damage is mostly limited to castle walls and skins. I'm sure that you'll change opinion after discovering Wyverns and Dragons.
Nemanja
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jumy
20 June, 2016, 4:55 PM UTC

Nemanja said:


Lord JUMY,

more experienced players (like myself) can't notice any change in BG alghoritm. Furthermore, there are old posts explaining that fireballs damage is mostly limited to castle walls and skins. I'm sure that you'll change opinion after discovering Wyverns and Dragons.

sorry for your position Lord Mod. i have done all wall lv5 and i have done all lost arts, in this screen you see a lv1 wall and when i receive fb lose at least 5 time this

greats story always :) plarium team and his castle
The truth hurts
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Inaginni
20 June, 2016, 10:53 PM UTC

Nemanja said:


Lord JUMY,

more experienced players (like myself) can't notice any change in BG alghoritm. Furthermore, there are old posts explaining that fireballs damage is mostly limited to castle walls and skins. I'm sure that you'll change opinion after discovering Wyverns and Dragons.

I'm sorry, but this is definitely wrong. I have played for coming on two years now and bgs have been changed multiple times. Perhaps you are talking about the BG algorithm changing in the last 1-2 months?

Also, fireballs ignore castle defense and deal damage 1 to 1. There's a post floating around out there about that and I'll edit that in, or reply to this thread if a few others reply first, if I find it.

I am curious though. You say you are more experienced so does that mean you're a mod that came from another game? Nothing personal, just curious since your registration in the forums states only a few months ago. Also, I know bgs are different in different games, which is another reason I'm asking.

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Nemanja
21 June, 2016, 7:08 AM UTC

Lord IRONAPEX TUROK,

Your previous post is deleted since its against moderators and therefore is violation of forum rules.

Nemanja
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Nemanja
21 June, 2016, 7:16 AM UTC

Lord Inaginni,

I'm playing Stormfall last five years. On S1 I was Marshal in 5 leagues and administrator of strongest alliance. Then I had some pause and here I am on S2 again at the moment lvl 80. 

Nemanja
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Vladimir Stojanovic
21 June, 2016, 8:03 AM UTC

Inaginni said:


I'm sorry, but this is definitely wrong. I have played for coming on two years now and bgs have been changed multiple times. Perhaps you are talking about the BG algorithm changing in the last 1-2 months?

Also, fireballs ignore castle defense and deal damage 1 to 1. There's a post floating around out there about that and I'll edit that in, or reply to this thread if a few others reply first, if I find it.

Re battlegrounds only thing that has changed is glitch fix and since fix everyone is talking about conspiracy and changes.

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Inaginni
21 June, 2016, 11:52 AM UTC

Vladimir Stojanovic said:


Inaginni said:


I'm sorry, but this is definitely wrong. I have played for coming on two years now and bgs have been changed multiple times. Perhaps you are talking about the BG algorithm changing in the last 1-2 months?

Also, fireballs ignore castle defense and deal damage 1 to 1. There's a post floating around out there about that and I'll edit that in, or reply to this thread if a few others reply first, if I find it.

Re battlegrounds only thing that has changed is glitch fix and since fix everyone is talking about conspiracy and changes.

Alright here are some of the changes battlegrounds have gone through in my time playing it. Up to about 1 year ago battlegrounds were such that the payout from them was worth 0.9-1.4 times the resources you put into them. There were then changes to this reward amount such that quite a few players see a "tax" on what they put in, allowing them to only get out 0.85-0.95 times the resources they put in. There was also the change of having small payouts appear for breaking bgs.

However, I should note that this tax only appears for certain players. A few still have payouts around 1.05-1.55 times while quite a few tend to be experiencing this tax system. At the moment, the reason for this is unknown, as even those at high level bgs can have these sorts of payouts, although it is rarer.

For sure though I wouldn't say a glitch was fixed unless you're talking about that time they glitched the small payouts.
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