attack vs defense

22 Replies
irreverant
15 May, 2016, 10:51 PM UTC
This game is weighted way too much in favor of attack its almost a joke, heck it is a joke , I've seen where 200 defense troops not only lose to 100 attack troops but they dont even kill 20 of the attack  troops really hey game makers GET A CLUE. If your in your castle and get attacked your done, but in history we know the even weak forces can hold the very strongest off because of a WALL again GAME MAKER GET A CLUE. I know that this cant be a new observation and can only assume that the people in charge dont care or just want it all one sided. Problem with all one sided is everyone holds up in catacombs, hamlets what a waste  ect how about we make it just a little more realistic. I would love to hear for the game designers why its this way.
zogg
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Gadheras
16 May, 2016, 7:31 AM UTC

So, how much walls you built?
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Alyona Kolomiitseva
Community Manager
16 May, 2016, 9:00 AM UTC

Greetings. One of the major game features is Balance between Offense and Defense. We keep this balance in order to give our players a fair choice of their development direction. 

If you just compare Offensive and Defensive Units of the same class, you can find out that Defense is much weaker. However, it requires less Resources and has some additional Bonuses (like your Castle Defense Bonus). So if you choose your strategy wisely, you can be even more effective using Defense, than other players using Offense.

Plarium Community Manager. Please note that I will be unable to respond to your private messages, review your tickets, or check your account information. All technical issues should be directed to our Support Team at plrm.me/Support_Plarium
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jumy
16 May, 2016, 11:55 AM UTC
yes, best solution is make 2 castle (off-def) and destroy all other ppl
The truth hurts
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Gadheras
16 May, 2016, 4:37 PM UTC

Alyona Kolomiitseva said:


Greetings. One of the major game features is Balance between Offense and Defense. We keep this balance in order to give our players a fair choice of their development direction. 

If you just compare Offensive and Defensive Units of the same class, you can find out that Defense is much weaker. However, it requires less Resources and has some additional Bonuses (like your Castle Defense Bonus). So if you choose your strategy wisely, you can be even more effective using Defense, than other players using Offense.


So what defensive bonus's does your much weaker DEF units recive for BG's Curious...



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Alyona Kolomiitseva
Community Manager
17 May, 2016, 12:41 PM UTC

Gadheras said:


Alyona Kolomiitseva said:


Greetings. One of the major game features is Balance between Offense and Defense. We keep this balance in order to give our players a fair choice of their development direction. 

If you just compare Offensive and Defensive Units of the same class, you can find out that Defense is much weaker. However, it requires less Resources and has some additional Bonuses (like your Castle Defense Bonus). So if you choose your strategy wisely, you can be even more effective using Defense, than other players using Offense.


So what defensive bonus's does your much weaker DEF units recive for BG's Curious...



Straight comparison is not accurate here actually as Defensive Units cost you much less than Offensive ones.


Plarium Community Manager. Please note that I will be unable to respond to your private messages, review your tickets, or check your account information. All technical issues should be directed to our Support Team at plrm.me/Support_Plarium
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Gadheras
17 May, 2016, 6:21 PM UTC

Alyona Kolomiitseva said:


Gadheras said:


Alyona Kolomiitseva said:


Greetings. One of the major game features is Balance between Offense and Defense. We keep this balance in order to give our players a fair choice of their development direction. 

If you just compare Offensive and Defensive Units of the same class, you can find out that Defense is much weaker. However, it requires less Resources and has some additional Bonuses (like your Castle Defense Bonus). So if you choose your strategy wisely, you can be even more effective using Defense, than other players using Offense.


So what defensive bonus's does your much weaker DEF units recive for BG's Curious...



Straight comparison is not accurate here actually as Defensive Units cost you much less than Offensive ones.



Well its not like I can make 2 DEF units for the cost of 1 OFF.  Not like I I can build 2 nomads in the time to make one knight either, as example.



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cat in the hat
17 May, 2016, 9:31 PM UTC

Offense units do have more points per unit than defense. If you build fortification which you will probably need to spend money. You will have an far advantage  to offense. I think anyone who collects resources on hamlets are an idiot and looking to get killed. The game calls for strategy, this more important than tournament rewards. Unless you spend a lot of money, defense will help you grow strong in offense. If you read the tips to this link it may help you to make your decision to guide you the right way in the game.

http://plarium.com/en/mmo-tips/

 
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Gadheras
18 May, 2016, 1:19 AM UTC

tomspatchek said:


Offense units do have more points per unit than defense. If you build fortification which you will probably need to spend money. You will have an far advantage  to offense. I think anyone who collects resources on hamlets are an idiot and looking to get killed. The game calls for strategy, this more important than tournament rewards. Unless you spend a lot of money, defense will help you grow strong in offense. If you read the tips to this link it may help you to make your decision to guide you the right way in the game.

http://plarium.com/en/mmo-tips/

 

No no, I understand well that our castle walls and such give bonus to DEF units. just for BG's def units seems to have a big handicap
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Vladimir Stojanovic
18 May, 2016, 7:06 PM UTC
My Lord you need lower Defense points to bring down defense battlegound then offense one.
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djmoody
19 May, 2016, 2:43 AM UTC

Gadheras said:


tomspatchek said:


Offense units do have more points per unit than defense. If you build fortification which you will probably need to spend money. You will have an far advantage  to offense. I think anyone who collects resources on hamlets are an idiot and looking to get killed. The game calls for strategy, this more important than tournament rewards. Unless you spend a lot of money, defense will help you grow strong in offense. If you read the tips to this link it may help you to make your decision to guide you the right way in the game.

http://plarium.com/en/mmo-tips/

 

No no, I understand well that our castle walls and such give bonus to DEF units. just for BG's def units seems to have a big handicap

Actually they are by far the best units to use in BG's.


An even mix troop offence BG has a 25% bonus - will defend at 25% more than the normal base level value of the BG. This is because on defense balur troops get a x3 or x4 bonus against their specialist troop type.

Your defense in BG's on the other hand can benefit from it's strong unit type match up. With the right troop match up defending you can make the BG attack with effectively less power than its base value.. 

Also BG's are generally Maranon heavy. As BG's payout beastiary a lot you are given the right Griffen payouts to stream through BG's. On offence there is a tendency to pay you in Wyvern and Dragons which have horrible match up against the Maranon heavy defence.

The only problem is keeping enough defensive troops as they get converted to offence very quickly as the split payouts are broken (or intentionally biased to offence).

Everyone has a right to an opinion. No one has a right to their opinion being respected by other if it can't be backed up with rational and logic explanation
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irreverant
22 May, 2016, 9:33 AM UTC
I wanted to wait awhile before replying too see what was said both by players and plarium personal. I think a example is need to show what I mean I had 10 defensive troops on hamlet 5 nomads 5 barbarian was attacked by 5 necromancers, 6 warlocks and 1 knight as the player was a bit lower level I can say with some certainty that both the occult type units had no bonus. I would expect the defensive troops to lose the battle but at what loses to the attacking units ?? In this case attacker lost 1 necromancer and 1 warlock HMMMM that to me seems a little one sided. I'm not saying that the out come should be differant what I'm saying is that the cost to the attacking player should be more in line. With the example we have two forces on open field but the attacking forces seem to have a 5 to 1 advan. I'm sure I have it all wrong attacking forces should always win if odds are not 4 to 1 against them. I just wish I had know all this while I was in the military. when I frist posted I gave a general exmple of 200 def. against 100 off and off. loses at or near 10% , now I've given a exmple of near equal  number of troops with a 100% def lose and less then 20% off lose. I've seen replys about strategy but the fact is its not even close to a even match its a 4 or 5 to 1 advantage and thats fine if thats how you want it but have the stones to come out and say "that how we want it" dont blow smoke up my back side and say ohhhh it is balanced.  heck even you say stright up def. is MUCH weaker BUT HEY LIKE YOU SAID " ITS  BALANCED". what is it if def. was stronger poeple would not attack as much , there would be too much peace,maybe you make more money because people have to buy sapphire packs hell I dont know but I do know when someone pisses on my leg and says its raining. GROW THE STONES TO SAY IT THE WAY IT IS. 
zogg
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jumy
22 May, 2016, 10:02 AM UTC

the problem is that they have added all sorts of bonuses (hero fortress....) and nerfed all pay points

The truth hurts
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jumy
23 May, 2016, 2:11 PM UTC

djmoody said:


Actually they are by far the best units to use in BG's.


An even mix troop offence BG has a 25% bonus - will defend at 25% more than the normal base level value of the BG. This is because on defense balur troops get a x3 or x4 bonus against their specialist troop type.

Your defense in BG's on the other hand can benefit from it's strong unit type match up. With the right troop match up defending you can make the BG attack with effectively less power than its base value.. 

Also BG's are generally Maranon heavy. As BG's payout beastiary a lot you are given the right Griffen payouts to stream through BG's. On offence there is a tendency to pay you in Wyvern and Dragons which have horrible match up against the Maranon heavy defence.

The only problem is keeping enough defensive troops as they get converted to offence very quickly as the split payouts are broken (or intentionally biased to offence).

you can give an example in numbers?

The truth hurts
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Aaron KT3
23 May, 2016, 4:12 PM UTC

irreverant said:


I wanted to wait awhile before replying too see what was said both by players and plarium personal. I think a example is need to show what I mean I had 10 defensive troops on hamlet 5 nomads 5 barbarian was attacked by 5 necromancers, 6 warlocks and 1 knight as the player was a bit lower level I can say with some certainty that both the occult type units had no bonus. I would expect the defensive troops to lose the battle but at what loses to the attacking units ?? In this case attacker lost 1 necromancer and 1 warlock HMMMM that to me seems a little one sided. I'm not saying that the out come should be differant what I'm saying is that the cost to the attacking player should be more in line. With the example we have two forces on open field but the attacking forces seem to have a 5 to 1 advan. I'm sure I have it all wrong attacking forces should always win if odds are not 4 to 1 against them. I just wish I had know all this while I was in the military. when I frist posted I gave a general exmple of 200 def. against 100 off and off. loses at or near 10% , now I've given a exmple of near equal  number of troops with a 100% def lose and less then 20% off lose. I've seen replys about strategy but the fact is its not even close to a even match its a 4 or 5 to 1 advantage and thats fine if thats how you want it but have the stones to come out and say "that how we want it" dont blow smoke up my back side and say ohhhh it is balanced.  heck even you say stright up def. is MUCH weaker BUT HEY LIKE YOU SAID " ITS  BALANCED". what is it if def. was stronger poeple would not attack as much , there would be too much peace,maybe you make more money because people have to buy sapphire packs hell I dont know but I do know when someone pisses on my leg and says its raining. GROW THE STONES TO SAY IT THE WAY IT IS. 

You weren't attacked 1:1 (10 def units vs 11 attack units)  It was more like 5.41:1 due to the relative strength of the attacking units.


With no bonuses for either side (any available in the example were unknown) you had a defense against this particular mix of 3040 vs 16440 points.


The relative number makes no difference, just the relative strength.  Think of 10 IFV being attacked by 1 IFV, 5 Tanks & 5 Apache Helicopters.


In neither example did you ever stand a chance.  He had a better troop mix and strength.

Aaron
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mrfreezzzz
24 May, 2016, 9:14 AM UTC

irreverant said:


...I had 10 defensive troops on hamlet 5 nomads 5 barbarian was attacked by 5 necromancers, 6 warlocks and 1 knight ...

with so little def troops, you will always be wiped out. it'd take at least 500k or even 1M def to have a winning chance to hold it long enough to gather some resources. question is whether you think it's worth risking 1M of def, or not

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Callak
3 June, 2016, 2:52 AM UTC
The biggest issue is spells if anything.  If you have your troops out to defend your castle, someone can cast Wrath of Weor a few times and massacre your defense.
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Gadheras
3 June, 2016, 7:39 AM UTC

Callak said:


The biggest issue is spells if anything.  If you have your troops out to defend your castle, someone can cast Wrath of Weor a few times and massacre your defense.

Hardly, a fireball spell, does 12600 pts of damage, and a great deal of that can be negated by your walls and castle DEF. 12600 pts is like 140 upgraded paladins with some bonus. 


Just think of it as someone bying you a burger at McDonalds each time they send a fireball at you. They SPENDING MONEY on you.. you already won by default.





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Inaginni
3 June, 2016, 12:25 PM UTC

Gadheras said:


Callak said:


The biggest issue is spells if anything.  If you have your troops out to defend your castle, someone can cast Wrath of Weor a few times and massacre your defense.

Hardly, a fireball spell, does 12600 pts of damage, and a great deal of that can be negated by your walls and castle DEF. 12600 pts is like 140 upgraded paladins with some bonus. 


Just think of it as someone bying you a burger at McDonalds each time they send a fireball at you. They SPENDING MONEY on you.. you already won by default.

Iirc, your castle defense bonus does nothing against fireballs. Also, you're talking about just 1 fireball. I'm guessing that Callak is talking about stacks of 10 being sent 10 times.

Personally, I'd be happy if fireballs were lowered in strength to the level they are in Total Domination. 1260 offense instead of 12600.
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Gadheras
3 June, 2016, 1:23 PM UTC

Inaginni said:


Gadheras said:


Callak said:


The biggest issue is spells if anything.  If you have your troops out to defend your castle, someone can cast Wrath of Weor a few times and massacre your defense.

Hardly, a fireball spell, does 12600 pts of damage, and a great deal of that can be negated by your walls and castle DEF. 12600 pts is like 140 upgraded paladins with some bonus. 


Just think of it as someone bying you a burger at McDonalds each time they send a fireball at you. They SPENDING MONEY on you.. you already won by default.

Iirc, your castle defense bonus does nothing against fireballs. Also, you're talking about just 1 fireball. I'm guessing that Callak is talking about stacks of 10 being sent 10 times.

Personally, I'd be happy if fireballs were lowered in strength to the level they are in Total Domination. 1260 offense instead of 12600.

Castle defence does work against fireballs. Try hit some guy that got fully upgraded walls + castle etc. You will do very little damage from 1 fireball.

If someone send 10 fireballs at me, I send him a mail cheering for the money he spend on me. I already won.


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